Why is the most popular dance so unknown

[Lee Bartholomew]

I don't know the facts and figures. Would be good if someone could find them but I would guess that Modern Jive is one of the, if not the most, danced dance in the UK. If anything is more popular then it may be Salsa but...

Why is modern Jive so unkown amongst non dancers. If you stopped people in the street and asked them to name a type of dance you would get Salsa, Ballroom, Tango, Foxtrot, Ballet etc but very few people would say MJ. Infact it would probley only be the people who have had exposure to the classes.

Also why is MJ overlooked in the media and on programs like Strictly Come Dancing?

Maybe we should start a campain to get Modern Jive as a dance on the next Strictly.

[Astro]

It's true. If I say Modern Jive, I have to say, not the old Jive though, as they assume it's pure Jive from the 50's.

Saying Ceroc draws a blank too. In fact even I found the word hard to remember 2 months after I started at Ceroc. It's a tricky word to remember IMO. It's a brand name too, so you would think they could have come up with a better name.

Jango is dead easy to remember, even Blango as it makes sense.

[Little Monkey]

Originally Posted by Astro

Saying Ceroc draws a blank too. In fact even I found the word hard to remember 2 months after I started at Ceroc. It's a tricky word to remember IMO. It's a brand name too, so you would think they could have come up with a better name.

Jango is dead easy to remember, even Blango as it makes sense.

Another problem is that a lot of people have no idea how 'ceroc' is pronounced. Lots of non-dancers I've met who have heard of ceroc, pronounce it 'kerok', and think it's a form of salsa. They have no idea what modern jive is.

[nebula]

Or "sheroc"...

[Little Monkey]

Originally Posted by nebula

Or "sheroc"...

Yup, heard that one plenty of times, too.

[Amir]

Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew

Why is modern Jive so unkown amongst non dancers. If you stopped people in the street and asked them to name a type of dance you would get Salsa, Ballroom, Tango, Foxtrot, Ballet etc

Most of the dances you mentioned are also forms of music. Salsa, tango and foxtrot became well known because of the popular music that they represented. This is true also for hip-hop, waltz, polka, cha cha, rock n roll, all dances almost everyone has heard of, but rarely practise.

Social dances that do not share their name with a specific musical form are rarely famous. Hustle, west coast swing and ceroc share this disadvantage. They did not ride the wave of popularity by being linked to a famous style of music. It is mainly music that gets press coverage, in movies, magazines etc, and the dance lives on in public memory for as long as the music does. In fact, you don't even need a genre of music for a dance to become famous. Just one song is enough, like The Twist, Macarena, or the hokey pokey.

If a dance has a different name to it's music it is more likely to be un-famous. Most non dancers don't know what lindy hop is, even though it's music was huge at its time. But at least Lindy appears sometimes in period movies, music videos, adverts etc, which is not as true as for Ceroc.

Exceptions to the 'if it doesn't share the name it doesn't get famous' rule are dances that have been incorporated into theatre, display or show dancing. Examples include Charleston, Tap, Can Can, Breakdancing and Ballet, even though its been about 300 years since this was a 'social' dance.


Lastly, Modern Jive is not famous because it is overlooked by the media...

Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew

Also why is MJ overlooked in the media and on programs like Strictly Come Dancing?

For a full answer we would have to go through each program and explain why MJ is overlooked in that particular case.

Personally I don’t think MJ would work on SCD at all, for too many reasons to mention now. (Lack of unified rules by which to judge it, the fact that the pros hired for the series don't actually know the dance...)

Many other programes with dance exploit the fact that the dancers are either young and trendy, in great shape, do amazing dancing, or are ruthless, ambitious and wear short skirts. The average modern jive crowd doesn't fit that bill, except Andy McGregor so thats just a matter of time.

But in general, remember that MJ is not integrated with either the commercial dance world (there haven’t been Ceroc classes at places like Pineapple studios for example for a long time) or with the Ballroom World. So the non-dancing researchers or producers are unlikely to come across it in their first ports of call.

Second, and probably most importantly, what in the modern jive world do you think would make good TV - interesting to non modern jive dancers too? When a modern jive dancer or organiser calls a producer to get exposure, what do they have to offer that isn't better served up by other dance scenes?

Lastly, if I think about it,most dance scenes feel like they are overlooked or wildly mis-represented by the media. So its not surprising that MJ, which isn’t even a famous dance, (for reasons mentioned in first half of post) is even more overlooked than most.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew

I don't know the facts and figures. Would be good if someone could find them but I would guess that Modern Jive is one of the, if not the most, danced dance in the UK. If anything is more popular then it may be Salsa but...

I'd be very surprised if it were as you suggest. We're all steeped in MJ - we know where to look for it, and it seems to be going on everywhere to us... but if I look for local dance resources, I can find ballroom schools everywhere, salsa everywhere, even linedance clubs everywhere - MJ is, comparatively speaking, in the minority - certainly in my neck of the woods - and I doubt that this is unusual.

Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew

Also why is MJ overlooked in the media and on programs like Strictly Come Dancing?

I think some of the judges commends on SDF might give you at least part of the answer (they weren't fans)

[StokeBloke]

Just tell them that you do West Coast Swing. If they ask for clarification just say it's a derivative of Brazilian Polka with a slotted nature instead of the promenade end hops more common in Latin as it hails from the West Bank of the Euphrates River. Most non-dancers switch off after asking out of sheer politeness "ohh really... so what type of dancing do you do?" any how.

Have you ever caught a work mate standing behind you making the famous hand chopping motion across the throat at the new person in the office as they say to you at the water cooler "I hear you dance"? No. Me either, I am too busy boring the bejasus out of the new guy about why a semi-circle to the left is pure ridiculousness when it comes to leading a dance partner to look over my shoulder and see the sobs of pain...

[Lory]

Originally Posted by Amir

hokey pokey.

You learn something everyday, I always thought this dance was called the Hokey Kokey

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Lory

You learn something everyday, I always thought this dance was called the Hokey Kokey

It's got different names in different countries. In particular, it is known as the Hokey Pokey in the US.

[Lory]

Originally Posted by ducasi

It's got different names in different countries. In particular, it is known as the Hokey Pokey in the US.

Thanks for that, I suddenly got very worried I'd been singing the wrong words all my life!

[Cruella]

Originally Posted by Lory

You learn something everyday, I always thought this dance was called the Hokey Kokey

Originally Posted by ducasi

It's got different names in different countries. In particular, it is known as the Hokey Pokey in the US.

Me too Lory, I just presumed it was Amir's own, private, partner dance.

[Steven666]

Very true. However mention the name Ceroc instead of "Modern Jive" then you'll get "oh, I know someone who did that once".

But say "Modern Jive" to some people who goto Ceroc venues and they still won't have a clue what your talking about.

[Daisy Chain]

Originally Posted by StokeBloke

Have you ever caught a work mate standing behind you making the famous hand chopping motion across the throat at the new person in the office as they say to you at the water cooler "I hear you dance"? ...

I was discussing freestyles in the kitchen at work when the new boss came in half way through the conversation to hear me saying "Oh, I like to get through as many different men in a night as possible"

Daisy

(A Promiscuous Little Flower)

[Twirly]

Originally Posted by StokeBloke

Have you ever caught a work mate standing behind you making the famous hand chopping motion across the throat at the new person in the office as they say to you at the water cooler "I hear you dance"? No. Me either, I am too busy boring the bejasus out of the new guy about why a semi-circle to the left is pure ridiculousness when it comes to leading a dance partner to look over my shoulder and see the sobs of pain...

Funnily enough, I had the opposite experience – I actually had colleagues coming up to me and saying “I hear you dance – is it Ceroc?” Admittedly one had done it for a while whilst at college 10 or 15 years previously (but has since got married, had children and a career – with which dancing isn’t compatible apparently) and the other had done one class and was keen to give it another go (apparently the girlfriend was a keen dancer, if a bit of a heavy follow, and he wanted to surprise her). Wound up at someone’s leaving drinks talking ad infinitum about it, and even showing some moves. Sadly, the day I arranged to take J to a class, the markets crashed and he’s not come up for air since

As for “brand awareness”, I was aware of the name “Ceroc” when I first started, although I’m not sure I could have told you exactly what it was. “Some sort of jive, came from France” would probably have been my answer. I’d never heard of Modern Jive. I was aware of jive, jitterbug and lindy hop too, probably more so, and from childhood. But then I’ve always loved dance, even if I haven’t always done as much as I’d have liked (wish I’d found MJ years ago).

I wonder why Ceroc don’t have a listing in Time Out Whilst I came across Ceroc by chance through a friend, had I been looking to start a class, that is one place I would have checked.

[Lost Leader]

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

I was discussing freestyles in the kitchen at work when the new boss came in half way through the conversation to hear me saying "Oh, I like to get through as many different men in a night as possible"

Daisy

(A Promiscuous Little Flower)

[Astro]

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

I was discussing freestyles in the kitchen at work when the new boss came in half way through the conversation to hear me saying "Oh, I like to get through as many different men in a night as possible"

Daisy

(A Promiscuous Little Flower)

In and out more times that the Hokey Kokey.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew

I would guess that Modern Jive is one of the, if not the most, danced dance in the UK.

I would guess "clubbing".