Ceroc branches out into Ballroom

[El Salsero Gringo]

The new big thing from Ceroc Enterprises?

http://www.strictlynosequins.com/index2.html

Begins Tuesday 1 March at Ashtons.
Who's up for giving it a go?

[Lou]

Kewl. But what are "Nose Quins"? Is it something like Joey's (from Friends) "Identical Hand Twins"?

[Minnie M]

Fantastic - and about time too - really missed the old days of Mike & Linda's Stictly Ballroom I wish them all the very very best

If anyone has seen Mike & Linda dance latin you will be amazed

[El Salsero Gringo]

I told my Ballroom teacher about this today, and said that if it was successful that Ceroc would be franchising it all across London and the UK. She gave me *such* a filthy look!

I suppose I really ought not to tease, but I just couldn't resist this time.

[Almost an Angel]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

The new big thing from Ceroc Enterprises?

http://www.strictlynosequins.com/index2.html

Begins Tuesday 1 March at Ashtons.
Who's up for giving it a go?

Don't know about Ceroc Enterprises but Ceroc Surrey has been running Ballroom Classes since last September at Godalming with the fabulous Kylie Jones of SCD fame.

[Divissima]

I think this is a fabulous idea - I've been dabbling on the fringes of ballroom and latin american off and on for a few years now. At the moment I'm taking private lessons and just love it.... but there are so few places to go to dance socially. I think that learning in the ceroc format with freestyle included at the end of the evening is just the thing. I intend to head along....

[bigdjiver]

I worry that it will divert effort and resources from Ceroc.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

I told my Ballroom teacher about this today, and said that if it was successful that Ceroc would be franchising it all across London and the UK. She gave me *such* a filthy look!

I suppose I really ought not to tease, but I just couldn't resist this time.

Ceroc Hamilton in NZ actually started teaching Ballroom and Latin about a year ago, I think. Not that the quality is very high, neither in the so-called Salsa and Rueda they teach (because they don't get the only persons in town that can actually do it to teach). However, the sheer number of people from Ceroc actually mae them the biggest studio in town.

[Banana Man]

Will be interesting to see how many of MJ's closet (and not so closet) ballroom/latin dancers come out (to play).

[frodo]

Originally Posted by Minnie M

Fantastic - and about time too

It would be so nice to have the option in London. I hope the demand is there to keep it running - and extend it. Even better would be Ceroc style freestyle nights.

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

I told my Ballroom teacher about this today, and said that if it was successful that Ceroc would be franchising it all across London and the UK. She gave me *such* a filthy look!

It may well not be a bad thing for existing Latin & Ballroom teachers ? If lots of people start with Ceroc some of them may well want to take private lessons with other teachers.

[Debster]

Is that King Groovy Dancer on the home page graphic?
(Biggest smile in the south)

[Anita]

This could be interesting - at least it will give the traditional ballroom society's a run for their money. I think they need some competition. Not sure how ballroom could be taught in a Ceroc format because of the technical aspects. Ballroom doesn't look good unless you do get the technique..... I know, I've done 24 years worth and I'm still learning

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Anita

Ballroom doesn't look good unless you do get the technique..... I know, I've done 24 years worth and I'm still learning

Neither does Ceroc/MJ if we are totally honest. A couple of woohoo moves done poorly will not impress anybody.

From my experience with Ceroc clubs teaching ballroom the result is a 'social' form of it, which does neither look good nor is it compatible. The people who taught it taught routines, which is common practice in ballroom, no doubt. But it defeats the purpose of trying to make it more a social dance than it usually is.

I'll be curious to see how it works out over here.

You are right ab out the technique, it is a never-ending story but I quite like that. Instead of focussing on many moves you concentrate oon doing things 'right'.

[Debster]

Originally Posted by Andreas

...From my experience with Ceroc clubs teaching ballroom the result is a 'social' form of it, which does neither look good nor is it compatible. The people who taught it taught routines, which is common practice in ballroom, no doubt. But it defeats the purpose of trying to make it more a social dance than it usually is.
...

Social ballroom doesn't require routines (and in fact is better without) and I despair when it is taught that way as it does defeat the ultimate purpose. (e.g. my husband seems to only be able to turn in one direction in waltz thanks to the routine he was taught which can get frustrating for us both on a social floor)

However routines seem to be faster to learn... in today's 'instant' society, that's generally what the customer wants.

Does it matter if social dancing doesn't look good? OK, so looking at people dancing Ceroc put me off it for a long time too, but social ballroom doesn't look any worse. Having fun is the main aim, not putting on a show.

[El Salsero Gringo]

From what I've learned over the last few weeks of Ballroom lessons, the lead is very different from MJ, and harder to learn - less arms, more body, stronger 'connection'. (*) Seeing as most of the flak aimed at Ceroc from outside concerns the teaching of lead/follow it will be interesting to see whether and how the 'average' Ceroc dancer who takes up ballroom learns this skill, and whether it improves their MJ.

My hope is that routines are *not* taught - very much as they aren't in Ceroc - and that social freestyling becomes the norm. I would rather work towards being an 'average' ballroom dancer who can go out on a dance-floor and interpret the music with a wide range of partners than be drilled to be competition perfect in a set-piece routine with just one partner.

I also agree that it will be good for other Ballroom teachers, since some who try Ballroom "the Ceroc way" will be sufficiently interested to work on finer points of technique to go to have lessons elsewhere in smaller groups, or on a one-to-one basis.

(*) I am keenly aware of opening myself up to attack on the grounds of misrepresenting the Ceroc lead, but that's a whole other issue.

[frodo]

Originally Posted by Debster

Social ballroom doesn't require routines (and in fact is better without) and I despair when it is taught that way as it does defeat the ultimate purpose.

Maybe routines for starting out are a necessary crutch ( more so than MJ ? ). Perhaps the problem comes when routines are not phased out quickly enough

Originally Posted by Debster

(e.g. my husband seems to only be able to turn in one direction in waltz thanks to the routine he was taught which can get frustrating for us both on a social floor)

You can turn both ways

[El Salsero Gringo]

From the perspective of a novice Ballroom dancer and a relatively experienced MJ dancer it is easier to put moves together in MJ. The benefit of starting all moves with a step back is that - in theory at least - pretty much any move can follow any other. Clearly there are going to be sequences of consecutive turns that are uncomfortable and best not led, but to a first approximation this is the case.

However I don't think the same is true in Ballroom where what moves are comfortable to execute seems to depend very much on what you did last, where your and your parners feet are, where you balance is and which direction you are moving at the time. (Me, to Ballroom teacher: "so how would I lead move XXX from here?" - She, to me, making funny face: "A good dancer would never dream of attempting to lead move XXX from here!")

That means that strings of moves that work well together are going to be more prevalent in Ballroom at all levels, and only the more expert dancers are going to be adept enough to choreograph on the fly.

Comments from experienced Ballroom dancers as to whether this is the case would be much appreciated.

[Anita]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

From the perspective of a novice Ballroom dancer and a relatively experienced MJ dancer it is easier to put moves together in MJ. The benefit of starting all moves with a step back is that - in theory at least - pretty much any move can follow any other. Clearly there are going to be sequences of consecutive turns that are uncomfortable and best not led, but to a first approximation this is the case.

However I don't think the same is true in Ballroom where what moves are comfortable to execute seems to depend very much on what you did last, where your and your parners feet are, where you balance is and which direction you are moving at the time. (Me, to Ballroom teacher: "so how would I lead move XXX from here?" - She, to me, making funny face: "A good dancer would never dream of attempting to lead move XXX from here!")

That means that strings of moves that work well together are going to be more prevalent in Ballroom at all levels, and only the more expert dancers are going to be adept enough to choreograph on the fly.

Comments from experienced Ballroom dancers as to whether this is the case would be much appreciated.

I feel that it is true you do have to be more careful about the sequences of steps you use in ballroom and latin in comparison to MJ. For example, a ballroom teacher will learn how much rotation is required within a step using eighths of a turn i.e. you would turn three eighths of a turn (135 degrees) so you can see how certain steps would not link together if you facing the wrong way. Also body alignment with your partner can be important in the ballroom dances.

Interesting comment about the lead in ballroom/latin. I recent went to a MJ class were the teacher suggested that the man lead a step using his left arm when the using a ballroom type hold. The result was the whole class performing a kind of arm wrestle. Using the body and the right arm as well as the left would probably have been better. Maybe that is to much to put across in a class, or do we under estimated peoples ability to learn?

Sorry that was all a bit dull.

[bobgadjet]

If this aspect of teaching dance has already been proven by other ceroc classes, then maybe we should all wait and see what is going to be done, and how, at Ashtons, before going any further with the WHY's and WHYNOT's .

Also, we must all get back to the idea said before in this thread, dancing is supposed to be FUN.

If one is inclined to WANT to dance to a professional standard one would already have booked into a more specialist dance school.

Maybe this will be the incentive for mere beginners to get on the rung of the ladder to more specialist dance schools.

Either way I see it as a way of furthering ANY dance enthusiast, ballroom or otherwise.

Also, if it is based at the Ceroc membership, friends, and/or family then maybe, just maybe, the teaching of a better way of "dancing" will be better for the MJ dancefloor.

Presumably the "leaders" will learn better how to lead.Followers, i'm sure, will feel better.
Also footwork will become second nature.

I learned about 7 years of WCS BEFORE MJ, and I was told on my first lesson I didn't belong in a beginners class. I stayed with the beginners more as a social thing than a dance thing.

I now want to learn more BASIC forms of dance, and I see this as just the step I need so i can "enjoy" an evenings varied dance night.

When I joined in the Ceroc thing, I started to really have FUN. I see it only getting better.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

(*) I am keenly aware of opening myself up to attack on the grounds of misrepresenting the Ceroc lead, but that's a whole other issue.

There is a significant difference between the way lead and follow is taught in Ceroc and some other MJ classes. Having done ballroom in the past I find great similarities between the way some MJ classes and ballroom classes teach the lead and follow aspects of dance. The difference is in what you do with your right hand on your partners back, in ballroom you're taught to use the upper back to lead, in Ceroc (as far as I've seen) you may use your right hand from time to time to lead a spin on your partners hip, but never really get taught to lead moves using pressure on the back.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with either approach. They're just different - although personally I prefer the ballroom type lead and follow.