Jango - how's it work then?

[David Bailey]

Despite my best entreaties, no-one seemed to want to discuss Jango in the "Argentinian Tango input into MJ?" thread ( ), so I thought I'd create a separate thread.

I've been doing a few Argentinian Tango lessons over the last few months, and I've definitely found it's made a difference to my MJ - for example, in a pause or a slow section, I usually try to do something which I hope looks tango-y, rather than a simple pause / dip / wiggle or whatever.

So, can someone who's done the classes tell me, what exactly is the theory behind the fusion of the two styles, and can people give any similar ideas as to how this has helped / changed their MJ style?

Also, I'm thinking of ordering the Jango DVD to help me with ideas about moving this along, and I wondered has anyone seen this, and did it help them?

Or should I just carry on with AT and work out my own style for fusion?

Oh, and please don't say "Come to Jango classes" then, as there's no way I'm schlepping all the way back across from North to West London, an hour after I've schlepped from West to North London after work.

[Katie]

I have attended a few Jango classes and a few Argentine tango classes. Jango is pitched quite high, ie, the teachers assume you have some dance background from Jive, and thus incorporate an AT move into a MJ move, for example ocho's or leg flicks prepped from a first move. Whereas, the AT classes assume you have no prior knowledge or experience (obviously ) and teach it as 'pure'. I prefer the Jango classes because i'm able to learn the 'attractive' or signature moves straight away, unlike the AT classes where I have to be more patient at being a beginner again, although I hope to persevere and learn the fundamentals of AT.

Hope that helps, however, somebody else may be able to give a better description as I haven't attended classes for a while.

I would also recommend the DVD, it's very well produced, and there are some hilarious scenes by Amir, especially the banana one!

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Oh, and please don't say "Come to Jango classes" then, as there's no way I'm schlepping all the way back across from North to West London, an hour after I've schlepped from West to North London after work.

Why don't you put a fresh top and a toothbrush in your briefcase, and stay in West London for the duration??

Work a bit late, scrub up a bit... then party on down....

What IS the problem? Some of us schlepp from West to North and back once in a while...

Anyone would think you had a reason for not actually trying Jango out

[Mary]

With Amir's 'fusion' he has worked out what he calls' 'gateway' moves where you can seamlessly incorporate the crossover from a MJ move and meld it onto some Tango stuff.

I would say the Jango DVD is worth getting even if you don't go to Amir or Kate's classes as it is quite a comprehensive workshop in itself and covers a fair bit of detail very clearly and in an accessible manner. And some useful excercises to do (if I remember rightly).

There's also a couple of performance routines which are pretty cool to watch.

Hope this is useful info.

btw I could be working just about anywhere but I take my bag of stuff and get washed and changed when I get there as I rarely have time to go home and get changed and get to Hammersmith. I make the effort because I find Mondays at Kent House a good way to chill out. But don't let me persuade you. I'm sure you'd hate it.

M

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

What IS the problem? Some of us schlepp from West to North and back once in a while..

There's always one... Some of us have commitments, OK? And that's all I'm going to say about my private life.

Any chance of answering any of the questions, or are we descending to abuse already?

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Mary

With Amir's 'fusion' he has worked out what he calls' 'gateway' moves where you can seamlessly incorporate the crossover from a MJ move and meld it onto some Tango stuff.

Interesting. So would you say that it's more at a move level than a "style" level from your point-of-view? E.g. it's "Here's how you can lead an ocho from a first move", rather than "Here's how to stand and walk"?

Basically, what I want to know is, would I be confused by trying to learn Jango style, or is it a short cut? In other words, does it help or hinder learning Argentinian Tango?

Originally Posted by Katie

I would also recommend the DVD, it's very well produced, and there are some hilarious scenes by Amir, especially the banana one!

Thanks - I think I'll give it a go

Originally Posted by Mary

I make the effort because I find Mondays at Kent House a good way to chill out. But don't let me persuade you. I'm sure you'd hate it.

I have strong opinions about certain aspects of the scene there, it's true, mainly developed through reading certain threads. But we're not in the "Social Events" section, we're in the "let's talk about dance" section, so I'd like to, you know, talk about dance. Call me crazy on that one...

[Feelingpink]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

..I have strong opinions about certain aspects of the scene there, it's true, mainly developed through reading certain threads. But we're not in the "Social Events" section, we're in the "let's talk about dance" section, so I'd like to, you know, talk about dance. Call me crazy on that one...

Originally Posted by DavidJames

...Oh, and please don't say "Come to Jango classes" then, as there's no way I'm schlepping all the way back across from North to West London, an hour after I've schlepped from West to North London after work.

OK, I wouldn't expect you to go to Jango. Just because some of us go to West London from East London ... well, never mind.

My take on Jango is that it isn't just a "pure" partnering of Tango and MJ on its own. Katie is right in that Kate & Will's lessons expect prior knowledge of MJ and there are tango or tango style moves incorporated. But the lesson isn't the entire evening: the rest of the night is comprised of freestyle with a group of dancers who like to be creative with their lead and follow using (TWK's) eclectic music. Generally, if you have an open mind (in a dance sense), it's your home. It's why if people say someone dances in a "Jango" style, I don't always expect to see MJ/AT fusion - it's more an eclectic, playful attitude or style that has grown at Jango nights/T-Jives.

If you find that you have "strong opinions" about the Jango "scene" despite never having been, then you deserve my compassion.

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Any chance of answering any of the questions, or are we descending to abuse already?

Erm, I don't see any abuse on this thread. Is there a need for this?

I like Jango mostly for the freestyle. It's one of the few venues where I like the music. Fortunately for me, quite a lot of my favourite dancers seem to like the music there too, so I get to dance with them, which is cool.

With regard to:

So, can someone who's done the classes tell me, what exactly is the theory behind the fusion of the two styles, and can people give any similar ideas as to how this has helped / changed their MJ style?

I've done some of the classes. They're a bit of a mixture. The straight MJ moves are pretty accessible, easy even, if you've been around for a while, and the ones with the Tango techniques woven in are difficult if you're not used to that sort of thing, which I'm not.

I would say that the fusion as taught in Will and Kate's classes is much more about being able to use an exit from a normal MJ move as the entry to a more Tango-y move, and vice versa, than about a Tango style added to otherwise normal MJ moves.

So it might be a normal MJ move to start with, followed by a lead into some ochos for instance (they also teach much more difficult things than ochos sometimes, but I don't know what any of them are called), finishing with a first move exit and then continuing into another normal MJ move.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Feelingpink

OK, I wouldn't expect you to go to Jango. Just because some of us go to West London from East London ... well, never mind.

Do you do the classes then? 'Coz it doesn't sound like many people actually, you know, learn this stuff at the moment...

Originally Posted by Feelingpink

If you find that you have "strong opinions" about the Jango "scene" despite never having been, then you deserve my compassion.

It's amazing how I manage to somehow still survive really isn't it? And amazing that I don't feel an overwhelming urge to dash over there, despite the warm and welcoming comments from people... OK, OK, I'm very much trying to keep talking about dancing here - I understood that was something we haven't been doing enough of recently on this forum. Perhaps bitching is easier.

But, to clarify, I believe JonD gave the definitive definition of "how AT can help MJ" in this post, where he talked about the benefits in terms of connection, lead/follow, presentation, leading by intention, balance / weight distribution, quality of movement and musicality. I've bookmarked that post, it's my bible at the moment.

(I also note zero contributions to that thread by any Jango-ite, which is why I started this one)

But, once again, what I want to know is if people think that it'll be useful for my dance development, given the context I've outlined (long-term MJ-er and salsa-er, beginner AT-er), to try Jango, or to keep at straight AT, or to try both?

What I really really really don't want to know is people's opinions about where and when I should dance. Which is why I put that caveat in my first post, much good it did me.

[David Bailey]

Information! Halle-frickin-lujah!

Originally Posted by ChrisA

I would say that the fusion as taught in Will and Kate's classes is much more about being able to use an exit from a normal MJ move as the entry to a more Tango-y move, and vice versa, than about a Tango style added to otherwise normal MJ moves.

So it might be a normal MJ move to start with, followed by a lead into some ochos for instance (they also teach much more difficult things than ochos sometimes, but I don't know what any of them are called), finishing with a first move exit and then continuing into another normal MJ move.

That's kind of what I figured - it's move fusion rather than style fusion. OK, I think I'll stick with AT for the moment, I'll try to get a bit more of a solid background in that, then I'll see. I still think I'll order the DVD though, hopefully I can pick stuff up from that. A compromise, in other words.

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

What I really really really don't want to know is people's opinions about where and when I should dance.

I think you'll find not many people have an opinion about where you should dance.

It's the hint of "don't confuse me with actual facts, my mind is made up" that comes across whenever you insist that you won't actually go there, and risk basing these "strong opinions" you say you have on actual experience.

But as far as your question is concerned, I don't think it's really possible to answer it without more information.

When you say

what I want to know is if people think that it'll be useful for my dance development

, I think it depends on a lot of things.

It depends for instance on how good your current tango venue is. If the teaching there is very good, I'd be inclined to learn tango technique there, properly and in a concentrated way. It would certainly make the tango moves that Will and Kate teach a lot easier, simply from the extra exposure as well as anything else. If it isn't (and one tango lesson I did once was dreadful, and I get a lot more out of W&K's classes than on that occasion), then maybe it's not such a good idea.

It also depends, I'd say, on what you want out of an evening - which is why I don't think you can really separate out the "talk about dance" from the "social event" aspects. If you want a mixture of interesting music, and dancers with an experimental attitude where you can try things out, play, make mistakes without fear of censure, coupled with some teaching that mixes easy stuff with difficult stuff, then Jango would be right up your street.

But if it's any indication of anything, I'm thinking of giving Tango a proper go sometime soon if I can find somewhere not too far away. The taster you get at Jango isn't enough for me, nice though it is, and I never feel I have enough of a handle to do it well afterwards.

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Do you do the classes then? 'Coz it doesn't sound like many people actually, you know, learn this stuff at the moment...

I travel to Hammersmith every week to do the Jango classes DJ and I believe that I have learnt some stuff from going - Doesn't it show in my dancing??

IMHO I think that since starting Jango, I have learnt to listen to the music much more and be much more aware of the style and breaks in the songs, which allows me to be more individual in my dancing. The type of moves that are taught in Jango can be quite easily adaptable into MJ and look great but I do find the classes can be a challenge , which is a good thing!!

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

It also depends, I'd say, on what you want out of an evening - which is why I don't think you can really separate out the "talk about dance" from the "social event" aspects.

Hmmm, you know what? I think this is where I'm getting confused.

I think (or thought, up until now) of Jango as a dance form, but it sounds like everyone else thinks of it as "The stuff that happens on Monday nights at Kent House". Whereas people can discuss salsa, WCS, MJ, AT, etc, without reference to "where it happens", it doesn't seem to be possible to do so with Jango...

Which may explain why I get a deafening silence whenever I ask questions about "Jango the dance", and "How to merge MJ and Tango". Does that make sense?

If not, then I'd really like to know more about the dance - ideally, with reference to JonD's excellent post - has anyone even read this?

Originally Posted by ChrisA

If you want a mixture of interesting music, and dancers with an experimental attitude where you can try things out, play, make mistakes without fear of censure, coupled with some teaching that mixes easy stuff with difficult stuff, then Jango would be right up your street.

Not really, sounds too much like hard work

What I want is to learn AT, and see how that works with MJ, and I foolishly thought I could take a shortcut by learning Jango. But it sounds like "learning Jango" doesn't really make sense.

I think definitely sticking to Tango is the route, I like my Tango teacher.

[JonD]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I believe JonD gave the definitive definition of "how AT can help MJ"

I blush! But re-reading that post I think it does sum up pretty accurately what AT has brought to my MJ.

I've never been to Jango at Kent House but I have tried, unsuccessfully so far, to arrange business meetings in London on a Monday and Tuesday so that I can. I live in Exeter so it'd be a bit of a trek on a school night! From what I hear about the music and the dancers, it sounds like I'd love it.

My only exposure to Jango was Amir's workshop at Bognor in Jan 05 which I enjoyed. With such limited experience I'm not sure how much I can offer to this thread but I'll make some comments anyway! I felt Jango was very much "moves" based and concentrated on techniques which allow you to get from MJ to AT "shapes" easily. Obviously, if you want to create these "shapes" accurately then you need to learn some technique - there's a vast difference between a good ocho and a clumsy one (my backward ochos are an embarrassment at the moment). However, if you tried to lead an "opposite feet lunge" in AT using the technique shown by Amir I think you'd be accused of "rowing" - that is using your arms to shove your partner to where you want them rather than leading with your body and position. That's only to be expected as Jango is teaching MJ dancers to use the tools they already have to create particular shapes rather than trying to teach them AT. Jango is a fusion, not a dance in it's own right - although I guess it might become one.

The main effect, for Julie and I, was to teach us to get from MJ to AT and back more fluently than we had been. It also encouraged us to be more "experimental" in the transitions and we now find ourselves switching from one style to the other quite frequently (and sometimes during the most inappropriate tracks). The DVD is well worth having for this element alone - it is both useful and entertaining. Jango also opened my eyes to more possibilities in MJ moves; I can now see that a particular weight shift may give me the opportunity to lead a pivot or turn which I wouldn't have otherwise considered.

What I want is to learn AT, and see how that works with MJ, and I foolishly thought I could take a shortcut by learning Jango. But it sounds like "learning Jango" doesn't really make sense.
I think definitely sticking to Tango is the route, I like my Tango teacher.

Your AT teacher sounds like a star - the amount you covered in 3 months was amazing. Definitely stay with her! However, Jango does provide a shortcut to working out how to incorporate AT into MJ so I'd commend it on that basis: when the music cries out to you to lead an ocho, a lapis or something it's damn frustrating if you can't! Equally, I'd encourage the Jango dancers to give AT a try (but find a good teacher, like David's) - it'll give you a whole new perspective on the "shapes" you've been using.

I will get to Monday night Jango soon!

[ducasi]

I've never been to Jango (the night), but I have experienced a weekend of Amir's workshops, including one on Jango (the dance). Plus I have a copy of the DVD.

What I can say is that that weekend of workshops changed my style of dancing significantly. I wouldn't claim I can do Tango or Jango, but I think I may have picked up some of the attitude that goes with it. Whatever it did, it did me good.

Like other people, I would also recommend the DVD. It gives you a flavour of what it's all about and shows shows you some of the tango-esque moves which Jango incorporates. In it Amir talks about further DVDs which will take the dance further, so I guess this DVD could be called "Jango for Beginners".

I haven't had a chance to go through it all, but what I have seen has been informative and entertaining.

As I have no access to Jango in these parts, it has made me more keen to find some AT classes in Glasgow which will hopefully teach me both AT, plus give me extra style for my MJ.

Hope this helps.

[Feelingpink]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Do you do the classes then? 'Coz it doesn't sound like many people actually, you know, learn this stuff at the moment...

When I go to Jango, I usually do Will & Kate's fab classes. This hasn't been much recently, because I'm not doing much MJ, however. And yes, lots of people "learn this stuff".

Originally Posted by DavidJames

But, to clarify, I believe JonD gave the definitive definition of "how AT can help MJ" in this post, where he talked about the benefits in terms of connection, lead/follow, presentation, leading by intention, balance / weight distribution, quality of movement and musicality. I've bookmarked that post, it's my bible at the moment.

(I also note zero contributions to that thread by any Jango-ite, which is why I started this one)

To be fair, the post asked for contributions from people who had done AT - not people who had done a fusion.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

But, once again, what I want to know is if people think that it'll be useful for my dance development, given the context I've outlined (long-term MJ-er and salsa-er, beginner AT-er), to try Jango, or to keep at straight AT, or to try both?

What I really really really don't want to know is people's opinions about where and when I should dance. Which is why I put that caveat in my first post, much good it did me.

ChrisA probably answered the first part of this fairly well. What I'm interested to know is that when you do have another few months of AT under your belt and are looking for partners who can follow your fusion lead, where exactly are you going to find them?