MJ input into Argentinian Tango

[David Bailey]

Inspired by this post, I thought I'd raise the question, for the Tango-ers out there: have you imported anything from your MJ into your Tango dancing?

I've found that almost all the stuff I learnt from MJ was, err, non-applicable to Tango dancing. However, there wera a few things I did manage to use:
- Music interpretation: MJ does allow this, and AT is so interpretive, this helps me; if I go wrong, I won't panic too much, I know I can pick it up and start again
- Dancing to the beat; the varied nature of MJ music teaches you to be able to dance at different tempos, and to find the beat, so that helps me a little with AT

I can't think of anything else - any other techniques? (This may be a short thread )

Admittedly, I could probably say the same about moving from most dance styles to AT - but if it's any consolation, I could use absolutely nothing from salsa - in fact, salsa style is actually a hindrance to AT, all that wiggling is extremely bad form.

[Lynn]

I don't know about direct MJ input into Tango (partly because my Tango experience is to date extremely limited) but I think through MJ I have learned (hopefully) some principles of dance that will make it easier to learn AT than if I was starting AT having had no dance experience at all.

It will be interesting to see at the AT class in Belfast (which although it says 'no experience required' also mentions this is a way to 'take your partner dancing to the next level', so presume that many of those attending will have done some form of partner dance before) if people's respective backgrounds in MJ (me and perhaps one guy), salsa and ballroom will make any difference to how they learn AT.

[philsmove]

Many beginners in MJ have absolutely no previous, partner dancing experience
This is not the case at my AT class
Most of the AT beginners have done other forms of dancing
I don’t think I could have started AT without previous dance experience
AT Beginners with no previous dance experience seem to leave after a few classes

The main contribution MJ has given me is the confidence to “invade” my partners “personal space”

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by philsmove

Most of the AT beginners have done other forms of dancing

I found that in my AT class too. OK, we were all AT beginners - especially some guy called Weginald or something (but he b*ggered off on holiday half-way through) - but we all seemed relatively OK at dancing, certainly very few total dance novices there.

Does anyone learn AT from scratch, or is it something you need to work up to?

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by philsmove

The main contribution MJ has given me is the confidence to “invade” my partners “personal space”

That's a good point, I remember the first time someone danced in a close hold in MJ I was very taken aback - got used to it worryingly fast though!

[Amir]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I thought I'd raise the question, for the Tango-ers out there: have you imported anything from your MJ into your Tango dancing?

In Buenos Aires I saw several 'Nuevo Tango' classes and clubs where the embrace is very open, and dancers will lead occasional baskets, returns and other simple moves that you can find in modern jive, but in a tango frame work. I doubt any of them had ever seen modern jive, but the similarities are interesting nonetheless. I think if you were to take up this style of nuevo-tango the sense of freedom in modern jive would open up more possibilities for you.

I would have to agree that there is very little you can transfer from modern jive to pure social danced tango. Except, as someone mentioned, the confidence you get from having done some partnered dancing.

Hmm. Looks like this thread may not last very long. Have to think of something controversial to say…

Is Ceroc forcing price rises at tango which is forcing hotshots to semi circle the wrong way at clichuey venues? If so then the C-list teachers are all wearing the wrong shoes when they get their friends to advertise for them on the forum that they are coming to a venue near you to bounce their hands as their seduction technique to pull all the women. Obviously, they should be forced to move up a level in competitions, and be made to dance with beginners. Hipsters. Sleazy Men. Almost anything Gus posts.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Amir

Is Ceroc forcing price rises at tango which is forcing hotshots to semi circle the wrong way at clichuey venues? If so then the C-list teachers are all wearing the wrong shoes when they get their friends to advertise for them on the forum that they are coming to a venue near you to bounce their hands as their seduction technique to pull all the women. Obviously, they should be forced to move up a level in competitions, and be made to dance with beginners. Hipsters. Sleazy Men. Almost anything Gus posts.

Funniest post of the year

[Whitebeard]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Funniest post of the year

Yeah, wee hah, clappety, clappety, mucho agreement. But the year is yet young; plenty of time to try for one better.

Fear not the possibility of rejection
Hone each and every move to perfection.
I'd love to announce,
There'd be no more bounce,
To cite as good reason for such negative selection.

[JonD]

Originally Posted by Amir

{tee hee}

That's a difficult one to follow!

Originally Posted by philsmove

I don’t think I could have started AT without previous dance experience

Abso-bl**dy-lutely! I'd have run a mile from my first AT class if I hadn't had the confidence I'd gained from 3 years of MJ. Confidence is the biggest thing I've taken from MJ to AT - I'm confident that I can learn to dance so, even when AT has been frustrating and I've felt like a complete clod I've had the belief that I can and will get better.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

- Dancing to the beat; the varied nature of MJ music teaches you to be able to dance at different tempos

Again, I agree. It may be part of the confidence thing, but I definitely feel that "playing" with the music in MJ has helped my ability to do the same in AT.

Does anyone learn AT from scratch, or is it something you need to work up to?

Most of the people I know who've stuck at AT have some previous dance experience of some sort. However, I was at the El Corte New Year's Tango Marathon in Nijmegen over the weekend and stayed with a guy who had never danced before taking up AT 3 years ago. We met H & K at Frayssinette 2 years ago - K, like so many women, has danced throughout her life but H had never done anything. I'd say that, up until last summer, his dancing was "heavier" than mine - more mechanical and, somehow ponderous - but I hate to admit that he's now overtaken me. His dancing this weekend was really good. So it is possible to start with AT although it must be horribly difficult. It helps that H lives 400 metres from what seems to be the best AT venue in Europe and has been taught by Eric Jeurissen from day one.

The Marathon was just brilliant - 240 dancers most of whom were fabulous. I didn't feel intimidated despite being one of the worst leaders there - I've come back inspired and enthused. The atmosphere at El Corte is really welcoming and friendly, everywhere you looked there were people smiling and enjoying that fabulous "Tango high"!

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by JonD

Abso-bl**dy-lutely! I'd have run a mile from my first AT class if I hadn't had the confidence I'd gained from 3 years of MJ. Confidence is the biggest thing I've taken from MJ to AT - I'm confident that I can learn to dance so, even when AT has been frustrating and I've felt like a complete clod I've had the belief that I can and will get better.

It's only that experience from MJ that gave me the confidence to try AT.

Clive

[timbp]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Inspired by this post, I thought I'd raise the question, for the Tango-ers out there: have you imported anything from your MJ into your Tango dancing?

I've found that almost all the stuff I learnt from MJ was, err, non-applicable to Tango dancing. However, there wera a few things I did manage to use:
- Music interpretation: MJ does allow this, and AT is so interpretive, this helps me; if I go wrong, I won't panic too much, I know I can pick it up and start again
- Dancing to the beat; the varied nature of MJ music teaches you to be able to dance at different tempos, and to find the beat, so that helps me a little with AT

I can't think of anything else - any other techniques? (This may be a short thread )

I have now had one (1) Argentinian Tango class.

Things I've learnt in MJ that helped me last night:

• Confidence: I know I can learn to dance, so I was able to get up and try it (although I was surprised just how nervous I was before the class)
  
• It's not the number of moves, it's how you dance them: I didn't worry about the fact that I only knew the one small sequence of steps they taught last night. I just concentrated on doing those steps as well as I could -- and evoked a stream of compliments from my partners and the teachers.
  
• Moves as taught are a base to work from: you can vary the timing, rotate them, change the size of steps, and so give a completely different appearance to the same basic step. You can break them down and recombine the parts. The sequence we were taught had three basic parts. Once I was confident with them, I started to change the sequence, and it worked -- and the ladies followed!

I also found that what I'd read on the forum in the various threads about tango helped a lot. Thanks everyone!

Overall, thanks to my MJ experience, I think I did much better in my first class than I thought I would. But I'm very aware of the many things I did wrong (floorcraft, musicality, lead -- which two do you want? I can manage about 1.8 out of 3.)

Tim

[David Bailey]

OK, having now had more classes and a bit more experience of the Tango scene, at least in London, I think I can add to my original post a little.

Originally Posted by wot I said back then

I've found that almost all the stuff I learnt from MJ was, err, non-applicable to Tango dancing. However, there wera a few things I did manage to use:
- Music interpretation: MJ does allow this, and AT is so interpretive, this helps me; if I go wrong, I won't panic too much, I know I can pick it up and start again
- Dancing to the beat; the varied nature of MJ music teaches you to be able to dance at different tempos, and to find the beat, so that helps me a little with AT

Other things I can think of:

• Attitude: sorry, but AT is just not as friendly a scene as MJ, there's more hotshottery and snobbishness. AT organisers could learn a lot about encouraging new blood and developing a supportive atmosphere by attending a Ceroc class or two.
• Teaching technique: good grief - even in 6 months, the number of "superstar" teachers I've seen who literally need a translator... And I sometimes think that 5 AT teachers will tell you 6 different and contradictory things. Like the salsa scene, the AT scene could again, learn a lot about defining minimum standards of teaching and consistency from Ceroc.
• Women asking men: I can see no earthly reason why, at a Milong, women should have to sit on the side of the room like lemons, and never ask men to dance - for goodness sake's, that's what we're all there for. But apparently, that's the Law Of Tango - Men Must Ask Women.

Any others?

[pmjd]

Originally Posted by Clive Long

It's only that experience from MJ that gave me the confidence to try AT.

Clive

Agreed, I wouldn't have gone near any sort of dance class, due to lack of confidence, until I had been dragged along and kept going to Ceroc for a while.


Will chip in my two pennys worth but pretty much the same as evertone else: confidence, bit of experience at least vaguely dancing in time to music, plus being used to dancing with another person, as opposed to years of shuffling with your friends at a nightclub, unless too many and the shuffling went out the window and you start doing other dance moves ala David Brent .


Only been going to the Tango class in Dundee and find it very friendly, but then again most folk there I know from Ceroc already .

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

[*] Teaching technique: good grief - even in 6 months, the number of "superstar" teachers I've seen who literally need a translator... And I sometimes think that 5 AT teachers will tell you 6 different and contradictory things. Like the salsa scene, the AT scene could again, learn a lot about defining minimum standards of teaching and consistency from Ceroc.

Originally Posted by FantaSun

Hey, I thought about learning English before I taught at the weekender. But then I thought - "no, you guys are good, you want to know the real authentic tango. And how can you do that if I give you some wishy-washy English translation? I could have told you to step forwards, but that would not have conveyed the appropriate feel of the dance. How much better to tell you "el paso adelante" and watch condescendingly from the stage as you all wonder what the hell I just said. (After all, looking condescending is a major part of tango...)" [... cont. page 94]

(And he would have got away with it, too, if it wasn't for you pesky forumites).

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

{ FantaSun quote }

I'd like to , but I think it's more like at the moment - if only that were an unrealistic parody of the situation

It's like Footballer's Wives - the satire can't keep up with the reality.