Learning Tango

[MartinHarper]

Third tango lesson today. Last week I was struck by hearing the teacher describe Foxtrot as "the hardest dance". Surely, I thought, Argentine Tango is the hardest dance? This week I found myself agreeing with the teacher. How can a series of quicks and slows and a few turns be so flaming hard? Grr.

Anyways, we revised our basic 8, and then our basic 6 with ochos, and my partner who claimed to have never danced Argentine Tango before followed nicely (except the cross, natch) and smiled at how much easier it all was than foxtrot. Then we got taught a Latte Garbo (coffee?) followed by a zig-zag, some kicky thing, and a mirrored ronde.

The kicky thing sucked. It's a whole world of eww. I might be more convinced if I was convinced it was leadable.

[Mr Cool]

Originally Posted by philsmove

Sorry

I have now completely given up AT
I have really enjoyed the journey, and learnt a lot about musicality, the frame, posture and that mysterious “connection” but unfortunately totally and utterly fed up with paying for expensive classes with leaders over then sitting out because the teacher does not rotate

I now find my self “stuck” and unable to progress further

As the saying goes “It takes two to Tango” and although there is usually a surplice of followers at a Milonga, there is often a surplice of leaders at beginner’s classes. Tango is not a spectator sport

Hi Philsmove
Sorry you have given up classes i know you have put in a lot of effort
Why not dance the tango you have learnt at regular Modern jive nights
I believe you can dance tango to a very wide range of music.
At its most basic AT is a very simple dance, (dont believe the Hype). Think about it it is simply walking leading the lady moving her smoothly from one foot to the next dictating where she transfers her weight.
Once mastered you can dance in and out of tango and its great fun,
You will be suprised how many ladies can feel the lead and dance tango with no formal lessons (some cannot so try several) (add a few simple decorations if you want) you may find you learn more from dancing and leading than you did from lessons
but keep dancing the ladies love it.

[Born2bwild]

Originally Posted by jivecat

Welcome to the forum and the AT thread, Born2bewild. Are you sure you won't regret this??

Jivecat, thank you for the welcome, and for sharing the experiene of the amazing musicality workshop I'll only regret my presence on the Forum if I end up spending as much time on it as you do..

[JonD]

Originally Posted by Philsmove

I have now completely given up AT

Phil, I'm so sorry to hear that, but I understand your frustration. The further along this "journey" I travel the more I appreciate how fortunate I am to have such a strong, equal and stimulating dance partnership with Julie. I imagine that not having a regular partner must magnify the difficulties of learning AT to a point that is almost intolerable. You've put in a lot of effort and energy; I hope that things change and you find a kindred spirit with whom you can share your love of AT in the future.

[Born2bwild]

Originally Posted by philsmove

Sorry

I have now completely given up AT
I have really enjoyed the journey, and learnt a lot about musicality, the frame, posture and that mysterious “connection” but unfortunately totally and utterly fed up with paying for expensive classes with leaders over then sitting out because the teacher does not rotate

I now find my self “stuck” and unable to progress further

As the saying goes “It takes two to Tango” and although there is usually a surplice of followers at a Milonga, there is often a surplice of leaders at beginner’s classes. Tango is not a spectator sport

Philsmove, I'm sorry to hear that you've become so frustrated with AT.

I started AT just over two years ago, went to regular classes and a few workshops for about the first six months, loved the look and feel of the dance, but then became very frustrated with the excrutiatingly slow progress . The local venue I attended had (and has) a lovely friendly atmosphere, but was always crowded and made learning any kind of figure nearly impossible - each time you'd get part way through and have to abort to avoid a collision. It's hard enough trying to master the figures in isolation, but having to apply floorcraft during the initial learning phase virtually kills it. For me it does anyway. I rarely 'nailed' any of the figures in one class, and then of course it was on to a new figure the next week. Not to mention the seemingly conflicting techniques (such as leading the cross) taught by different teachers in different workshops...

In the last six months I've decided that AT is definitely a dance I want to become more proficient at. So, how to proceed??

Like most endeavors one needs to know precisiely what is required and then do it! Simple!! As if. In the context of a partnered dance I've found that I need to spend time on my own reflecting on what I need to do, visualising dancing, and even physically practicing movements (as far as is possible without a partner). Then for the brief periods each week that I have chance to dance AT with partners I make best use of that time. Finding one or more willing partners to practice with away from classes/milongas is extremely valuable and I would strongly recommend this to anyone that is having difficulty (is there anyone that isn't having difficulty?!?!?) As a leader, taking up opportunites to follow has also been very educational and rewarding. In fact, I would be quite happy to spend a whole milonga dancing as a follower! I finally understood how to lead the cross after a combination of following a male friend, and a couple of minutes with an excellent teacher named Ruth.

My AT dancing has developed enormously in the last few months due to more frequent practice (classes, workshops, partners), more focused practice, and a much better understanding of precisely what I need to do.

Philsmove, if it's any consolation, I am as frustrated trying to learn West Coast Swing as you are with AT. The nearest regular classes are 80-90 minutes travelling time away, and I haven't found anyone that I can regulalry practice with.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by philsmove

I have now completely given up AT

No! - say it ain't so

(And because there are too few women? How weird is that? )

Move to London, we've got loads of classes here. There you go, sorted

[jivecat]

Originally Posted by Born2bwild

Jivecat, thank you for the welcome, and for sharing the experiene of the amazing musicality workshop I'll only regret my presence on the Forum if I end up spending as much time on it as you do..

See - it's sucked you in already. soon you'll be a gibbering wreck without your daily fix. (Did I actually say daily? )

[philsmove]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

No! - say it ain't so

(And because there are too few women? How weird is that? )

Move to London, we've got loads of classes here. There you go, sorted

It’s not just a shortage of ladies; some times it’s the other way round
But they also frustrated by the poorly organised rotation and give up


One the positive side, I have realised how professionally Ceroc is organised

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by philsmove

It’s not just a shortage of ladies; some times it’s the other way round
But they also frustrated by the poorly organised rotation and give up

One the positive side, I have realised how professionally Ceroc is organised

It's true - and the whole "crowd management" thing is one of Ceroc's most underrated achievements. You know that you'll always get an equal amount of time dancing as others do.

From what I can tell, all other dance forms - ballroom, salsa, AT - are much more haphazard in this area. Some AT teachers move you round, some don't. It's quite possible - ask CeeCee - for a lady to go to an AT class and not dance at all.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by philsmove

It’s not just a shortage of ladies; some times it’s the other way round
But they also frustrated by the poorly organised rotation and give up


One the positive side, I have realised how professionally Ceroc is organised

Originally Posted by DavidJames

It's true - and the whole "crowd management" thing is one of Ceroc's most underrated achievements. You know that you'll always get an equal amount of time dancing as others do.

From what I can tell, all other dance forms - ballroom, salsa, AT - are much more haphazard in this area. Some AT teachers move you round, some don't. It's quite possible - ask CeeCee - for a lady to go to an AT class and not dance at all.

I guess we're spoiled around here. I know that most of our teachers have been or do go to Modern Jive too. Maybe that's why they rotate the AT classes well?

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

From what I can tell, all other dance forms - ballroom, salsa, AT - are much more haphazard in {crowd management}

All my experiences of Lindy have been that rotation/etc has been as smooth as a MJ class, with the sole exception of a "Hollywood Lindy" 6-week course taught by Danceat8. The two Salsa venues I've been to also had decent rotation.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

From what I can tell, all other dance forms - ballroom, salsa, AT - are much more haphazard in this area. Some AT teachers move you round, some don't. It's quite possible - ask CeeCee - for a lady to go to an AT class and not dance at all.

I've not been to a class that bad, but I've been to classes where I've waited out about 45 mins at a time. I usually think I'm doing OK if I get to dance and practice about 1/2 the class as there is usually twice as many ladies as men.

[Gav]

Gav's Instalment Number 5

I think I've finally put the Norwich Wednesday and Friday lessons in their places. As things are progressing and I'm doing more lessons, I get the impression that I'm learning more technique on Fridays and figures on Wednesdays.
I guess for people doing both days, you have the balance between teaching a foundation to build upon and teaching enough figures to stop people getting bored.
The starting to learn some figures has also made me realise how much harder this is for followers than MJ is too.

No Lisa (my new dancing friend from last week) this week as she's away with work.

Beginners class
Balanced numbers and a woman younger than me to dance with! She's been dancing since she was a toddler, but only just started AT and can't believe how hard it is! Kind of explains why us mere mortals find it so tough.
Only a little walking this week and straight into a group practice. All in a circle holding hands, Open, together, pivot, back cross, together, pivot, open, together, pivot forward cross, together, pivot. The steps for Giros apparently.
Then into partnered practising. Seemed to go quite well. Then they threw in how to walk into and out of it too.

Improvers
Our young lady newcomer stepped out at this point, so I was working with one of the older ladies now.
Straight into the improvers with a recap of the Giros footwork. Apparently I have good strong intention, but my starting steps have no "soul". I need to push down into the floor with my weighted foot and launch into that first step, then maintain the intention.
Just when we seem to have got the hang of Giros, Ganchos! So whilst leading the Giro (admittedly easier than following it!), without looking I'm meant to stick my leg in between hers during the open step, before the back cross step and without crippling either of us! Actually it worked quite well, until Belinda said that she'd like to believe that we were so close to banging knees together because of my perfect timing, but it's more likely to be a lucky miss
As if that wasn't enough, a Gancho during the back cross step with a twisted leg, bent knee and pointed toes. Apparently if I 'receive' her leg and straighten mine, flinging hers back out again, that sends her into a forward Boleo? I still have no idea what that is?

Overall, lots of fun and interest, but I think that beginners like myself are going to be struggling to remember any of it by the next lesson!

[JonD]

Originally Posted by Jivecat

Joaquin Amenábar who is a bandoneonista who runs an Orquesta Tipica in Buenos Aires and teaches both bandoneon and tango. {Snip} If you get the chance, just do this guy's workshop.

Wow! What a brilliant workshop. We only had 2 x 90 minute sessions rather than a full weekend but my head was nearly bursting by the end of it. We covered rhythm in AT and milonga and then the standard structure of modern (post 1915 ish) Tango. It was fascinating, practical, inspiring and wonderful. I think if I'd had a full weekend, covering alternative structures and vals then I'd have had trouble absorbing it all but Joaquin teaches really well - clear, with authority, passion and humour. If you get a chance to do one of these then go; it'll change your dancing. It's certainly going to improve mine.

The class was pretty well attended and folk seemed to range from complete beginners to people who have been dancing for years. There was a 40 minute practica between the sessions which was fun, not least because it allowed us to warm up a bit; Lord, that hall was cold when we first arrived! I don't find the Bristol crowd particularly friendly although there are some faces we've known for a few years who are very welcoming, as are the organisers. It was a fun night but the drive back from Bristol seems very long - I got home just before 1am and Julie wouldn't have been home much before 1.45am. Very late for a "school night".

Originally Posted by Gav

Improvers

Woo, ganchos this early? That's impressive! My advice is not to worry too much about them Gav; they're kind of fun in the right places but more important to work on getting the giros right. It sounds like a fun class and well taught. A tip on any kind of entrada (where your leg enters the "space" of your partner's legs - so sacadas, ganchos or just simple entradas) is to make sure you step directly below the line of her shoulder as, if she's in mid-step, there won't be a foot there! Try to have your sternum facing her shoulder as you step into her space; if you don't step across the line of your body you shouldn't do too much damage. I have a habit of being very late (for which read kicking Julie's foot) in some sacadas but seem to have cured it by making sure I pivot a tiny bit more to get my sternum facing her as I step into the sacada. I hope that helps and that Lisa is back in class on Friday.

[CeeCee]

Originally Posted by philsmove

Sorry

I have now completely given up AT...

...Tango is not a spectator sport

Sad to hear this and we're sorry to lose you but hopefully you'll be back because as Mr Cool says,

Originally Posted by Mr Cool

keep dancing the ladies love it.

Originally Posted by Born2bwild

I will never hear traditional tango music in the same way ever again!

Hi Born2bwild and welcome to our little corner of the forum. Sounds like you and jivecat had a wonderful experience at your workshop. I still love the techno fusion tango tracks but I changed my appreciation of traditional tango music after I went to a musicality workshop too. Before then I suffered the sound of the bandoneon but now I quite enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I've not been to a class that bad, but I've been to classes where I've waited out about 45 mins at a time.

I'll raise you 15 minutes then Lynn. I waited for an hour in a class once, 7.50pm-8.50pm to be precise. In fairness, the teacher asked people to change partners but they ignored the request. Couples stayed glued together or swapped between pairs. That experience made me seriously reflect on the learning process.

Originally Posted by JonD

Woo, ganchos this early? That's impressive!

Or,
Woo, ganchos this early? That's alarming, disconcerting, frightening!

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

The kicky thing sucked. It's a whole world of eww.

I rest my case.

[MartinHarper]

My eww kicky thing wasn't a gancho. It was a forward kick in promenade position. No idea what it was called.
(we were promised a gancho next week, though)

[CeeCee]

Sunday Tea Dance

Sunday 14th January
La Mariposa, Wessex House, Clapham Junction, South London
Beginners 2pm-3pm, Intermediate 3pm-4pm, Milonga/Practica 4pm-6pm

I was in the mood to mingle and make merry with strangers so what better than to try a new Tango venue.

I digress for a moment because I have questions. I’m familiar with the assault on the senses provided by the décor in The Grand, Clapham Junction but how comes I haven’t heard about the interior of Wessex House? I was amused by the giant bamboo shoots, giant ladies' fans, dark walls and snowflakes. Should the ceiling furniture in the main ballroom be legendary? Should people travel from far and wide to observe and admire the conflicting themes? There are basketball sized oriental lanterns AND chandeliers AND a glitter ball all on one ceiling. It was like Chinese Dynasty meets Victoriana meets Disco.

The Classes
Two classes lots of moves, lots of footwork, little technique but lots of fun. One of our very own cerocers was in the beginners’ class but I don’t think I’m allowed to mention it. With several women over I took the lead in both classes.

One woman declined to dance with me and declared “Oh no, I’m waiting for a man”, I resisted the overwhelming urge to point out the bleeding obvious so I moved on and danced with other women who were happy to dance with me while she waited... and waited... and waited.
Does she have another agenda I wonder?

The Milonga
During a philosophical discussion a guy told me that women only have to do two things to get dances, (well I don't know about you but he had my attention)
1. Be moderately attractive
2. Be a moderately good dancer
Then he asked me to dance, I was tempted to laugh, I wondered, how moderate am I?

Another guy happily told me that he and his wife discovered that dancing the basic 8 in a social setting for two months was not what Tango was about. It took them longer to unlearn it and to introduce technique. Well, where have we heard that before? We had some lovely dances, which were even better when he stopped holding his breath and released his tight hold on me a little.

I was treated to lots of fine dances with a guy who other women were complaining about. Allegedly, he was rough with them, pulled them about and told them what to do during the classes and the milonga. They wanted to know what I thought of him. Well fancy that, he wasn’t rough with me, didn’t pull me about or tell me what to do.

A guy I’ve never seen before, appeared from nowhere, without a word he smiled, he held out his hand, I accepted it, he invited me straight into close hold, we danced five dances, we stopped, we parted, he smiled, he said thank you, he walked away.
What, no conversation in Tango?

Interestingly this event is organised by the same people where I had this experience so it just goes to show what difference a change of venue and the Christmas break can make to the clientele, the atmosphere and the learning experience.

Well, what a cracking afternoon. I wanted to mingle and make merry with strangers and that’s what I did. I wasn’t disappointed and had a super afternoon.