Learning Tango

[JonD]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

It was a forward kick in promenade position. No idea what it was called.

Hmmm - that does sound "interesting" It could be a boleo I guess. I can't say that I've ever encountered anything that could be described as a "kicky thing "other than very, very fast entradas repeated during a giro (and that's not for mere mortals even if your partner is wearing leg armour. Mind you, at the rate your teachers are introducing figures, you'll probably be doing them in a couple of weeks time).

Originally Posted by CeeCee

Woo, ganchos this early? That's alarming, disconcerting, frightening!

Yes, well, different styles of teaching and all that; I remember Jenny & Ricardo taught a gancho at their class at Camber a few years back. I didn't encounter ganchos for a couple of years and I still don't have the technique to do them with any degree of fluency but, as it's a "signature AT move" and doesn't really impact on any core technique perhaps it's OK. To do them well seems to require a very loose free leg (which I haven't got and is, perhaps, the weakest element in Julie's following at the moment) so it might provide an introduction to that concept.

Personally, I think ganchos done badly or out of context look absolutely pants: few things look worse than a couple who wobble all over the place, are disconnected and move with the grace of a limping camel stopping and, with huge concentration, doing a bad gancho. Still, if they enjoy it it doesn't really matter what I, or anyone else, thinks.

[JonD]

Originally Posted by JonD

A tip on any kind of entrada (where your leg enters the "space" of your partner's legs - so sacadas, ganchos or just simple entradas) is to make sure you step directly below the line of her shoulder as, if she's in mid-step, there won't be a foot there! Try to have your sternum facing her shoulder as you step into her space; if you don't step across the line of your body you shouldn't do too much damage.

Sorry folks, but I thought I ought to point out that I was talking garbage there. If you aim to step under your follower's shoulder in order to do a sacada when she's mid-step in a forward or backward to ocho you'll hurt her. It works fine if you are making a sacada in a side-step but otherwise it's tripe! I hope no followers are hobbling as a result.

I'm not exactly sure where I aim to step when I'm doing a sacada on an ocho; I'll have to think about it when I'm dancing and see what reference point I use.

Note to self: think more carefully before offering advice

[Gav]

Gav's Lesson #6

Had a really sh1tty day, but I made myself go so I wouldn't be stewing on it all night. As usual, I'm glad I did make myself go.

Beginners class

Rachel teaching lead again (Rachel says hello Jon) and Sam teaching the follow.

An hour of beginners, this time a little walking followed by some pivot practise.
Lesson number 6 and I find myself helping first timers with stuff they've missed already!
Pratising the leads cross to get from parallel to opposite feet walking, because we're moving onto backward ochos.
I think they hadn't expected people to still be struggling with walking (no, really struggling. Treading on toes, falling over etc), so the move onto ochos seemed a little rushed. OK in theory, but being able to walk into and out of them, not so easy. In fact I only really got it because I had one of the teachers in the rotation. I'm starting to think the teachers like to get me in the rotation because they know I'll pick it up quickly so they can leave me on my own while they go around the class helping everyone else.
Another good class and another ego boost. I had both teachers comment that I had a very good walk (better than some intermediates, was one of the comments ).

Practica

Not very many ladies at all in the Practica. I enjoyed watching for a while until Sam (followers teacher from the class) got me up to dance and encouraged me to practise what we'd learned, at the same time telling me that sometimes it's nice to just walk, knowing that she'll be looked after by a confident leader and knowing that he won't try all flashy moves on her.
Just put my trainers back on and Rachel asked for a dance I did actually want to leave, but there was no way I was going to say no! Lovely dances, practising what we'd learnt. I did notice though that my confident, bold walk failed me on the busy dance floor. Confidence went out of the window when I found myself having to weave in between dancers showing off their best figures! But it was good, because when I got stuck, I had a teacher in my arms and could ask, "is this right?" and "what should I do when...?".

Well, much like I couldn't imagine me not dancing now, I don't think I could imagine me not Tangoing now! Well and truly hooked!

Just need to get more ladies going in Norwich!

[stefanofava]

Hi guys,
How you are you up there in lovely Scotland?
I hope it's not too cold.
Last time we came to Aberdeen in November with Franck and Sheena, it was such a pleasure to see all our tango Workshops full of enthusiastic people.
Some of you at the end of the weekend asked us to let them know when we would be back.
Well, there you are: we are coming again in Aberdeen on the 10 and 11 of February, invited by the Tango Aberdeen organization.
We will teach a series of workshops (Sat and Sun) and we will performe during their Carneval Ball on Sunday 11 Feb.

You can find the full programma on their web site www.tangoaberdeen.com or you can contact Roberta on 07879 006693 (email tangoscozia@yahoo.it)

Alexandra and I hope to see you soon

Ciao
Stefano
www.tangoinaction.com

[JonD]

Originally Posted by Gav

Had a really sh1tty day, but I made myself go so I wouldn't be stewing on it all night

That's a neat summary of my Friday and reason for going to our local milonga! It sounds like Gav had a really good lesson and I'm pleased to report that I had a fab time at Ashburton Town Hall.

I got to the milonga before Julie and had a tanda dancing with Alison. It was great fun but I felt that my dancing was a bit "lumpy"; difficult to describe exactly what I mean but my lead wasn't consistently smooth and I seemed to be a bit off balance and not matching Alison's length of step exactly. It wasn't anything dramatic and it wasn't all the time. I decided not to worry about it and just have fun dancing and before very long the lumps had dissolved.

It was a really fun night with lots of beginners who'd come along to their first milonga. That made navigating the floor quite interesting but there was a lovely atmosphere and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. It's so good to see people coming along and getting out on the floor even if they've done nothing but walk and it's good for those who've been dancing for a little while to see how they've improved in comparrison to someone whose just started. It was a great way of ending the week.

[MartinHarper]

Mmm, fourth lesson. Foxtrot still way too difficult. Argentine Tango still easy.
Went over previous figures. Got taught some simple figure with reverse ochos and our single promised Gancho. Slow, slow, slow, reverse ocho, ocho, ocho, ocho, ocho, gancho, forward ocho, quick, quick, slow. I'm filing ganchos under the category of "fun". Apparently the key to ganchos is to do have the same hip-to-hip thing that I remember from Judo throws. See: technique!

My partner and I were quite confident dancing all that, so I suggested I lead stuff in a random order, and we could practice doing it "properly" via lead/follow. After a couple of false starts, this went surprisingly well. Obviously we couldn't dance arbitrary shapes, but we were able to dance all four figures in an arbitrary order, with changes of direction and tempo so as to avoid all the other dancers on the floor. Most pleasing. One exception: the "cross" proved tricky. We could do it fine as a choreographed figure, but with lead/follow it was hit and miss.

My partner almost melted into my arms after the first song we danced freestyle like that. Apparently the experienced was vastly improved for her, as it was all a surprise, and she didn't have to think so much, and some of the moves felt smoother and more natural that way. Nice things to hear. Plus, it did feel really good. So we danced the rest of the class like that. Good times.

So next week my partner can't make it, so I get a pot luck follower. Then the week after that will be the final week. Assuming she can make it, I think we should try out for doing arbitrary figures based on the bigger elements we have, and proceed to dance off into the sunset.
Eh, I can dream, right?

[JonD]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

My partner almost melted into my arms after the first song we danced freestyle like that. Apparently the experience was vastly improved for her, as it was all a surprise, and she didn't have to think so much, and some of the moves felt smoother and more natural that way. Nice things to hear. Plus, it did feel really good. So we danced the rest of the class like that. Good times.

That's it - Martin is hooked! It sounds great Martin, just wonderful. I'm going to have to try foxtrot and find out why it's so tricky. Julie dances it well (as she does everything) so she can give me a few lessons.

Talking of Julie, she has been going to a beginner AT class and learning to lead. Last night I got a text at the end of her class and start of the practica declaring that she was brain dead, frustrated and that nothing was working. I, of course, replied with the sensitve and caring suggestion that she remember the need to reflect the rhythmic and melodic variations in the music and mark the end of the pauses and to stay relaxed throughout. Her reply was simple and to the point: ".... off"!

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by JonD

Talking of Julie, she has been going to a beginner AT class and learning to lead. Last night I got a text at the end of her class and start of the practica declaring that she was brain dead, frustrated and that nothing was working.

- tell her that's how we all feel all the time, I dare you

One of the problems with practicing leading AT is that I think you need a partner to tell you if you're doing it right. Whereas a lot of the follower role is about balance, axis, posture etc., and you can practice this by yourself (endless ochos and other pivot-y things).

I also think it's harder learning to be a leader than a follower in the initial stages of AT - well, in every dance probably. A beginner follower can be led to a large extent, a beginner leader can't be...

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

One exception: the "cross" proved tricky. We could do it fine as a choreographed figure, but with lead/follow it was hit and miss.

Really? Never heard of anyone having problems with the cross.... (See my frustrations earlier on this thread...)

Sounds great.

Still haven't got to do any AT (hopefully will at Southport this weekend) but had a little AT related incident at the weekend that I thought I'd share.

I was in Freed (in fact I was in 3 dance shops on Sat and didn't buy any shoes) and noticed they had a pair of fairly traditional ladies tango style, unsurprisingly called 'Tango'. While I was waiting to ask about a different pair another customer came over with a shop assistant. She was looking for shoes for AT. She was shown Marissa (yep, they work OK for tango as I wear my old pair with the worn soles for classes and practicas). She was told that was all really. I pointed out they stocked a shoe called Tango (like I'd been in there all of 10 mins and discovered that and the assistant only worked there... ) which resulted in a lovely AT chat with the other customer, what sort of soles work well for pivots etc. Nice to have a little tango shoe talk, even if I'm not getting to dance any AT.

[marty_baby]

Originally Posted by philsmove

Sorry

I have now completely given up AT
I have really enjoyed the journey, and learnt a lot about musicality, the frame, posture and that mysterious “connection” but unfortunately totally and utterly fed up with paying for expensive classes with leaders over then sitting out because the teacher does not rotate

I now find my self “stuck” and unable to progress further

As the saying goes “It takes two to Tango” and although there is usually a surplice of followers at a Milonga, there is often a surplice of leaders at beginner’s classes. Tango is not a spectator sport

Hiya Phil,

Really sorry to hear that mate!

Look on the bright side tho - all those dance skills - you can use them in the other dancing you do! 8)


I'll try and make a point of chatting with you at the next dance! (Saw you on Sat.... but typical nite - didn't chat to anyone really!)

Martin

[JonD]

Originally Posted by David James

tell her that's how we all feel all the time, I dare you

Noooo - far too dangerous: I think I've pushed my luck far enough. She'll be doing an unled, vigorous, mis-targetted gancho on me if I'm not careful.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I was in 3 dance shops on Sat and didn't buy any shoes

Now I am really worried about you: you are definitely unwell - seek help immediately! I think an extended stay in a residential AT therapy unit is called for but Southport will work as an interim fix. Have a great weekend!

[Gav]

I have 2 completely different questions I need help with please:

1. As I understand it, it isn't just Tango that get's played at a Practica/milonga. There's also Milonga and others that I can't remember/spell . My questions are, what are the different types of music and what are the differences?



2. I was talking about etiquette with a teacher at a Practica and she said that at a Milonga, everyone moves in the line of dance and strictly no overtaking, but at a practica, no-one really cares, cut across the room, overtake, dodge in and out.
Assuming this is generally accepted and assuming that there is an answer to this one, would an Argentine Tango room at an MJ weekender be considered to be a Practica or a Milonga?


TIA,
Gav.

[jivecat]

Originally Posted by Gav

2. I was talking about etiquette with a teacher at a Practica and she said that at a Milonga, everyone moves in the line of dance and strictly no overtaking, but at a practica, no-one really cares, cut across the room, overtake, dodge in and out.
Assuming this is generally accepted and assuming that there is an answer to this one, would an Argentine Tango room at an MJ weekender be considered to be a Practica or a Milonga?

I think it would be a Milonga but might degenerate into a practica. At a Milonga I think the idea is that each dance should be an enjoyable social interlude which should not be interrupted for teaching purposes, or fragmented by repetition of steps, or anything which prevents the flow of the dance. So anything that requires discussion, practice, repetition, making mistakes, messing about, experimenting etc should be done in a practica.

At the classes I go to the large room is divided by a set of tables (after the lesson part is over) and the proper dancing is done on one side and the practising done on the other. I get the feeling they're a bit strict and old-fashioned there, however.

[JonD]

I missed the AT class tonight as I was working late which was a shame. I got a text from Sean just before the improver class started saying they were men short; I hope that the ladies aren't discouraged and stop coming along.

Originally Posted by Gav

it isn't just Tango that get's played at a Practica/milonga

I'll do my best Gav, but my knowledge of Tango music is pretty poor. You'll normally encounter 3 different sorts of music: tango, milonga (the same word is used for a dance event, the type of music and the dance you do to that music) and vals.

Milonga, generally, has a faster tempo than Tango and a more "playfull" feel - it's too quick for fancy figures so keep it simple and concentrate on having fun. I tend to play a game of trying to catch my follower out with syncopations, little rocking steps, rapid accelerations and decelerations and such like. Try not to bounce or to "pump" with your left arm in time to the music (both habits I had); your upper body should be smooth and level. I find it easier in close embrace, but then I find leading in close embrace easier for most things. You lead in exactly the same way as if you were dancing Tango but the mood is one of fun and giggles! Wikipedia definition (normal wiki disclaimers apply)

You can get very slow milongas - it's the musical form that defines it. Have a listen to Milonga del Angel by Piazzolla which makes for a really delicious, intense Tango.

Vals is, as you'd guess, the Tango form of walz. It's 3/4 time and as a leader you generally step on the 1, with occasional double-time steps on either 1,2 or 1,3. The follower will use 1,2 or 1,3 more frequently than the leader as she does giros and ochos and what not. The mood is generally more "swirly" than Tango and I tend to use a lot of rotations aiming for a "carried away on a wave of romance" sort of feel, if that makes sense. Try and keep a continuous flow of movement without any lengthy pauses. Again, stay smooth and level and lead in exactly the same way as a normal Tango. I'll open the embrace more in Vals to allow the rotations and sometimes Julie and I will play "keep your own axis in open embrace vals" to see who stumbles most often - she normally wins.

Originally Posted by Jivecat

I think it would be a Milonga but might degenerate into a practica.

Judging by the Tango at Southport in June, that sounds about right. I'd treat it as a milonga and conform to the line of dance - I try to at practicas as well, moving into the centre if I want to stop and work on something rotational or static and then rejoining the line of dance to practice in normal movement. Diving across the line of dance isn't a great idea in any circumstances but you can get away with it at a practica (normally in an effort to get to a spot where there are no other dancers - why do we tend to cluster in one corner of the floor?!) Keep your eyes open - there'll be lots of people stopping and starting!

(In my travels I came across my hero Gavito doing something a bit special.)

[Gav]

Originally Posted by jivecat

I think it would be a Milonga but might degenerate into a practica. At a Milonga I think the idea is that each dance should be an enjoyable social interlude which should not be interrupted for teaching purposes, or fragmented by repetition of steps, or anything which prevents the flow of the dance. So anything that requires discussion, practice, repetition, making mistakes, messing about, experimenting etc should be done in a practica.

Originally Posted by JonD

Judging by the Tango at Southport in June, that sounds about right. I'd treat it as a milonga and conform to the line of dance - I try to at practicas as well, moving into the centre if I want to stop and work on something rotational or static and then rejoining the line of dance to practice in normal movement. Diving across the line of dance isn't a great idea in any circumstances but you can get away with it at a practica (normally in an effort to get to a spot where there are no other dancers - why do we tend to cluster in one corner of the floor?!) Keep your eyes open - there'll be lots of people stopping and starting!

Thanks guys.
OK now I'm going to be worrying about it.
Not been to a milonga yet, I don't feel ready for it as when people stop and do figures in front of me, I generally panic and stand still because I either haven't learnt anything to do or can't remember it.
I was thinking that I could look forward to Southport and an opportunity to practise my new obsession and I still want to, so if you're there, please bear with me while I struggle my way through!

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Argentine Tango still easy.

I'm getting more and more tempted to try these classes...

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

One exception: the "cross" proved tricky. We could do it fine as a choreographed figure, but with lead/follow it was hit and miss.

I'm still working on leading these properly, but I think I now understand what I should be doing, assuming that the follower's leg is free and she dissociates properly...