Learning Tango

[Caro]

ok.... I'm back at tango

Just to give a bit of background, have been dancing AT for about a year (before the last interruption), but with little attendance to the classes ( ) - the standard of teaching here just isn't great and I get very frustrated so I struggle to find the motivation to go some weeks...
With the assignment in Cameroon etc I hadn't danced AT for about 6 months... (except a couple of really nice dances at SP last week-end).

Now we have Stefano and Alexandra (from tango in action in London) this week-end so I've signed up to all the workshops, as I know they're great teachers.

- 1st one this morning: waltz for beginners
I was really inspired to book that one - I think I have finally understood something about waltz . Spent lots of time just walking (on our own, not even 'tango' walking, just normal) on the music to get ourselves familiarised with the rythm, minor and major phrases. Then we learnt a couple of easy steps and how to use the timing to fit the music.

- then milonga, again for beginners. Pretty much the same, we spent lot of time doing exercises on the music to understand the structure of it. Then simple steps, the aim was to look like we were dancing a milonga track, not actually doing fancy moves. Again it was good to actually dance to the music...

- musicality this afternoon: fab, and I really needed it. My musicality is ok I guess in a MJ/WCS environment, but is pretty rubblish when it comes to tango. We spent a lot of time... waiting. Pausing. And that's when it gets interesting for us follows as suddenly we have plenty of extra time and our feet just want to play... It was really nice, as the guys up here tend to step step step all the time and don't give us much opportunity to free up our feet and do embellishments. So I realised my frustration about my musicality in tango wasn't due (entirely) to me not understanding the music, but rather to the fact that I never really get much opportunity to develop it and do stuff on my own (as the guys here tend to move us all the time). I liked how Stephano explained that we should not let the music control us - but rather use it as and when we wish. 'let the music go'.

Now I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's workshops... having not worn 3" heels for 6 months+, my feet are really killing me (I have lost all that tough skin on the balls of my feet!), so I hope I'll still be able to dance... especially as we have a masked ball in the evening - time to practice all those stuffs .

Coincidentally tonight I went to a ballroom ( ) event where Vincent and Flavia did 5 demos: waltz, quickstep, samba, rumba and AT.
The first 3 were technically superb I suppose, but left me pretty much unmoved. The AT routine was the same as SP last week - great performance, but again what gives me the shivers in tango is somewhat more connected and intimate dances. However their rumba.... was simply beautiful, I loved it . They danced to 'fields of gold' - the Eva Cassidy version... I still have shivers just thinking about it.

*goes back to hovering above her little cloud*

[Gav]

Glad you're back to AT Caro. I've only been off for a week with the post-Southport lurgy after only learning for a month and I'm really missing it.

[Caro]

Just back from the milonga tonight...

Workshops today were a bit more challenging, waltz first and then milonga for improvers... I think the teachers were quite disappointed when we started the waltz workshops as they asked us to dance and very few couples (well I should say guys really, we just follow ) were actually putting in practice what we learnt the day before... i.e. phrasing the music etc.

The milonga workshop focused on double-time steps... a lot more difficult than what it seems. Personally I really struggled to feel the guys leading double time steps... I danced with Stefano tonight to a milonga track and I didn't mess up once (yep very proud ) (ok may be just once ) and he kept changing the timing all the time, so I guess I am able to follow it when it's (very) well lead...

I then went to the milonga tonight and I had a brilliant time .
There's one guy in particular with whom I really have a great connection and it's such a pleasure to dance with him... everything just flows... He told me 'you're a fantastic follow, it's so easy!!!' which I have to say made my day .
To be honest I had mostly very good and excellent dances, the good thing with AT here is that we rarely dance less than 3 tracks with the same lead... And all my leaders were great tonight .
Had the pleasure to have 3 dances with Stefano (waited until he asked me as I know he doesn't like being asked by women... he's such a macho ... but I so love the way he calls me 'Carolina' with his italian accent ), I really enjoyed those...

Looking forward to another week-end of workshops with Jenny and Ricardo (Edinburgh teachers) next month... I'm actually thinking about taking a private with Ricardo... anybody out there who's done it before?

[CeeCee]

Originally Posted by Caro

ok.... I'm back at tango

<< snip lovely review of musicality workshop >>

*goes back to hovering above her little cloud*

If anyone is wondering why you've returned to tango, then your last line says it all. Well done.

Your workshop sounds just like the one I did in Cheltenham. Before the workshops I'd found traditional tango music difficult to tolerate for more than a few minutes at a time. I feel much better now because the music actually makes sense.

Delighted to hear that you enjoyed your milonga. Classes are essential but dancing at milongas makes a huge difference to our enjoyment of tango and helps our learning too.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I have to say I admire everyone who runs technique classes - they're definitely a labour of love, in that so few people seem to be interested in technique...

No kidding. I'm really glad that they run them but as so few people attend I often wonder why the teachers continue.

"Technicca with Kicca" at the Dome last week was great fun. With the absence of men, yet again, we worked on decorations using our heels, toes and ankles, lovely.

Ivan at the Negracha now runs three classes at the same time and the newest is a technique class run by Jenny. She is an excellent teacher and I find her short temper (particularly with Ivan I might add) quite entertaining. Numbers are low but increasing each week. I'm having fun and so far we've worked on pivots, decorations, pivots, boleos, pivots, ochos and er... oh dear I've forgotten the other thing, oh yes more pivots.

Last Friday was the best night I've had at the Negracha. Dancing lots and lots and lots in the milonga after the class gave me the opportunity to concentrate on my free leg and think about my contribution to the dance. When the decorations work and the leader is happy then ... yum yum.

[jivecat]

Originally Posted by Caro

*goes back to hovering above her little cloud*

for Caro. That's the nature of tango, always hovering above, or below, a little cloud!

[JonD]

Originally Posted by Caro

I'm actually thinking about taking a private with Ricardo... anybody out there who's done it before?

Go for it! Julie and I had a private with Jenny & Ricardo at Camber way back in November 2004 (I think that's when it was - the old memory isn't what it was). We also went to the Tango Tangk they taught last summer; we really rate their teaching and are looking forward to seeing them at a milonga in a couple of weeks and again at the Tango Tribe in March. I'm sure you'll get a huge amount from a lesson with Ricardo but it might be worth getting both of them together; having Jenny watching and commenting as you dance with Ricardo will probably lead to a more intensive learning experience! (Thinking about it, that might be too much).

I had a good weekend as well. The milonga on Saturday night was great fun and well attended. Our little "Tango Club" has grown and grown and the dances are attracting folk from all over the region. I'd guess there were 40 or 50 people there, a good proportion of whom are relatively new to AT. The only downside was that I danced with a beginner who really, really "leant" on my left arm - so much so that my shoulder was horribly stiff when I got home. Fortunately Julie had some glucosomine gel which cleared the stiffness very quickly; I'd never come across the stuff before but I'm going to add a tube to my dance bag.

On Sunday Julie and I spent a couple of hours practicing at Chudleigh Town Hall. We spent 30 minutes or so working on clockwise giros which sometimes feel a bit awkward. By playing around with my foot position and the way Julie pivots into her side step we got that sorted and then spent the next 90 minutes working on colgadas. We were using a figure that we were taught in August 2005 and we still haven't got it right. It's fascinating trying to work through it together - we use video - but I fear we're going to need some help before we get it right. We're seeing Oliver & Marisa, who taught it, at the end of March so we'll probably cause them to despair by saying "You know that figure you taught us 18 months ago? Well we're still making a pig's ear of it. Help!"

[Feelingpink]

SOUTH LONDON BEGINNERS COURSE

First night in Dulwich with Tango South London , inspired by Zuhal (I think) on this thread, and it was loverly.

Nice teacher Claire - good very high shoes & obligatory eclectic clothes sense. She had a nice partner Javier, who I got to dance with quite a few times - we had five women and four guys - so when he stepped in, we had even numbers.

She taught really well - warm-ups holding hands in a circle for stability, then walking and feeling our weight change then 6 and 8 counts. It's the first time I've really been in a class where they are used and it was good to be doing more than 'just' walking, but equally felt this is going to store up problems with some of the leaders later on, who will wonder why they are not being followed. Yeah, I know, give the guys a break, it's only week one - but was especially aware because of this thread's comments.

We have homework - walkiing without bouncing. May move some furniture around so I can practise walking in front of a mirror. A lot of the guys who were there tonight had done an introduction for complete beginners on Saturday, which was great. One of them is a lovely, lovely clear and delicate lead - completely obvious when he's leading a cross and when he isn't (at least in this lesson/scenario ). For another, this is the first time he's ever danced - and was his new year resolution after playing a murder mystery game at Christmas which was Strictly Come Dancing themed

So, nice teacher, nice people and less than an hour from home with a Sainsbury's on the way. Yum.

[MartinHarper]

Oh, so my very last Tango class. I'd missed a week, so I got an explanation of "the two chairs" figure that I'd missed, followed by a spin into that tilty "ooh, what's on my right foot" move I know from Ceroc. Both doable but (when we did it) inelegant. Add practice, a few wise words and dabs of technique, and it was all over. So what did I learn in my five hours?

The importance of good followers. So my dancing partner for most classes is a member of two dance companies, an actor, and teaches some form of solo dance. She'd never followed before the course. I can't help thinking this gave us an edge over the competition. Posture and balance and all that great stuff seems way more important than following technique.

Middle ground in leading. Gross leading - distinguishing between two very different figures - is fairly easy. Fine leading - indicating the size and direction of steps - is also easy. The middle bit - indicating what steps there shall be in a figure - is where it gets hard. Fortunately my course didn't cover any of that, which made the whole thing simple. I'm not sure whether I want to route around the hard stuff, or beat it.

Other stuff. Foxtrot is way hard. The moves MJ ripped from Tango have a context and detail that makes them easier in the original. Attempts to fuse Tango and Jive are... optimistic. Not going to happen. The ability to move between Tango and Jive seems mostly pointless: there's a much smaller overlap compared to Swing and Jive.

Where from here? Well, I have enough figures. If I mix and match elements from the figures I was taught, which was just starting to become plausible, then I could be dancing several songs without repeating entire figures, and there are sufficient elements to move around the floor as appropriate. So the options seem to be:

A. Lots and lots of practice, socially, to music, with someone else who has done the same course. Repeat until capable of leading arbitrary figures at arbitrary speeds, or until a gaping hole of missing technique prevents further progress.
B. Another class. Ideally one with technique but no figures. I can't see such things being prevalent.

Both possible, both unlikely. I'll likely leave it there. We'll see.

[David Bailey]

Ruminating on the usefulness or not of the "Basic 8", I came across this page:
http://www.argentinetangosoutheast.c...le.html#salida

There's a nice discussion on the pros and cons of teaching the salida - and I think this could be expanded to include patterns in general - versus what they call "improvisational teaching".

Worth a read I think.

[Lynn]

Got some details about our class on Fri night - I haven't made it along to the new set of classes yet (I've had valid reasons, like not being in the country) - so really looking forward to going along this week. Visiting teacher from Scotland (our teacher is away - in BsAs of course!). Haven't done an AT class since the start of Nov - scared I won't remember much!

[Gav]

Still sick, still not dancing

But I've just heard that we have Fernando Guidi from Tango Mango visiting Norwich soon. Anyone have an opinion on our visiting teacher?

[JonD]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

The moves MJ ripped from Tango have a context and detail that makes them easier in the original. Attempts to fuse Tango and Jive are... optimistic. Not going to happen. The ability to move between Tango and Jive seems mostly pointless: there's a much smaller overlap compared to Swing and Jive.

I'm not sure I'd agree with all of that Martin, although I do agree with some of it, but it's great to see that you enjoyed your introduction to some form of Tango.

I can testify that the ability to move between Tango and Jive is quite delicious and gives you a whole new language with which to express slower music. (Sticking some milonga into faster tracks can be quite fun as well). I tend to agree that attempts to "fuse" AT and MJ are optimistic, simply because you'd need to be a proficient AT and MJ lead to create the fusion and, if you can do that, then you're "combining" the dances rather than fusing them (dancing AT for some phrases and MJ for other phrases).

I do think you've been a bit "short changed" by your classes in that you haven't studied technique or lead/follow to any great extent but my impression is that was your choice. As a result, I'm not sure you've fully appreciated the delights, possibilities and challenges of AT. I do hope that you decide to pursue your interest a little further - I'm sure DJ and CeeCee can give you some advice on where to go for your "Option B" classes. ("Option A" is, in my view, the road to perdition). Thanks for reporting on your classes; it's been good to have a different perspective.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

There's a nice discussion on the pros and cons of teaching the salida

That's interesting and I think they make some very valid points. It's equally interesting that Ruth Zimmerman has moved slightly in the opposite direction - starting to employ the basic 8 after many years of shunning it completely. I think it's misleading to state that the opposite to the "salida" method is "improvisational". Apart from some very, very early classes with Ruth ("be two wild cats meeting on a jungle path" etc.) I've never done an AT class that didn't include some kind of figure to provide a focus for the teaching. Whether it's a simple backward ocho or an "expensive sacada" then you're being taught something that you could attempt to use on the social floor. I agree with the principle though and followers who "cross on 5" do drive me to distraction! I'm not against the basic 8 as long as it's role as an artificial teaching device is stressed and nobody calls it the "basic step".

Originally Posted by Gav

we have Fernando Guidi from Tango Mango visiting Norwich soon.

Fernando! Do give him my best regards when you see him. I count Fernando as a friend; I don't see him often these days but he, together with Ruth, were my first AT "pushers". I remember so well how he came and walked alongside me in my first ever AT lesson, saying nothing but using his example to help me take the first steps on this long, wonderful road. He spent about 3 years teaching here in Devon and made a huge contribution to our AT scene. He's a good teacher but can sometimes let his attention wander - particularly if there is a pretty girl somewhere close by! You can learn a hell of a lot just by watching him dance at a milonga; he uses lovely small, intricate steps which are just "thrown away". Ask him for some exercises - he showed me some simple ways to improve my pivots that I'm still using, although maybe they don't work because my pivots are still pretty lousy. I'll be seeing him at the Mango next week so I'll tell him to look out for you.

Still sick, still not dancing

Me too. It seems I caught the Southport lurgy without having the pleasure of the weekend. Maybe I shouldn't have given Saphire a kiss last Thursday! (Nah, kissing Saphire is well worth the risk of feeling lousy for a few days).

Originally Posted by Lynn

scared I won't remember much

You'll be fine Lynn! Have fun.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Gav

But I've just heard that we have Fernando Guidi from Tango Mango visiting Norwich soon. Anyone have an opinion on our visiting teacher?

I had a private lesson with him at Tango Mango last year and found it really helpful - worked on balance, posture and pivots.

Originally Posted by JonD

You'll be fine Lynn! Have fun.

Here's what we are doing, it looks good...

[ALL] Warm-up: basics/exercises (balance / rhythm / connection / improvisation / technique);

[ALL] Musicality, posture and embrace;

[BEGINNERS1 & 2] Improvising on the Basic-8 and Caminata;

[IMPROVERS/INTERMEDIATE] Looking at Giros and Sacadas;

[ALL] <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PLACE>Supervised Practica</ST1:PLACE>

<ST1:PLACE>
</ST1:PLACE>

[jivecat]

Originally Posted by Gav

But I've just heard that we have Fernando Guidi from Tango Mango visiting Norwich soon. Anyone have an opinion on our visiting teacher?

He almost reduced me to tears at the last Tango Mango but I'm sure you're made of tougher stuff, Gav!

My experience was that he was extremely good at "diagnostics" and could quickly work out what was wrong just by watching a couple dance; he also taught a brilliant workshop on close embrace that elucidated a number of points that had previously been a total mystery to me. He uses progressive exercises to get his point across, developing play/exploratory activities into structured figures really effectively with humour and a light touch - as do the other teachers at Tango Mango.

But I wouldn't personally score him high on "floorside manner."

[DianaS]

Originally Posted by DianaS

Just had my first AT class in Birmingham and will just have to pour it all out.
It was a cafe bar in the front very mediteranean looking and quaint. Walk through the back door and its a sprung floor mirror wall and barrs.
I warmed up feeling nervous. The women were one side of the room the men another. It was a beginners class, and it was the second week.

We learned to walk. First forwards then backwards My high heels wobbled as my core lifted, my cosix sank, and my kneeds struggled to find each other. Not so elegant was my reflection, but the teacher kindly corrected me. It looks as though I'll be ironing and hoovering in my heels to get adjusted to the height
Then we learnt swirls with our feet balancing on one we move the other forwards, sideways and backwards. It felt excuisite. Then we slide forwards, stop one one foot turned our selves and slide the other making our way across the room. One lady didn't manage she was corrected and we continued.
Later we were paired to lead and follow, weight tipped forwards, finger tips on our partners chest. An elderly gentleman put me at my ease as me moved slowly across the floor. Without noticing it we became closer, he commented teasing me,
there was a quiet moment of laughter

We were shown a sequence with a right right cross.
I struggled using other latin steps unconsciously ,until again I was corrected and again, and yet again untill I followed and the teacher looked at a glance and said yes.

The music was much to my taste, the other dancers quiet composed and hardworking and no one all night demanded I smile, but the smile was there hovering around my lips. It is a very beautiful dance.

One year on
For friends and fellow tango dancers

Training week by week,
Sandra, my mind retains your words , my body fails to follow
"ankles together" - but my knees can't meet -
There's that critical gap between my legs and feet!

laughter flows, week by week we meet and train,
it's sometimes a seemlingly hopeless game,
but we work as one, and I love your class
- To you, Sandra and Loyd, I raise my glass.

At last, to dance.
Deeper, quieter, more beautiful than before,
Moments of life perfectly still in time,
a dance drawing tears, moving me to the core,
with the ecquisite pattern of our feet on the bare floor.

So tell me once more,
How can we know the dancer from the dance?

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Here's what we are doing, it looks good...
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PLACE>
</ST1:PLACE>

...and it was.

The two level thing worked very well - everyone walking together at first, listening to the music, basic walking techniques - then divided into beginners and improvers. Improvers working on giros and secadas from a giro. The teacher taught both levels at once - demoing and getting the beginners to work on something, then across to the improvers and the same, spending time going between the groups, observing and assisting. This meant that instead of 1 hour beginners class and 1 hour improvers, everyone got 2 hours.

Ended up being demo for both groups, so even though as usual there wasn't enough men - 2 men and 5 women in the improver group - I was able to follow the teacher so had a good idea of what I was supposed to be doing.

There was about 15 mins of practica time at the end - improvers and beginners told to mix in and dance together, about 1/2 a track at a time and the teacher called out 'change partners' so everyone got to dance with lots of different partners.

Haven't done an AT class since November and was relieved that I was able to switch straight back into AT mode - probably the milongas at Southport helped.

Looking forward to next weeks class. Refreshing to have a different teacher. Much as I loved the Castillos and enjoyed watching them dance, their limited English meant that it was difficult for them to explain technique.

This teacher has an excellent balance of technique and figures.