Learning Tango

[Feelingpink]

Originally Posted by JonD

... I had a couple of dances with Naomi, who teaches in Bath, which just didn't work - strange how that happens sometimes. I found that she slowed down every movement, particularly crosses, all the time and that she took me off my axis in giros by taking really short side steps. We just didn't "fit". After two tangos she said "thank you" and I think we were both relieved to curtail the experience. She's a nice dancer and I was dancing pretty well with other people (if I say so myself). I'll try to dance with her again and see if it was just how we were dancing at that particular time.

When you say she slowed down every movement - was she actually making the timing slower or being just behind your lead? I'm asking, because Claire said this week to be just a bit behind the guy - as if his lead is happening down the end of a long tunnel - and gave examples of being 'efficient' as a follower & being a bit behind. The 'behind' version looked miles better, but wondered what it was like for the leader.

Originally Posted by JonD

{Mango immersion therapy}

:Green jealous smiley: And do update us on how Julie reacts to your "be a Bull, scare the pants off them" technique ....

[CeeCee]

New Venue * New Venue * New Venue

Tis February
Time to try somewhere new
Time to extend the boundaries
Time to venture out of... My Comfort Zone

The chosen venue has quite a reputation and I’ve heard more negative reports than positive. One of the reasons for this discrepancy is because alternate nights are run by, Nikki and Valeria www.dancetango.co.uk and the other nights are run by Paul and Michiko www.elonce.com. Seemingly each organiser has its own loyal following.

Time to visit both and form my own opinion.

The Crypt, St James Church, Clerkenwell Close, London, EC1

Saturday 3rd February 2007
Nikki and Valeria night

The journey was a doddle and it's nice not to get lost when travelling to a new venue. I was surprised to arrive in a picturesque part of town tucked away behind Farringdon station. Parking was easy and after a short stroll past the noisy pub and the lively wine bar, the imposing church is on a winding lane up a hill. The alluring familiar sound of the bandoneon invited me almost subconsciously down the old stone steps between the iron railings.

This venue's entrance is welcoming with pretty coloured flickering candles on the floor in the doorway. The light theme continued inside with multi coloured strands of light coiled and draped on the walls and along the skirting. The brightly lit hall has an unusual arched bricked ceiling. Perhaps this is common in crypts, who knows?

Visiting teacher, Jill who was (surely not… it cannot be possible… brace yourself…) not from Buenos Aires!
Female teacher with female assistant, how unusual is that?

Beginners
7.30-8.15, around 20 people, lots of walking, first solo, then beside a partner arms linked followed by open and closed embrace. Listen to the music, tune into the music, hear the beat, walk in time (or not). She was clear and informative and explained that the closed embrace begins with a hug, then the arms naturally find the right position as you open out.

Intermediates
8.15-9.00, around 40 people, a good class teaching us steps for the Vals, with frequent rotation, no waiting, happy, smiling, helpful, supportive leaders.

Milonga
Busy night, many arrive really early for the milonga, apparently to bag their favourite seats in true European deck chair style. They watched the class or chatted loudly forcing Nikki to interrupt with requests for them to keep the volume down. She later interrupted the milonga more than once with announcements. Is that absolutely necessary? It was irritating and not just for me.

That night I learned something about "getting dances" i.e. that it’s best to avoid sitting next to a Planchadora at a milonga. Confused? I’ll let jivecat or JonD explain.

If you want to be asked to dance don’t sit next to a poorly presented, negative, smelly, grumbling woman. I half listened to her complaints/moans/criticisms of the men in Tango and stories about how they never ask her to dance. Coincidentally, on the two occasions she left our table I was politely asked to dance by total strangers. Bingo!

On leaving the venue at the end of my great night, I had to sneak past snogging couples in two different doorways before I could get out. I needn’t have worried as they were clearly concentrating on each other and too busy to notice anyone passing by.

Saturday 17th February 2007
Paul and Michiko night

The regular teacher Paul, takes soporific to a new level. Not sure how any of us stayed awake with his monotonous, tedious, dreary, slow, teaching style. No inspiration there then.

Beginners
7.30-8.15, around a 12 people, walking and more walking, the basic and the cross.

Intermediates
8.15-9.00, around 30 people, steps for the milonga. Teaching was unclear and inconsistent with basic omissions.
Some people didn’t get it.
Some people dropped out.
Pity

Milonga
Different crowd to last time and not nearly so busy as before. I learned more about “getting dances” from a little lady dressed in black who unsurprisingly attracted heaps of attention.

Perhaps it was because of her proportions. Suffice to say that a team of skilled professionals could greatly reduce her mammary glands and still leave her well endowed.

Perhaps it was because of her attire. There are short skirts and there are even shorter skirts, however, hers was more like a well placed bandage, providing a discreet pubic covering.

Perhaps it was because of her shoes. They were definitely not made for dancing. They were not even made for walking. They were intended for an entirely different activity and not a public one. Bright red with vertiginous heels, they made the Comme it Faut specials look like loafers. These shoes lacked style or elegance and with such pointed toes she could have easily performed surgical incisions.

One man made me laugh as he commented on her presumed intentions for the evening and as she did not appear to be there for the dancing he hoped that her evening would be a success. (Would be a shame for her efforts to be wasted!) He also said that her shoes spoke volumes. Perhaps they only needed to say two words, the first, a verb in the imperative and the second, a personal pronoun.

Hopefully my grammatical terminology isn’t too rusty but if you’re in any doubt PM jivecat for an explanation!

I enjoyed both nights at the Crypt and I’d go again regardless of whose night it is. With almost equal numbers in all classes, frequent rotation and friendly milongas, they were both fun.




the journey continues...

[JonD]

Wow, I had a lovely afternoon and evening! I bunked off work and drove down to the Mango with that delicious combination of having an unexpected treat, being a bit naughty and feeling just a tad guilty that I was going dancing instead of working. Julie wasn't there when I arrived so I had some lovely dances with a couple of other people for 30 minutes or so. Then Julie and I spent the best part of 2 hours working on stuff from her lesson, playing with figures she'd been shown on Wednesday and generally having a great time. It was working well, I picked up the repeated reverse crosses and repeated alteracions really quickly and Innes came over and gave us some tips when we went wrong. Innes and Fernando taught a really good class on leading crosses in interesting and different places - like when the leader is taking very small back steps in a circle. Excellent!

We went to the pub for dinner and ate far too much so I felt really heavy in the evening - it was a truly humungous meal. Julie and I had a couple of tandas and then I danced five or six tangos with Issie. Her giros were a revelation; absolutely smooth (no "up and down" movement at all ), she provided the power for the turn and was absolutely on the circumferance of the circle. I just stood there on one foot and rotated like I was on a magic carpet - it felt like I couldn't have mucked it if I'd tried. Everything else about her dancing was great but I've never experienced anything like those giros with any other follower.

Originally Posted by Feelingpink

When you say she slowed down every movement - was she actually making the timing slower or being just behind your lead?

She was really slowing stuff down, not being behind the lead. Sometimes she was taking 3 or more beats to complete the step into a cross; that's fine sometimes but she was doing it pretty much all the time. Maybe she was hearing the music in a completely different way to me. She wasn't there yesterday but I'll try and get another dance with her today or tomorrow and see what happens.

I rather like that "behind the lead" thing; it can give a lovely coquettish "hmmm, OK, I'll accept your invitation" feeling to the dance. Obviously, there are times when it's inappropriate but it's one of those things the follower can do to really contribute to shape of the dance.

And do update us on how Julie reacts to your "be a Bull, scare the pants off them" technique ....

On second thoughts .... I'm really not very brave (and anyway, making women laugh seems to work much better - or so I've been told)

Originally Posted by CeeCee

Perhaps it was because of her shoes.

There was a woman at TangoValley the first year we went who was (how shall we put it?) inappropriately flirtatious. She had a very peculiar pair of shoes which were mainly black but had bright red, pointy toes. Everyone agreed that they reminded us of a certain, rather unsavoury, part of a dog's anatomy.

The Crypt sounds fun. You're right about not sitting next to confirmed planchadoras though; I'm conscious of the danger that the lady I ask will refuse and then I'll either feel rotten about walking away or feel obliged to ask the smelly nightmare. There are only a very, very few "avoid at all costs" followers around but sitting next to one is definitely a bad idea.

I'm seriously considering bunking off work again today; there have to be some perks to being the boss and Ann, my wonderful but scary Business Partner, is in France so I won't be in immediate danger of evisceration.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by JonD

Your classes sound great. By the way, I spoke to Fernando Guidi on Tuesday and told him to give you a hard time when he comes to Norwich!

I'm afraid he's doing Fridays which are no longer free for me
But also, I just found out that while he's here, he's only doing the intermediate classes, so I would've missed out anyway.

[CeeCee]

Phew, thanks Juan, you saved me from myself. I'm so glad you posted because I was just about to get involved in the inflammatory "Black on Black Crime" thread. Thankfully, I've calmed down now and I'm all lovely and calm and dreaming of Tango again.

Originally Posted by JuanD

she provided the power for the turn and was absolutely on the circumferance of the circle.

I don't get it, how does she have the opportunity to provide the power for the turn if you are leading the pace of the dance?

Originally Posted by JuanD

She was really slowing stuff down, not being behind the lead. Sometimes she was taking 3 or more beats to complete the step into a cross; that's fine sometimes but she was doing it pretty much all the time.

Okay Jon, I need your help here because I still don't get it. If she is slowing down the timing so much then she isn't following your timing is she?

I agree that taking 3 or more beats to complete the step into the cross sounds delicious but the how can she make that decision? What about the leader's timing? I thought it was a heinous crime to interrupt the timing. We are repeatedly told that a good follower can do what she likes to contribute towards the dance so long as she doesn't affect the timing.

Originally Posted by JuanD

... so I won't be in immediate danger of evisceration.

Woah, evisceration, what a great word. I had to look it up so thanks to you I've added it to my vocabulary.

[Feelingpink]

The giro partner sounds amazing - does she look as smooth when you're watching as it feels when she is your partner?

Go to tango early ... you know you want to ... besides, you're just going from one strong woman to a whole roomful

[JonD]

Originally Posted by Gav

I'm afraid he's doing Fridays which are no longer free for me
But also, I just found out that while he's here, he's only doing the intermediate classes, so I would've missed out anyway.

Gav, book yourself a private lesson with him for the Saturday or something - you won't regret it. Ask him about walking, intention etc. and I'm sure he'll open your eyes to how you can work to develop your dancing. Believe me, it's worth it.

Originally Posted by CeeCee

I don't get it, how does she have the opportunity to provide the power for the turn if you are leading the pace of the dance?

It felt really lovely; I led the giros and indicated the pace and she followed that, staying in line with my chest as I rotated. It felt like I didn't have to generate the energy to pivot (although I'm sure I did to some extent) so I had bags of time to do a lapis or whatever. Issie kind of picked up on my intention to turn at a particular rate and I could cause her to speed up or slow down by varying the amount I was disassociating. Most of the time in giros I feel that I'm either "dragging" the follower round to keep up with my turn - she's behind my turn - or, more rarely, that she's belted off in front of me. Issie was just delicious; everything seemed so easy and balanced and I had so much time. (Julie is going to book a private lesson with Issie to work on giros so she can learn the trick of it; I'll try to explain more when Julie has explained to me).

Originally Posted by Feelingpink

does she look as smooth when you're watching as it feels when she is your partner?

Yes. Issie is a lovely, balanced dancer. She does a lot of nuevo stuff and is equally happy in close or open embrace. She's about 6' tall, long and lissome, very stylish and dances with complete concentration and commitment. She's only 22 and is disgustingly good - if she wasn't such a lovely person I'd hate her!

Originally Posted by CeeCee

If she is slowing down the timing so much then she isn't following your timing is she?

She certainly wasn't following my timing! In fact, it got rather frustrating. I use syncopations quite a lot and rely on the follower picking up on the accelerations and decelerations. This was like dancing under water - she was ignoring my lead for changes in pace and taking her own, very slow, timing for almost the whole dance.

We are repeatedly told that a good follower can do what she likes to contribute towards the dance so long as she doesn't affect the timing.

I think it's OK for the follower to alter, or influence, the timing every now and then. You're right, it's really disruptive for the leader if it is happening all the time and I wouldn't want to dance often with someone who effectively removed my ability to lead. Having said that, there are times when the follower wants to express something in the music and I think the leader should make space so she can do that. Julie will sometimes simply delay taking a step, holding for a beat or so before accepting my invitation to make the step; she's sensitive to my intention and won't do it if I'm "being a bull" and also ensures that I'm on balance and able to maintain the pause. Followers can take double-time steps on their own initiative or "suggest" a move to double or half time steps in the walk by varying the resistance they provide to the leader. As Feelingpink was saying, they can also work "just behind" the lead. (Which feels a bit like being right on the end of the beat in blues - as Roger Chin was saying last weekend you can break beat "ONE" down into "O", "N" and "E" and completing your weight transfer on the "E" gives a completely different feel to arriving on the "O". Same principle but with a lead rather than a beat. Does that make sense?) Those things work well and give a lovely flavour to the dance. So, I wouldn't agree that the follower should never affect the leader's timing but I'd certainly caution against doing it throughout the whole dance.

Oooh - I have a horrible feeling that I'm going to take the afternoon off. If I do then I suspect Ann will be giving a practical demonstation of evisceration when she gets back on Monday. It is a lovely word but I suspect the reality will prove rather uncomfortable!

[Feelingpink]

Originally Posted by JonD

{very good tango stuff}

Oooh - I have a horrible feeling that I'm going to take the afternoon off. If I do then I suspect Ann will be giving a practical demonstation of evisceration when she gets back on Monday. It is a lovely word but I suspect the reality will prove rather uncomfortable!

Then you have about one hour to be very, very productive!

[David Bailey]

Finchley, 22dn Feb, Artsdepot
I haven't said much about these classes this term - mainly, because, frankly, they've been a bit pants on the whole.

I think Artsdepot (the venue managers) are messing around artlat (the teachers' organisation) a bit, they decided to only have 1 class this term for both beginners and improvers.

But artlat haven't covered themselves in glory either - for example, on week 1 there was no teacher (Mina was supposed to be taking it but was out of the country).

Giraldo (Mina's hubby) took us from Week 2 onwards, which was great as he's a very good teacher, but yesterday we saw the Return Of Mina.

Unfortunately, it looks like hubby and wife aren't talking to each other, as she put us through our paces as from the start - walking, pivoting and so on - without any idea of what we'd been doing over the past few weeks with Giraldo.

This wasn't helped by the fact that she seemed to be particularly focussed - no "moving partners on", lots of hesitation whilst she thought about what to do next, and no clear structure.

And, to add insult to injury, Artdepot have decided for some reason to cover the lovely smooth wooden floor with taped-down rubber matting. Which doesn't exactly do wonders for the knees when attempting pivots...

Having said that, I did get a couple of tips, which may be worth passing on:

• When walking, think of the foot as "round", so weight gets transferred to it in a continuous motion, rather than just "heel then toe". I tried this and it smoothed out my walk a little I think,
• When leading the cross, don't take a very large step on the penultimate step (i.e. the step before the cross itself), as it'll provide more space for the lady to cross in.

The last few terms at Artsdepot have been great - this one, not so much

[CeeCee]

Originally Posted by JonD

She certainly wasn't following my timing!

In fact, it got rather frustrating.

she was ignoring my lead for changes in pace

taking her own, very slow, timing for almost the whole dance.

I think it's OK for the follower to alter, or influence, the timing every now and then.

You're right, it's really disruptive for the leader if it is happening all the time

I wouldn't want to dance often with someone who effectively removed my ability to lead.

Who was leading?

I'm confused. It was frustrating and disruptive and she was doing her thing "for almost the whole dance" and not "every now and then", so when, how and why did you enjoy it so much?

[JonD]

Originally Posted by CeeCee

I'm confused. It was frustrating and disruptive and she was doing her thing "for almost the whole dance" and not "every now and then", so when, how and why did you enjoy it so much?

Two different followers; two different tandas. Sorry, I was being a bit confusing (well, I knew what I meant).

"Miss Slow Down" was a teacher I danced with on Tuesday night. It would be fair to say that I didn't enjoy the experience and was grateful when she said "thank you" after two tangos. I'd like to dance with her again though to find out if it was a one-off or if our styles are just completely incompatible.

"Miss Giro from Heaven" was Issie (who also teaches) who I danced with last night. I want to dance with her again and again and again!

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Giraldo (Mina's hubby)

I remember Giraldo and Mina from an event in Truro, of all places. It must have been more than 3 years ago; I was stumbling round the floor and commented to Julie, "That couple in front of us are pretty good" - it was Giraldo and Mina. Sorry to hear that the classes are so confused though.

No AT for me this afternoon; one of my senior managers has just heard that his wife is being rushed into hospital for an MRI scan this afternoon - some kind of viral infection evidently. Fingers crossed, positive waves and tons of healing for her from everyone please! I'm going to stay here and provide decision making cover.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

• When leading the cross, don't take a very large step on the penultimate step (i.e. the step before the cross itself), as it'll provide more space for the lady to cross in.

• Interesting - our 'summer teachers' seemed to be saying the lady should take a larger step just before the cross to allow room. But then they had us walking with a cross on every third step...

Current teacher (last week was the first time I met him and tonight is his last night, he's just filling in while the regular teacher is away) - hasn't been teaching a lead for the cross in beginners - doing the basic 8 - but as I demoed with him last week I know he does lead it himself, so he probably brings in how to lead it at a later point.

I'm probably going to go to class tonight, even if I do spend most of the time watching.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Interesting - our 'summer teachers' seemed to be saying the lady should take a larger step just before the cross to allow room. But then they had us walking with a cross on every third step...

As I understood it, for a three-step sequence, it's:

• Step 1 (man's right forward, lady's left back): big step
• Step 2: (man's left forward, lady's right and diagonal back): smaller step
• Step 3: (man's right to together, lady's left to cross): normal size.

Originally Posted by Lynn

Current teacher (last week was the first time I met him and tonight is his last night, he's just filling in while the regular teacher is away) - hasn't been teaching a lead for the cross in beginners - doing the basic 8 - but as I demoed with him last week I know he does lead it himself, so he probably brings in how to lead it at a later point.

Hope springs eternal, huh?

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

As I understood it, for a three-step sequence, it's:

• Step 1 (man's right forward, lady's left back): big step
• Step 2: (man's left forward, lady's right and diagonal back): smaller step
• Step 3: (man's right to together, lady's left to cross): normal size.

• Umm, it was months, ago, I haven't done much AT since, I'm easily confused... ie - I'm probably wrong.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Hope springs eternal, huh?

We were just dancing while he explained lead and follow to the beginners, and I must have gone 'oops' (quietly) at one point and not crossed 'cos he muttered 'no, you were right, I didn't lead a cross'. So 'leading a cross' is clearly part of his vocab. He's only here one more week so we won't get to find out I guess .

[JonD]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

When leading the cross, don't take a very large step on the penultimate step (i.e. the step before the cross itself), as it'll provide more space for the lady to cross in.

Yup, that works well. It's not a bad idea to do the same when you want to switch from walking "in front" to walking "outside" - make the last step "in front" slightly smaller to give yourself a little more space to get your leg round to the outside of the follower's leg.

As with everything in AT, I don't think there's a set sequence of step lengths when leading a cross. As a leader, you can even not step at all - just don't lead the follower to take a huge step if you're going to try that or you'll end up doing a volcada yourself. I quite often use crosses to get from closed to open embrace or vice versa, using bags of intention to get the follower to step long while stepping short myself or leading her short and stepping slightly longer myself.

If you want to stop a determined "automatic cross on 5" type you can always lengthen your step and place your foot further to the right than you would normally. That way she trips over your foot if she tries to cross but is OK if she just takes a step. Naughty but nice!

Originally Posted by Lynn

I'm probably going to go to class tonight, even if I do spend most of the time watching.

You be careful of your back - no ochos! Consider yourself nagged.