Learning Tango

[timbp]

Had the first class of my beginner Tango course last night.

4 couples and 2 to 3 single guys in the class; no rotation. (beginner and improver classes simultaneously in the same room, one guy kept swapping between the two classes)

Started with walking forwards, then backwards. Then the same thing with a partner, follower's hands together on the leader's sternum to make the connection. Concentrating on leading from the point where the follower's hands were placed. We single guys paired up for this exercise, taking turns leading and following.

Then the embrace. Fairly open, almost exactly what is shown on the Jango
DVD.

Then the 8 step basic. Men and women were separately taught the footwork, then back to couples and practise for the rest of the class, with the instructor stopping every few minutes to explain a further point. We single guys took turns practising with the teacher.
A bit of discussion of weight transfer and ensuring the lady's weight is on the correct foot when you start. A bit on rotating the frame, isolated from the hips.

Not a lot of mention of lead and follow once we got into the 8 step basic. Occasional reminders to the ladies not to step until they are led, but I still think the couples were falling into the trap of just walking through the pattern, or of the girl leading when the guy forgot the pattern. That was one advantage of going as a single -- I got to practise with the teacher, who was not anticipating or leading.

At the end of the class I realised that although music had been playing most of the time I had hardly heard it, and hadn't danced to it at all. I was concentrating just on getting the connection and the walk.

[LMC]

Originally Posted by timbp

A bit on rotating the frame, isolated from the hips.

- not covered in my Tuesday class, but some of it I "got" intuitively from other dance experience (particularly some of the fab workshops I've been on).

The follower *can* feel a cross-step lead if the frame rotation from the leader is correct - I closed my eyes a few times last night to improve my 'sensitivity' to the lead and there was a definite difference. The isolations are the tricky bit for most of us - including me

Where are you learning Tim?

[timbp]

Originally Posted by LMC

Where are you learning Tim?

Sydney. www.clubdetango.com.au

I decided last year I wanted to try AT this year, and picked this school because they were close to where I lived, although I've now moved house so they're not as convenient as they would have been.

[CeeCee]

Originally posted by Lynn on another Tango thread not far away
Sign up now for the Forum Tango Addiction Association. Membership involves posting on the various Tango threads, and the occasional TTD (Tango Thread Diversion) elsewhere.

This is a great idea Lynn, I’m definitely interested in joining the FTAA. I’ve hardly looked at another thread on the Forum since I discovered tango seventeen days ago, consequently, I’ve hardly got a clue what’s been going on. I’ve been too busy surfing the web for anything vaguely tango related, buying tango music, searching for the perfect tango shoes, moving furniture at home to practise steps, taking mirrors off the wall so I can see what my legs are doing and going to tango lessons.

My first classes were in North London so I posted on the Ballroom/Latin/Tango options in North London thread but now I’ve found super classes just minutes from where I live south of the river so I’m gonna hang out here and post on this thread with you guys.

Anyone else out there been to Federico's classes? They're held in venues from South London to Cumbria. I've enjoyed three of Federico’s classes at different venues on Saturday, Monday and last night, I like his style and it suits me. I understand that his style doesn’t suit everyone, frankly why should it? We are fortunate to have so many teachers and venues to chose from. (I know it would be grammatically more accurate to say ‘venues from which to chose’ but does anyone actually speak like that?)

Originally posted by DJ on the other thread I just mentioned
I've heard mixed reports of Frederico, but I'd like to give his classes a try.

Then you can decide for yourself right?
Mixed reports about a dance teacher? Nothing new there then.

Originally posted by LMC on the same thread as the last two quotes
Someone told me tonight that his Friday classes in Covent Garden are big on sequences and low on technique. Not attractive, but dunno 'til you try

Then you can decide for yourself right?

We are lucky to meet people who have been to other classes. I’ve heard that his Friday classes in Covent Garden are the best of all of his venues. I can’t comment cos I haven’t been.

Someone told me that they thought he was a bit flash. I’d be surprised and to be honest a tad disappointed if he wasn’t. As a dance teacher I expect him to have a big personality, works for me.

Federico’s classes are well attended by some pretty good dancers. I’m too new to this game to consider the level of their technical ability all I know is that the leaders I’ve met have been friendly, patient, helpful, courteous and interested in learning. The classes leave me inspired enough to want more and more and more.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by CeeCee

I’ve hardly looked at another thread on the Forum since I discovered tango seventeen days ago, consequently, I’ve hardly got a clue what’s been going on. I’ve been too busy surfing the web for anything vaguely tango related, buying tango music, searching for the perfect tango shoes, moving furniture at home to practise steps, taking mirrors off the wall so I can see what my legs are doing and going to tango lessons.

Yep, sounds like you are in the first week or two of tango stage... all sounds familiar! Except the shoes bit...(Yes, I'm not thinking about buying more dance shoes. Yes, this is me posting. )

Originally Posted by CeeCee

I’m gonna hang out here and post on this thread with you guys.

[LMC]

Originally Posted by CeeCee

... all I know is that the leaders I’ve met have been friendly, patient, helpful, courteous and interested in learning. The classes leave me inspired enough to want more and more and more.

That's all that really matters - I'm sold - when are we going?

[jivecat]

Originally Posted by DianaS

Where who CAN I COMEEEE!!!!

http://www.tangoloughborough.co.uk/Classes_Page.htm

There's a practica at the University at 12:30 to 2:00 on Saturday lunchtime and a class & milonga on Sunday eve at Market Harboro. I enjoyed both but have only been once or twice so far.

[LMC]

3rd lesson...

Not such a good night last night, but in a "dark before the dawn" kind of way - those frustrating moments when you *know* what you're supposed to be doing, but can you do it? Can you hell!

Started out with walking (of course). And more on hip isolation, described very well by Tim, above. I really have to focus to get that right, so it all tends to fall to pieces when I have a partner and I'm trying to concentrate on following as well!

Lots of work on barridas - unfortunately, no-one was really getting it (well, none of the leads I danced with + me, can't speak for the other followers), so although I "got" what was supposed to be happening from watching, I never really got the opportunity to practise. Shame.

Only had a couple of minutes with Hamza in the rotation and he pinpointed the problem of not 'isolating' correctly when I'm with a partner - when the lead's weight changes, the follower's foot 'searches' for a spot and then the weight changes. As Hamza put it "The lead is leading the feet" (not the upper body, which I was moving first and the feet following...).

The Hamza "gem" tonight was visual (no quotable quote unfortunately) - he was demonstrating how the lead can shift their weight, and to a casual observer, may not appear to be moving - and the follower still steps. Most impressive (and rather amusing watching the demo's feet moving out in all directions for no apparent reason cruel that I am and just jealous that I didn't get more opportunity for practice with Hamza).

So my "take home" is really to think about body isolation. Oddly enough, it's something I've been thinking about for the last few weeks in MJ (as in "I really need to improve"). Expect some thread resurrections!

[timbp]

Second lesson

I was the only unpartnered person tonight.

Started again with the walking forwards and backwards, and the connection exercise.

Then a talk about how the 8 step is just a practise exercise, and in actual dancing you use whatever steps you want.

Then a revision demonstration of the 8 step. The teacher first asked me if I could remember it and lead her to demonstrate it. I tried, but although I could remember where to move, I forgot to think about how to move. As soon as my foot bumped hers she sent me back to the line, and just explained and demonstrated it alone.

We then spent some time practising the 8 step. Teacher seemed happy with my leading of it that time, and left me while she went off to help the people who were struggling. A couple of the other women came to practise with me.

Then we added a couple of ochos into the 8 step. The women were first taught how to do the ocho, then the men were taught where we should be stepping and how we should be moving our chest to lead this. Then we partnered up to practise. I found this difficult because it hadn't been demonstrated. Although I knew where I was supposed to step and which way to rotate my chest, I didn't have a picture of what I was actually supposed to be leading the lady to do. The first couple of women I practised with were anticipating/backleading. This helped me get a feel for where I was supposed to lead them (assuming they were trying to move where they were meant to go).

Eventually I got a turn with the teacher. First try didn't work at all -- because she followed what I led, instead of what we were meant to be practising! But that was enough to clarify what I was meant to be doing. Before she could say anything about what I'd done wrong, I led it again, and got it right.

I felt I was leading too much with my arms rather than chest, but the teacher didn't say anything about that, although I heard her mention it to someone else. I hope that as long as I'm aware that's a possible problem, it won't become a problem.

I still was concentrating too much on the connection and the movement to pay any attention to the music. So still not dancing.

Although I feel I'm picking this up without too much trouble (at this early stage), I don't think I would have got past this class if I hadn't had my ceroc experience and understanding of lead/follow.

[LMC]

Originally Posted by timbp

... I don't think I would have got past this class if I hadn't had my ceroc experience and understanding of lead/follow.

I've been thinking the same.

On a difficulty scale of 1-10, if MJ is about 4, AT is about 37 I reckon

Lynn, we want to hear about your workshops! Please

[Msfab]

Originally Posted by LMC

I've been thinking the same.

On a difficulty scale of 1-10, if MJ is about 4, AT is about 37 I reckon

Only 37!

Its does get better! Now when Im with it (everything is connected) its about 11 and when ive lost (brain/body block thing) its more like 50!
But the satisfaction and euphoria after an '11' dance is definitely worth it!

[Lynn]

Tango at Scarborough (warning - long post!)

There were 4 progressive classes (2 each day) which was like a month of weekly classes only better as more concentrated. The initial class size was really too large - I suppose a lot of people wanted to see what AT was like - and of course to start properly you need to do lots of walking - not learn 'moves', so the numbers thinned out to more manageable levels as the classes went on.

The teachers were clearly more comfortable being on the floor in the middle of the class than on stage and they were able to do this from the second class onwards. (They couldn't have taught the more detailed footwork of the later classes from the stage anyway.) The numbers were almost balanced, only occasionally off when they told us to change partners - and it was still possible to learn a lot by observation when waiting.

Class 1 - walking (of course!) in pairs, women with hands on mans chest, a individual twisting exercise to introduce disassociation, and then back to walking, bringing in a side step as well.

Class 2 - they introduced the basic 8 step. Although I already knew this it was useful to practice it with different partners. They also did a demonstration dance

Class 3 - forward and backward ochos. Although I knew the basics of the women's footwork, I hadn't been sure of the lead for forward/backward - I didn't realise it was so straightforward! They reminded us of the twisting exercise in the first class for the woman to turn from the shoulders first. By this point the numbers were at a level when the teachers could walk round the class and help people where needed.

Class 4 - sandwich, from two different directions. This was completely new to me. What I liked was that they didn't just teach 'this is where the lady steps' but 'this is how to lead the lady to this direction and invite her to step here'. Not sure if I could follow this in freestyle yet but I would like to try.

General comments
I thought the teachers did an excellent job in getting people so far and at every stage they re-emphasised the lead from the chest and other basic principles. They were very approachable and helpful. Their method was to show us something, several times, from different angles, get us to pair up and practice while they observed, swap partners and they showed the step again with a few 'don't do this' illustrations on mistakes they had seen, then practice again.

My long experience of 2 weeks of classes ( !) and reading threads on here meant that I understood some concepts - this meant I was able to assist some partners who were even less experienced than me (eg I would wait for them to lead me, etc).

Then there were other leads who were much more experienced - they were so helpful in feedback and I learnt a lot dancing with them in the class - I could happily have danced for hours with some of them.

The Tango time in the blues room Sat night was just wonderful. Marc played a great range of tango music and I had some really dances. I know its not ettiquette to ask the men but I really wanted a dance with the teacher so I asked at the start 'can I have a dance at some point?' and then let him come and ask me. I would have been quite happy for that music to be on for another few hours - and I love blues so that's an indication of how much I'm falling in love with tango! Maybe it was because of the tango music on earlier but a few people were putting some tango into their blues and two people* led me in salida into ochos during dances. (*Viktor and Nigel, not that I'm name dropping!) Marc also played some tangoable tracks in his last set on Sun night but I only managed to find tango dancers for 2 of them (I had lovely dances to the others but I really wanted to be dancing tango!)

One thing that really crystallised for me this weekend was the waiting on one foot for the next lead in whatever direction. I think I did know this before but its becoming instinctive in my tango dancing now. For me it really reinforces the connection in tango.

I'm even more in love with Tango now. *sigh*

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by LMC

Only had a couple of minutes with Hamza in the rotation and he pinpointed the problem of not 'isolating' correctly when I'm with a partner - when the lead's weight changes, the follower's foot 'searches' for a spot and then the weight changes. As Hamza put it "The lead is leading the feet" (not the upper body, which I was moving first and the feet following...).

Ok - I'm getting confused now...in ochos I understood from classes at the weekend that the lead led (from the chest) the womans upper body to pivot and then the lower body and feet followed. But this sounds the complete opposite to what your teacher was saying. Is it different for different steps or have I misunderstood? (JonD, you back from hols yet? We need you on this thread!)

Originally Posted by timbp

I felt I was leading too much with my arms rather than chest, but the teacher didn't say anything about that, although I heard her mention it to someone else. I hope that as long as I'm aware that's a possible problem, it won't become a problem.

The teacher mentioned this several times at the weekend - not to lead with the arms for ochos -its probably an automatic thing to do if you are used to leading other dance styles with your arms. I think they got some people to try leading ochos with the woman having her hands on the man's chest and the man not using his arms at all.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Ok - I'm getting confused now...in ochos I understood from classes at the weekend that the lead led (from the chest) the womans upper body to pivot and then the lower body and feet followed. But this sounds the complete opposite to what your teacher was saying. Is it different for different steps or have I misunderstood?

I was wondering about that, too.

I've been taught to lead from the chest (or, OK, the belly in my case). And with ochos, it's definitely been taught to me as "head turns first, then shoulders, then finally feet" - the idea is that a pivot should follow naturally from the rest of the body having turned.

This is what the teachers have called "dissociation" - i.e. your top half is going one way and the bottom half takes a while to catch up with it.

Originally Posted by Lynn

(JonD, you back from hols yet? We need you on this thread!)

- but I think he's still off enjoying himself, the heartless so-and-so...

So we're back in blind-leading-blind territory for now.

[LMC]

Re: confusion - I was suffering from this last night as well! - which is partly why I didn't post until this morning, and only posted then because I didn't want to 'forget'.

Having had another few hours to think (obsess) about it,

I THINK but could more than likely be totally wrong

what I'm talking about is about the weight change for the follower - for the leader, yes, absolutely, they lead from the chest. If the follower is stepping "straight" back/sideways/forwards, then the foot goes first, the rest follows. If a pivot is involved then I assume that the follower pivots, then steps, then shifts the weight. No idea if that makes sense to anyone but me and would be delighted if someone (Jon?) will correct me

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by LMC

what I'm talking about is about the weight change for the follower

I think (!) you're still wrong

From what little I understand, the idea is that the body drives the feet, but they don't all move at once - it doesn't matter whether you're moving forward or back, leader or follower.

So dissociation should be symmetrical - i.e. you're both kind of facing each other all the time no matter what your feet are doing... Classic example is an ocho exercise, when leader does forward ochos and follower does backwards (or vice versa); if you don't dissociate the same way it could all go horribly wrong, I think...

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by LMC

If the follower is stepping "straight" back/sideways/forwards, then the foot goes first, the rest follows.

That sounds like what my teacher here has been telling us for a step back - you reach back with your foot first, then transfer your weight back.

For the ochos then what DJ was saying fits with what I understood from the Scarborough workshops. The teacher got us to do an exercise where we turned head, then shoulders etc right down to feet, 'like a spiral staircase' to show us the basic disassociation, then later applied this for doing ochos.

So maybe it depends on what sort of movement you want the follow to do?