Learning Tango

**Lynn** · 10th-January-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Long

It would be great to see an "AT in NI" thread - with its own character. Such a thread wouldn't "compete" with this one not try to emulate it.

Rather than hi-jack the north London thread any more, or start a 'NI' localised thread, I thought I would start a thread for anyone learning Argentine Tango to share their experiences.

I have now signed up for the AT class - haven't done any classes yet - they start next week.

jivecat · 10th-January-2006, 02:18 PM

Good idea for a thread. I'm hoping to start Tango classes on Sat lunchtimes at Leicester University soon, and have even found someone to practise with.

**Northants Girly** · 10th-January-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jivecat

Good idea for a thread. I'm hoping to start Tango classes on Sat lunchtimes at Leicester University soon, and have even found someone to practise with.

Can you post any more details about that please?

**JonD** · 10th-January-2006, 02:24 PM

I've got a feeling this is going to be a great thread - well, I'm going to enjoy it anyway!

I've been dancing AT since April 2002 but haven't attended classes or practiced as much as I'd like in that time. In the first couple of years there were some periods of two or three months where I didnt' dance AT at all despite having been really bitten by the bug. I think that was partly due to the frustration factor - I was used to being reasonably competent at MJ and found being unable to express myself on the dance floor really difficult. The fact that we were taught the "grammar" (technique, feeling, connection etc.) of AT without much, if any, "vocabulary" (moves, figures) made it very different to learning MJ. I used to bemoan my lack of "shapes" and wish someone would teach me flashy moves! Now I realise that AT is pure lead/follow - any part of any step can change at almost any moment. That, combined with the intensity of the connection with your partner, is what makes AT so special to me.

Now that I'm more confident and more competent I'm glad that we spent so much of the early lessons working on grammar. I was dancing in the South of France in August and there were people there who'd been dancing for more than 8 years who really did not have any "quality" in their movement: they had been taught lots of figures but with no underpinning of basic skills. To be frank, they didn't look that good on the floor and were pretty terrible to dance with. It's worth being patient and working on the basics. I practice my balance and pivots in supermarket queues; I think about where the weight is falling in my foot and being grounded as I walk down the street; I do "adornos" at the photocopier. I need to practice my backward ochos but I think doing that in public would attract too many strange looks.

I'm now a total AT junkie - it's become my passion. I love MJ and still work hard to try and improve my MJ dancing but if I had to choose only one dance it would be AT. Thankfully I don't have to make that choice!

Oh, and everyone nag John who runs Southport. I emailed him and it looks like we might have the "4th room" for a milonga one night at Southport in June. We need to remind him that there is significant demand. Anyone want to DJ?

**Lynn** · 10th-January-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jivecat

Good idea for a thread. I'm hoping to start Tango classes on Sat lunchtimes at Leicester University soon, and have even found someone to practise with.

I won't have a regular partner, but I know two MJ guys going so hopefully will get the chance to practice* a bit with them.

The class I am going to is listed as 8-10pm, so hopefully that will include some practice time.

(Or practise, sorry, I never know which I should use.

)

**Lynn** · 10th-January-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonD

I've got a feeling this is going to be a great thread - well, I'm going to enjoy it anyway!

It will be if you keep posting on it! Your contributions on the other AT threads have been very interesting!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonD

Oh, and everyone nag John who runs Southport. I emailed him and it looks like we might have the "4th room" for a milonga one night at Southport in June.

That was your idea then was it?

**philsmove** · 10th-January-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

I won't have a regular partner

If Leicester is like Bristol you don’t need to bring a partner

But as its bit like surf city (two girls for every guy) bringing your own partner can help. It’s certainly nice to have some friends to practice with afterwards

Just beware AT can be even more addictive than MJ

**Lynn** · 10th-January-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philsmove

If Leicester is like Bristol you don’t need to bring a partner.

You don't have to here either (not sure if Jivecat has to, or has just found someone else interested to practice with), though I have ensured I will have a few guys to practice with! I'm curious to see the ratios - salsa here is very unbalanced, but any AT classes I have been to have been usually only 1 or 2 ladies over (same with MJ so far)

Quote:

Originally Posted by philsmove

But as its bit like surf city (two girls for every guy)

I'm gonna be singing that all day now!

**JonD** · 10th-January-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

That was your idea then was it?

Well, now that you mention it .......... Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound as if it was my inspiration!

Quote:

I won't have a regular partner, but I know two MJ guys going so hopefully will get the chance to practice* a bit with them.

It's really useful if you get a regular partner - much more so than for MJ I think. Julie and I started AT at the same time but didn't know it. I'd seen her at MJ and danced with her but it wasn't until I went to the "ultimate contradiction in terms dinner" (an Argentinean vegetarian meal - it could only happen in Totnes) and saw her there that I realised that she was also learning AT. We danced to "Oblivion" (wonderful slow Tango by Astor Piazzolla) that night and the rest, as they say, is history.

**David Bailey** · 10th-January-2006, 02:53 PM

I did a tango last night with a lovely lady at Finchley (thanks for a great set Robin, by the way). It was scary, she's clearly massively better than me at AT, she was doing all the kicks, the forward ochos-into-weird backward movements, everything.

At the moment, I'm still mainly moving back and forward

**philsmove** · 10th-January-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJames

......I, she was doing all the kicks, .........
At the moment, I'm still mainly moving back and forward

I’m very much a beginner,

but from what a can make out, from my teacher,

If you are giving your partner time to do “all the Kicks” you are doing something right; may be your MJ experience is kicking in

The Passion Harem · 10th-January-2006, 07:50 PM

I am just about to head off for a few hours of freestyle in Edinburgh tonight. Last year I was hooked through our Edinburgh Tango Society Brunch.
http://www.edinburghtango.org.uk/tango/tangomain.php last Feb.
The music hooked me

. Since then I have done a beginners class and intermediate however not enough freestyle. Just getting to grips with Ceroc and Ballroom seem to take up most of my time and it fell away. However there was a Tango Winter Ball in December, dressed in my finest James Bond

I went along with E (who started the same time as me). We just got there a few minutes before three couples from Argentina did 3 wonderful 'freestyle' dances then all three just graced the floor

After that demo I saw how wonderful and free AT should be danced and I had just THE best night (10pm-2am) of freestyle dancing AT I have ever had. I never left that dance floor.
I hope to get loads of AT in before Scarborough - anyone else going? Yes the Dance Den at Soputhport would be a fine wee venue for some AT. I enjoyed a few Ballroom dances there but I must be honest the Blues room is my home @ Southport

There was some AT during the day last September in Southport in the Blues room however I was not confident enough then.

It is so much worth the time and effort to learn how to stand still and provide a frame for the follower to be creative in. I love it - sorry why am I am still here? I got AT go.....

**David Bailey** · 10th-January-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philsmove

If you are giving your partner time to do “all the Kicks” you are doing something right; may be your MJ experience is kicking in

It'd be nice to think so, but really all I'm doing at the moment is providing a pole for the ladies to dance around... OK, I can stop moving and stand still with the best of them, but I know for a fact that I'm not leading much.

It's the "kicking the foot away" and "taking control" part of it that totally eludes me.

frodo · 10th-January-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by philsmove

But as its bit like surf city (two girls for every guy)

I'm gonna be singing that all day now!

I don't know if it is at the moment, with the new year influx seen in other dance styles, but that hasn't been my experience in this area - I've not generally seen it very unbalanced and sometimes it's men over.

**JonD** · 10th-January-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJames

she was doing all the kicks, the forward ochos-into-weird backward movements, everything.

Sounds like she's "over-decorating" to me! You get that sometimes. She'll be doing lots of boleos and other adornments, though the forward ocho into weird backward movements is a new one on me! You can, as in all things AT, lead followers to do boleos (leg flicks) and such like but it isn't easy as the timing is kind of critical. After 3 months I'd be positively gob-smacked if you could lead them and would also be incredibly jealous! So, it's probably best to let her play - if you want her to stop then just create the intention for a step and she'll pick up on that. Philsmove is right, it's great that you can sense that she wants the space and have the confidence to give it to her.

There's a woman that I dance with occasionally who over-decorates - some adornments are great but if they don't fit the music it can get a bit silly. If she's going crazy I just lead a step and see how she sorts herself out!

Quote:

It's the "kicking the foot away" and "taking control" part of it that totally eludes me.

It's an illusion! In both barridas and sacadas you don't physically move the followers foot or leg. In a barrida (looks like a foot sweep) you lead them to take the step as normal but keep your foot gently in "kissing" contact with theirs as they do it. With a sacada you simply step into their space so it looks like your leg is pushing their leg away but again there should be just a hint of contact at most. It's all in the timing and accuracy - you need to be able to place both your and the followers feet exactly where you need them at precisely the right moment. I tend to do barridas by leading a side step and placing one of my feet between the followers feet and then leading their step keeping my foot in contact. That's a hell of a lot safer than trying to catch a moving foot with yours although I'm trying to work out how to do that in a giro at the moment (which explains why Julie is developing a limp).

What do you mean by "taking control"?

jivecat · 11th-January-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northants Girly

Can you post any more details about that please?

http://www.tangoloughborough.co.uk/Classes_Page.htm

Don't know if this link will work right, cutting and pasting is about the limit of my IT skills. I've emailed at least 3 people now concerning this class with no response. But various different people have assured me it takes place. They also have them in Market Harboro - might be easier for you to get to?

**David Bailey** · 11th-January-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonD

Sounds like she's "over-decorating" to me! You get that sometimes.

Could be. "Over-decorating", nice term, that

I think my experience of salsa dancing helped here - some women salsa dancers go shine-crazy, and I know enough to just let them get on with it (and, frankly, to remember not to ask them again).

Don't get me wrong, this lady was great, and the dance was fantastic - the fact that I can remember it, and that I'm analysing it now, speaks volumes for how intense the AT experience is. And frustrating, of course

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonD

What do you mean by "taking control"?

It's figuring out when she's stopped playing, basically. That's a real weakness in all my dance forms, I'm afraid

By the way, I found this Tango Wiki (another Wiki,

) - people might find it useful, the glossary is good I think.

JonD, I think you posted a set of Tango links a while back, could you maybe repost them in this thread?

**robd** · 11th-January-2006, 09:07 AM

I would like to learn AT, it can be such a graceful dance. There are classes in Cambridge but with work pressures and the fact I still have huge amounts to learn in MJ it's taken a bit of a back seat. At the end of the night at Nottingham on Saturday a Tango track was played and a lovely lady asked me to dance and 'Did I do tango?'. She clearly did, her ochos were silky smooth despite my complete lack of frame to assist her.

Robert

10th-January-2006, 02:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
jivecat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tubugi Island Posts: 1,514 Rep Power: 3 Reputation Total: 802	Re: Learning Tango Good idea for a thread. I'm hoping to start Tango classes on Sat lunchtimes at Leicester University soon, and have even found someone to practise with.

10th-January-2006, 02:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
JonD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Exeter Posts: 535 Rep Power: 3 Reputation Total: 688	Re: Learning Tango I've got a feeling this is going to be a great thread - well, I'm going to enjoy it anyway! I've been dancing AT since April 2002 but haven't attended classes or practiced as much as I'd like in that time. In the first couple of years there were some periods of two or three months where I didnt' dance AT at all despite having been really bitten by the bug. I think that was partly due to the frustration factor - I was used to being reasonably competent at MJ and found being unable to express myself on the dance floor really difficult. The fact that we were taught the "grammar" (technique, feeling, connection etc.) of AT without much, if any, "vocabulary" (moves, figures) made it very different to learning MJ. I used to bemoan my lack of "shapes" and wish someone would teach me flashy moves! Now I realise that AT is pure lead/follow - any part of any step can change at almost any moment. That, combined with the intensity of the connection with your partner, is what makes AT so special to me. Now that I'm more confident and more competent I'm glad that we spent so much of the early lessons working on grammar. I was dancing in the South of France in August and there were people there who'd been dancing for more than 8 years who really did not have any "quality" in their movement: they had been taught lots of figures but with no underpinning of basic skills. To be frank, they didn't look that good on the floor and were pretty terrible to dance with. It's worth being patient and working on the basics. I practice my balance and pivots in supermarket queues; I think about where the weight is falling in my foot and being grounded as I walk down the street; I do "adornos" at the photocopier. I need to practice my backward ochos but I think doing that in public would attract too many strange looks. I'm now a total AT junkie - it's become my passion. I love MJ and still work hard to try and improve my MJ dancing but if I had to choose only one dance it would be AT. Thankfully I don't have to make that choice! Oh, and everyone nag John who runs Southport. I emailed him and it looks like we might have the "4th room" for a milonga one night at Southport in June. We need to remind him that there is significant demand. Anyone want to DJ?

10th-January-2006, 02:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
David Bailey Formerly known as DavidJames Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Norf Lundin Posts: 13,963 Rep Power: 8 Reputation Total: 3756	Re: Learning Tango I did a tango last night with a lovely lady at Finchley (thanks for a great set Robin, by the way). It was scary, she's clearly massively better than me at AT, she was doing all the kicks, the forward ochos-into-weird backward movements, everything. At the moment, I'm still mainly moving back and forward __________________ Jivetango Godfather Inventor of the Masterclass Baboon-worrier extraordinaire

10th-January-2006, 07:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
The Passion Harem Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 123 Rep Power: 2 Reputation Total: 106	Re: Learning Tango I am just about to head off for a few hours of freestyle in Edinburgh tonight. Last year I was hooked through our Edinburgh Tango Society Brunch. http://www.edinburghtango.org.uk/tango/tangomain.php last Feb. The music hooked me . Since then I have done a beginners class and intermediate however not enough freestyle. Just getting to grips with Ceroc and Ballroom seem to take up most of my time and it fell away. However there was a Tango Winter Ball in December, dressed in my finest James Bond I went along with E (who started the same time as me). We just got there a few minutes before three couples from Argentina did 3 wonderful 'freestyle' dances then all three just graced the floor After that demo I saw how wonderful and free AT should be danced and I had just THE best night (10pm-2am) of freestyle dancing AT I have ever had. I never left that dance floor. I hope to get loads of AT in before Scarborough - anyone else going? Yes the Dance Den at Soputhport would be a fine wee venue for some AT. I enjoyed a few Ballroom dances there but I must be honest the Blues room is my home @ Southport There was some AT during the day last September in Southport in the Blues room however I was not confident enough then. It is so much worth the time and effort to learn how to stand still and provide a frame for the follower to be creative in. I love it - sorry why am I am still here? I got AT go.....

11th-January-2006, 09:07 AM	#18 (permalink)
robd Basically lazy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nr Cambridge Posts: 2,504 Rep Power: 3 Reputation Total: 1577	Re: Learning Tango I would like to learn AT, it can be such a graceful dance. There are classes in Cambridge but with work pressures and the fact I still have huge amounts to learn in MJ it's taken a bit of a back seat. At the end of the night at Nottingham on Saturday a Tango track was played and a lovely lady asked me to dance and 'Did I do tango?'. She clearly did, her ochos were silky smooth despite my complete lack of frame to assist her. Robert

11th-January-2006, 10:25 AM	#19 (permalink)
JonD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Exeter Posts: 535 Rep Power: 3 Reputation Total: 688