Learning Ballroom

[Petal]

Recently signed up for ballroom dance lessons, well about three months ago. I'm really enjoying it, but like ceroc, there are extra women, not many, usually 3 or 4. I don't have a ballroom partner and i wondered if it would make a difference to how well i progress if i did have a ballroom partner.

Anyone who has been through this i'd be interested to know their views of progress or lack of it without a fixed partner or if they think having a fixed partner is the key to better progress.

[Paul F]

Thats exactly the same question I kept asking myself when I started out.

At the time I was put off trying to find a partner as I simply didnt know any girls that I could dance with. There were not many around at my age then and certainly not in my area. The criteria I had in mind before finding my first partner was:

Where were they based
What level they were at
and
How committed they were to training and/or competing

Initially I just wanted someone to practice with. Athough my first teacher, Tony suggested he place me with someone, I really didnt like the thought of that (dont let the teacher railroad you into dancing with someone). I had been made to dance with some of the girls from my first school for my medal tests and didnt get on with them all that well. Nice people but the difference in leg length, height etc made it tricky to dance well with them.
I know this sounds a bit too intense if you just want to practice a bit with someone but with this style, I find you tend to mesh with your partner over time more so than MJ etc. It may not be worth searching and searching for the right person but it may benefit you in the long term.

Eventually (and i mean eventually - took ages) I found someone who was relatively close (about 40 min drive) and who wanted to take it a bit more seriously than most. As a result we met up in a coffee bar in Castleford, had a chat and decided to get together for a practice dance or two. I managed to find a hall and we talked and danced. It worked out really well.
To say it made my progress more efficient is an understatement. In the 3 or so years I was with her we worked on so many things and were able to learn together. Eventually we competed and did well and I still email her to this day. From there it was relatively easy to find dance partners as you recognise experienced people and can talk to them direct.
This, of course, was finding a female partner. Findng a male partner could be tricky also.

I look back now and I am so pleased I decided to find a practice partner. Although I love ballroom and sequence its simply not as generous in its social dancing as something like MJ is. Well, it wasnt in my areas in the NW and NE. Even at the social events you would get couples dancing with each other without asking anyone else. Understandable in many respects. Because of this I would say you have to find someone if you really want to get on.

The net is a hit-and-miss way of meeting people but, lets face it, is one of the few ways to do it. Send some emails, find some coffee shops and have a dance

Best of luck in your search. Hope you find someone.

[Petal]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Where were they based
What level they were at
and
How committed they were to training and/or competing

Initially I just wanted someone to practice with. Athough my first teacher, Tony suggested he place me with someone, I really didnt like the thought of that (dont let the teacher railroad you into dancing with someone). I know this sounds a bit too intense if you just want to practice a bit with someone but with this style, I find you tend to mesh with your partner over time more so than MJ etc. It may not be worth searching and searching for the right person but it may benefit you in the long term.

Best of luck in your search. Hope you find someone.

I'll definitely give this some thought. Finding someone who is at the same beginner level as me, who wants to learn and practice, but not compete, (i'm not into competitions in mj or ballroom, just doing it for fun) will be a challenge, but if i don't try i'll never know. And as you say finding a male dancer relatively close to this area who wants to learn may not be easy.

The teacher isn't the type to push you into being someone's partner so i don't have that problem.

Thanks for the advice.

[Paul F]

I just thought I would mention the site

www.dancepartner.com

Its where I found my first dance partner. Good site but to make contact other than a pre-written message requires payment

[Trish]

Hi Petal

I've been learning ballroom for a couple of months now. The little class I go to is actually mainly made up of Cerocers (as we all talked about it and brought other people along) and is fairly balanced men/women wise. I feel very lucky, as I have one of the guys I go to Ceroc with as my dance partner, and he is a very good lead, and has been doing ballroom quite a bit longer than I have. He often doesn't turn up till later in the class, so I have also danced with the teacher, and with one of the the guys I know from Ceroc, and have tried little bits with the other guys. I would say that as long as you get someone you get on with who is dedicated to leading properly, that in my own experience it's not that bad swapping partners, not at my level anyway. I do mainly dance with DJ (No, not David James!), and I guess I am perhaps more used to his lead, and maybe even a bit spoilt, and from the point of view of learning things, I think the fact he's good at ballroom really helps me. Sometimes though, I'm not as good as him, as I haven't been going that long, as he gets a bit frustrated by that I think. Paul is probably right though as far as the leg length thing goes, my dance partner is a bit taller than me, as does sometimes find I don't stretch out enough for him, but then I'm only 5'3", so there aren't many men that short!

Why don't you find a man you like dancing with at Ceroc, who is interested in the idea (and about your height?), and bring him along? Even if he doesn't work out as a partner, it's worth a go, isn't it?

Hope you're enjoying the ballroom anyway - I love it! And hope you find someone to dance with - might even be worth looking for someone on the forum, you never know!

[Petal]

Originally Posted by Trish

Hi Petal

Why don't you find a man you like dancing with at Ceroc, who is interested in the idea (and about your height?), and bring him along? Even if he doesn't work out as a partner, it's worth a go, isn't it?

Hope you're enjoying the ballroom anyway - I love it! And hope you find someone to dance with - might even be worth looking for someone on the forum, you never know!

Yes i really enjoy it and its great when on the rare occasion you go to a "dance" and you can waltz, or quickstep or foxtrot, just feels so good.

I'll seriously consider asking someone at ceroc, but since i persuaded my favourite dance partner to come to AT classes with me and don't think i can ask him (even though he's a far better ballroom dancer than me), doubt he'd have a night free, since he dances a lot.

But i'll observe over the next few weeks and see if there is someone with a bit of ballroom experience who i feel is the right height etc.

Thanks for your advice, i'll let you know how it goes.

[Lory]

Hi Petal, firstly I'd like to say a big To everything that's been said so far

I'm also really loving Ballroom (plus the other new styles of dance i've been introduced to)

I feel like the luckiest person in the world right now, 6 months ago I was enjoying MJ and MJ alone but I felt as though i'd reached a complete plateau.

Then by sheer luck, i met Kev, we got chatting and he mentioned that he'd been doing some Ballroom (I'll leave him to explain about his progress before I came along) and he invited me along to one of his lessons.

I absolutely loved every minute of it, I couldn't do it for toffee but our teacher is fabulous and slowly but surely we've been making steady progress, I can't for the life of me see how all those steps could be practised alone or remembered from one week to the next without practising in the interim with a partner, the progress would be painfully slow.

The fact we can practice our latin dances during freestyle at MJ venues is fabulous and being partners, it really doesn't matter if one of us cocks up or forgets something, the other ones there to help. It's brilliant to be able to give and receive honest feeback

We've since started Tango AND West coast swing (my brains on overload ) each week we learn new things to add to our repertoire.

We're very fortunate that we're both in similar positions, both equally committed to it, both quite flexible with our time, both have families and both 'allowed out' about twice a week!

Kev's quite a bit taller than me but I haven't found that's a problem at all. (I'm 5'4, think he's slightly over 6')

Personally, I wouldn't like to go to Ballroom lessons alone, as, it does seem to be heavily dominated by 'couples' and i've found, quite unlike MJ, as soon as the class is over, more than half the people go straight home and it's only the fixed couples that are left. I felt dreadfully sorry for the couple of single ladies that stayed for a while, as they literally had no chance of getting a dance.

As for getting a partner, I'd highly recommend it!

[robd]

I have been attending ballroom beginners lessons with the Cambridge Dancers Club since the start of last term (It's a Cambridge Uni club but they do allow non-students to attend) and have found it a mixed bag. It's cheap (£2.50 for 1.5 hours) but there's little personal attention (completely impractical really) and the venues are quite small which means lots of frustration trying to practice a waltz or quickstep as there always seems to be someone in the way and my floorcraft is nowhere near advanced enough to take appropriate evasive action. I attend with the g/f and we tend to stay 'fixed' which I don't think is too productive for me in learning to lead but the imbalance of men/women is such that I don't want to see her sitting out too often. I think our height difference is also proving problematical but can't really put my finger on the reason why though suspect it relates to the size of step I like to take. I prefer the ballroom dances to the latin ones and hate the Jive (far too energetic for my liking ). I think to get the most from these lessons we should really practice outside of the class environment but the opportunity never really seems to arise.

Good luck with finding a partner.

Robert

[Buttons]

By no means am I Ginger Rodgers on the dance floor but, having done ballroom on and off for a year or two now, I believe that you should dance with the same partner. Its all about balance, feeling comfortable with being up close and personal, styling and lots of hard work if you want to get to competition level. All of which work better if you have the same partner.

Even if you only want to have fun, the ballroom scene does not seem quite as relaxed as modern jive and most people only dance with one partner all night. If you went to a social dance night you may only get one or two dances. Get to work even if you have to share your chocolate with man (by way of a bribe) so as he agrees to partner you full time it will be worth it

[Ballroom queen]

Originally Posted by Buttons

By no means am I Ginger Rodgers on the dance floor but, having done ballroom on and off for a year or two now, I believe that you should dance with the same partner.............snip........

I wish people would stop perpetuating this rumour. When I first leant ballroom 10-12 years ago we always changed partners. At the classes I attend now we often change partner, although because of the above perception in one class not as much as the other, or as much as we should in that class.
Please can people go along with or without a partner and expect to dance with everyone, then things might move forward.
Moan over, thanks

[frodo]

Originally Posted by Petal

Recently signed up for ballroom dance lessons, well about three months ago. I'm really enjoying it, but like ceroc, there are extra women, not many, usually 3 or 4. I don't have a ballroom partner and i wondered if it would make a difference to how well i progress if i did have a ballroom partner.

While you're likely to progress faster with a partner, I think it tends to kill off the atmosphere if there isn't a critical mass of people who don't come with partners (and pushes the remainder towards finding partners/quitting).

Originally Posted by Ballroom queen

I wish people would stop perpetuating this rumour. When I first leant ballroom 10-12 years ago we always changed partners. At the classes I attend now we often change partner, although because of the above perception in one class not as much as the other, or as much as we should in that class.
Please can people go along with or without a partner and expect to dance with everyone, then things might move forward.
Moan over, thanks

This partners expectation is a bit self perpetuating. It doesn't have to be that way. I think under a third come with partners (and everyone swaps around) at one class I sometimes go to.

To a large extent it is up to the teacher though.

[Andybroom]

Originally Posted by frodo

This partners expectation is a bit self perpetuating. It doesn't have to be that way. I think under a third come with partners (and everyone swaps around) at one class I sometimes go to.

To a large extent it is up to the teacher though.

From personal experience in the past (when I did have a ballroom partner - she was my SO at the time - when she ceased to be my SO I no longer had a partner) it gets harder practically to do ballroom as a singleton the further advanced you get. Also it gets harder to find a partnerless person at the higher levels since everyone has already partnered up (with or without any non dancing relationship!).

It's because (whether or not you actually compete) much of the teaching assumes that you are a competition couple.

Don't think it's intrinsic in ballroom dancing though - just in the way it's organised.

Andy

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Andybroom

... it gets harder practically to do ballroom as a singleton the further advanced you get. Also it gets harder to find a partnerless person at the higher levels since everyone has already partnered up (with or without any non dancing relationship!).

It's because (whether or not you actually compete) much of the teaching assumes that you are a competition couple.

Don't think it's intrinsic in ballroom dancing though - just in the way it's organised.

This whole "fixed partners" thing is really beginning to worry me, I see a bit of it in AT too. I like the MJ mix-and-match approach...

[Cruella]

Originally Posted by Ballroom queen

I wish people would stop perpetuating this rumour. When I first leant ballroom 10-12 years ago we always changed partners. At the classes I attend now we often change partner, although because of the above perception in one class not as much as the other, or as much as we should in that class.
Please can people go along with or without a partner and expect to dance with everyone, then things might move forward.
Moan over, thanks

I must admit that this is a pleasant surprise! I've been wanting to start up Tango and Ballroom for a while but haven't done so because i thought i would need a partner. Finding one is proving impossible. I think that it would still be my preferred option so that i had someone to practice with outside of classes but may just pop along and see what the numbers/ratio are like anyway.

[Trish]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

This whole "fixed partners" thing is really beginning to worry me, I see a bit of it in AT too. I like the MJ mix-and-match approach...

Yeah, me too! And I got worried at one point that I'd be able to dance with my ballroom partner, DJ (David Joyce that is not you!), but not be able to follow anyone else. This hasn't been the case actually as I'll do little bits of Rumba or Cha Cha or ballroom jive with DJ, and with my friend Mark, who also goes to both classes. I do think doing both really helps though, because our ballroom class just tend to disappear at the end of the night, where at Ceroc we'll hang about teaching each other moves and chatting for ages.

Our class tends to be fixed partners, and when I have occasionally swapped, the teacher always looks a bit surprised. It doesn't seem so much that she disapproves of you, just that that's not the way she usually does things.

Robd - let me know if you want some practice, I'm not that great, but I'll give it a go if you like! Helen is really good (her folks were both b/r teachers I think), so it's worth talking to her if you're both around Thursday.

[Kev F]

Originally Posted by Petal

Recently signed up for ballroom dance lessons, well about three months ago. I'm really enjoying it, but like ceroc, there are extra women, not many, usually 3 or 4. I don't have a ballroom partner and i wondered if it would make a difference to how well i progress if i did have a ballroom partner.

Just over one year ago I started ballroom lessons. It took me four months, before I realised that I needed a partner, with which to practice and share this wonderful experience.

I took the route of dance partner agencies and tried three different ladies. I soon realised it was going to be a difficult match, as we also needed to be able to build a close friendship too. The closest I got was with a 21 year old dutch girl, who had a history of ballroom training, but was unable to dance the same nights as me (And maybe she was a little too damn young and fit )

I won't bore you with the various reasons why it didn't succeed, but would like to reinforce the fact that good dance partner matches, are hard to find.

By June of 2005, I had given up, but wanted to continue with the ballroom.

In July 2005 I met this young babe named Lory (obviously much fitter than that dutch girl ) at Chesham Ceroc. We danced a couple of dances and something felt good, almost natural.
Within a week I plucked up the courage to ask her to join me in my weekly private ballroom lesson and much to my surprise, she agreed

Anyone who has been through this i'd be interested to know their views of progress or lack of it without a fixed partner or if they think having a fixed partner is the key to better progress

There is no doubt that having a dance partner is a key to better progress for the following reasons:

• You don't become dependent on dancing with a professional teacher who compensates for your every mistake. Obviously you have the benefit of rotating classes for experiencing various leads/follows.

• You put more effort in because you're doing it for someone else too. More motivation is thus provided.

• And most importantly, it's more fun!

I'll seriously consider asking someone at ceroc, but since i persuaded my favourite dance partner to come to AT classes with me and don't think i can ask him (even though he's a far better ballroom dancer than me), doubt he'd have a night free, since he dances a lot.

Our teacher teaches ballroom and AT, so we are very spoilt and can switch between the two.

In summary, dancing in any form is about sharing what you learn with others. But there is nothing more special than sharing it with somebody who has been prepared to make that dance pilgrimage with you. Good luck

I would also like to add that in five months of partner dancing, Lory has learnt to dance waltz, quickstep, rhumba, cha-cha, foxtrot, argentine tango & westcoast swing to a level that we can both enjoy. Now that must be worth it?

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by Kev F

And most importantly, it's more fun!

I have seen so many people drop out of classes because they either feel they cant do it or simply that, after x number of months, it just doesn't feel right and they are not having fun.
More often than not it is because they are in a rotating class with others that simply cannot 'get it'. Without the practice time and stimulus of dancing with better dancers that do 'get it' these same people will not be introduced to the pleasure they can get from ballroom. Couple this with the fact that, in a class, the instructor cannot work with individuals, (very important in standard or latin), a lot of people end up dropping out.

Ballroom partner dancing is nothing like MJ so we cannot imprint the MJ ethos onto it. A lot of ballroom teachers refuse to teach group classes using the points above for that very reason. As an introduction its great but for anything more you have to have a partner.

Now if things were different and people DID get to dance socially as much as they do in MJ they might find that they do improve.

[Lory]

Originally Posted by Kev F

The closest I got was with a 21 year old dutch girl, (And maybe she was a little too damn young and fit )

Lory (obviously much fitter than that dutch girl )

Oooooh very close call but you JUST managed to scrape yourself out of trouble there mate!

Lory has learnt to dance waltz, quickstep, rhumba, cha-cha, foxtrot, argentine tango & westcoast swing to a level that we can both enjoy.

lucky, he's not too fussy!

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Ballroom queen

I wish people would stop perpetuating this rumour.

I have asked about local classes from people who go, and you do tend to need a partner to go along (or partner with another partnerless woman). I'm glad its not like that everywhere.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

This whole "fixed partners" thing is really beginning to worry me, I see a bit of it in AT too. I like the MJ mix-and-match approach...

More TTD...

Our Tango teacher rotated the class regularly and made a point of saying in the practica - 'Make sure you change partners'

I wouldn't like to do classes fixed partner - I think during the class rotation is where you meet and interact with other people and are therefore more likely to dance with them in the freestyle. But a partner for practising with away from the classes, or having a private lesson with from time to time, is another matter.