Learning West Coast Swing

[ducasi]

Hey, I thought we needed a thread (like the "Learning Tango" one) where folks who are learning West Coast Swing could talk about their experiences and get mutual support from each other.

I did my first "proper" WCS class last night with Graham Fox in Uddingston, not far outside Glasgow. (Here's his web site with details – note the class next week is in a different place!)

I really enjoyed the class, though I thought the pace was very quick... No-one was being left behind though, so it wasn't a problem – but it's a big contrast to a typical Ceroc beginner's class.

We were taught a fairly simple routine that had about 10 different moves in it – sugar pushes, turns, passes, baskets and whips. Really nothing I hadn't done before at a previous WCS "taster" class...

Remembering 10 moves in a (maybe?) 15-move routine, plus all the footwork, plus paying attention to my partner, plus keeping in time with the music was ... let's just say, tricky... But I thought I did all right.

I sat out the improvers class, though I didn't see anything fundamentally too difficult for me, but my brain needed a rest...

You can read more about the class here, on my blog.

I'm going to miss the class next week (Holiday Monday), and probably the week after (Southport), but if I can figure out my transport difficulties I'll be back the week after that!

So, anyone else learning WCS? How's it going?

[Tinkerbell]

Due to exams I have had to put my plans to start wcs on hold for a few weeks

I am going to start on Mon 19th June This gives me a couple of weeks to recover from Southport!

Really looking forward to it

Ducasi - hopefully I'll be able to help with travel. I'm sure we can work something out

Gill x

[BeeBee]

Originally Posted by ducasi

I did my first "proper" WCS class last night with Graham Fox in Uddingston, not far outside Glasgow
So, anyone else learning WCS? How's it going?

Aw, I phoned Mr McJester last night to see if he was going along to that class. I wasnt sure where it was, but really wanted to give it a go. It turns out he wasn't heading out that way and I ended up missing it. If I'd know you were going . . .

I'm not able to do next week as I am taking my mum on 'Mum's Mystery Monday', and the following week is Southport (at last!), so maybe another time after that?

Glad to hear you enjoyed it though . . .
cheers
Beebs x

[timbp]

Originally Posted by ducasi

So, anyone else learning WCS? How's it going?

I'm learning WCS. I guess it's going well.

Somehow WCS became the thing to learn (or, more accurately, the thing to teach) in ceroc in Sydney in 2006. I started going to WCS classes just to learn the basics as I thought everyone would be learning it.

After a couple of months I figured I knew the basics and the dance was nothing special, so I was going to drop it.
Then I saw Paul and Cat dance together. I wanted (I want) to dance like that.

So I went to every public class they taught in Sydney. When they left, I thought again about whether WCS was for me -- and I booked for every public class Jordan and Tatiana taught in Sydney (I considered the Melbourne classes, but decided following them to Melbourne might be stalking).

Where I'm at?

Since I started WCS, I've concentrated on the basics. But that suits my way of understanding. After several months of classes, and after Paul and Cat's classes, and after Jordan and Tatiana's classes, I'm now confident in the fundamentals. I believe I understand how the dance should work; I believe I understand connection; I believe I understand lead and follow.

And while I've been getting bored with just leading the basic moves, I've had fantastic dancers asking me to dance just because they knew I could and would lead the basics well.

Now, accpeting that I understand the fundamentals, I've made a deliberate effort to stop thinking about technique. I know I can do a six count or eight count pattern without thinking, so I've stopped thinking. I focus now on my and my partner's body. I think about where I want her and where I should be, and trust her to manage her own feet, and try to keep my feet under my body.

And it works!

I've now recognised a few partners with whom I'm comfortable making mistakes and who are good at WCS. So now I can play in practice time. I can play wiht timing; I can try my favourite ceroc moves in a WCS dance. Most importantly, I can move to the music and trust my partner not to stop me and say "I've lost my footwork", or (even worse) "You've missed your footwork".

--
Footwork? Who cares?
Dancing is about moving your body, not your feet.

[Geordieed]

Originally Posted by ducasi

We were taught a fairly simple routine that had about 10 different moves in it – sugar pushes, turns, passes, baskets and whips. Really nothing I hadn't done before at a previous WCS "taster" class...

Remembering 10 moves in a (maybe?) 15-move routine, plus all the footwork, plus paying attention to my partner, plus keeping in time with the music was ... let's just say, tricky... But I thought I did all right.

It is absolutely brilliant that there are more opportunities for people who want to learn WCS. But Ouch! That doesn't sound like the way to learn the dance. Congratulations to more people taking up the responsibility of teaching though. Going through the basic 5 moves in depth over a period of time enables beginner/intermediate moves easier to execute. The social lead/follow aspect of WCS makes more sense whether you are dancing with anyone from any part of this country or another country.

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Geordieed

It is absolutely brilliant that there are more opportunities for people who want to learn WCS. But Ouch! That doesn't sound like the way to learn the dance. Congratulations to more people taking up the responsibility of teaching though. Going through the basic 5 moves in depth over a period of time enables beginner/intermediate moves easier to execute. ...

I think this is a consequence of going for a similar model as Ceroc where beginners can start anytime, and don't need to worry about missing classes. If they were only covering just the basic 5 (what are the basic 5?) moves in depth each week, the folks who have been doing it for a few months wouldn't be learning much...

I think the basic idea in the class I went to is each week they start from the basics and just keep working it up until it gets too hard... Several times I was given the opportunity to drop out if I thought it was getting too much for me. Both the baskets and whips were optional, but I chose to do them.

So, I could have just done four or five basic moves and left it at that. I thought I could do more. I'm glad I kept going to the end of the beginners' class.

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by BeeBee

... If I'd known you were going . . .

Hey, never mind if you'd known... If I'd known you wanted to go!!!

12th of June is my next visit there. Hope to see you there... Maybe I could get a lift?

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

I am going to start on Mon 19th June

Looking forward to seeing you then too.

Hmm... I wonder if I'll be able to practice any time between now and the middle of June...

[Dorothy]

I have found learning West Coast Swing a positive experience and similar to what you've already said. It's much harder than modern jive, and needs to be taught systematically and progressively, i.e. unlike Ceroc where I'm often taught completely different moves each week (not that that's a bad thing, just different). I have been to Lindsey & Brady's classes through in Edinburgh on and off, unfortunately I can't go consistently which has hindered my progression I suppose. I have found the classes very rewarding and never felt overwhelmed enough not to give the intermediate class a go!

[sweet succa]

Originally Posted by Dorothy

I have found learning West Coast Swing a positive experience and similar to what you've already said. It's much harder than modern jive, and needs to be taught systematically and progressively, i.e. unlike Ceroc where I'm often taught completely different moves each week (not that that's a bad thing, just different). I have been to Lindsey & Brady's classes through in Edinburgh on and off, unfortunately I can't go consistently which has hindered my progression I suppose. I have found the classes very rewarding and never felt overwhelmed enough not to give the intermediate class a go!

I have also been to Lindsay and Brady's classes and LOVE it. This class is very different to anything I have ever been to before. The level of attention each dancer gets with poise, positioning, tension, compression, pace and styling is remarkable. Lindsay can be really funny with her jokes and Brady is witty too. I was welcomed as a beginner and felt really happy afterwards! There are lots of friendly people who help out so learning isn't so scary. I would thoroughly recommend it.

THE FOOTWORK - I found it took a few weeks to get the basics. It is worth sticking in as I think it looks really special when done well.

My soul is loving it!!

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by sweet succa

I have also been to Lindsay and Brady's classes and LOVE it. ...

Hi Sweet Succa...

Yeah, I've really enjoyed the classes with L&B too. Shame I can't get over to Edinburgh for their regular classes.

Where do you normally dance (Ceroc) and we can maybe have a go at a bit of West Coast?

[Alice]

Going to Cat and Lee's class tomorrow!! Yay I've been planning to go since I got here but other things got in the way

However, I am newly fired up after the class at the BFG, and decided it was time to do something about it I'm looking forward to getting my teeth into WCS in a proper class situation. Did a few classes in Sydney but not much so be nice!

[Mary]

Originally Posted by ducasi

I think this is a consequence of going for a similar model as Ceroc where beginners can start anytime, and don't need to worry about missing classes. If they were only covering just the basic 5 (what are the basic 5?) moves in depth each week, the folks who have been doing it for a few months wouldn't be learning much...

I think the basic idea in the class I went to is each week they start from the basics and just keep working it up until it gets too hard... Several times I was given the opportunity to drop out if I thought it was getting too much for me. Both the baskets and whips were optional, but I chose to do them.

I still enjoy doing the beginners classes as there is always something new to learn or techniques to consolidate. And as for the 5 basic moves...............I am amazed at the myriad variations and stuff you can do with those 'basic' moves.

I have been doing WCS classes for a few years now, and still find there is lots to learn in each and every beginners class with Cat & Lee, whether it's hi-jack variations and techniques, more in-depth focus on tension/connection/frame, or maybe more about posture and lines. There is no way one can get bored doing beginners classes because there is just sooooooooooo much that can be learnt.

M

[Sheepman]

Originally Posted by Mary

I am amazed at the myriad variations and stuff you can do with those 'basic' moves.

I have been doing WCS classes for a few years now, and still find there is lots to learn in each and every beginners class with Cat & Lee

If I miss the beginners class with Cat & Lee, it's not because I don't excpect to learn something, it's usually due to the traffic! Though they do have the advantage of knowing most of their students now, so they can tailor their beginners classes for whoever is there.

Greg

[Caro]

I've been totally hooked by WCS when I tried it at the BFG and even more when watching Gordon and his partner... I WANT to dance like that!!!

I'm getting SO frustrated that we don't have classes in Aberdeen. I've been told there are monthy classes in Dundee so I'll try and give that a go.

I'm thinking on going on a WCS holiday (I've made my mind to go on a dance holiday this year but haven't decided yet between ceroc; tango or WCS - life is complicated really and being a woman who change her mind regularly doesn't make things any easier ), but I'm not sure yet since I wonder what's best value for money: beginner WCS holiday / more experienced ceroc or tango holiday. Ha well... some serious thinking ahead

Any way... good luck Ducasi (thanks for the thread) and others lucky enough to have weekly classes in their area enjoy for those who can't!

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Mary

I still enjoy doing the beginners classes as there is always something new to learn or techniques to consolidate. And as for the 5 basic moves...............I am amazed at the myriad variations and stuff you can do with those 'basic' moves.

I have been doing WCS classes for a few years now, and still find there is lots to learn in each and every beginners class with Cat & Lee, whether it's hi-jack variations and techniques, more in-depth focus on tension/connection/frame, or maybe more about posture and lines. There is no way one can get bored doing beginners classes because there is just sooooooooooo much that can be learnt.

All I really mean is that there has to be some progression from these basic moves upwards, and beginners will likely have to be taught more stuff before they are ready to move on to improvers/intermediate classes...

Beginner's classes with *only* 5 basic moves offers no route for progression.

Also, each teacher will have his or her own way of structuring lessons, and while Cat & Lee may teach more advanced topics through basic moves, another teacher may choose to keep the basic moves basic during the beginner's class at least.

(Note, I'm not saying that's how anyone I've experienced teaches – I don't have enough experience of any WCS teacher's style to be able to generalise in this way, but it seems plausible.)

[Peter]

Dancing WCS in New York with 500 others, with a competition thrown in too, massively influenced my outlook on the dance!

Liberty Swing 16/17/18 Jun 06

- there is still space and flights too!
- 5 hours of free workshops with Robert & Deborah, Kyle & Sarah, Jordan & Tatiana, Robert Royston & Nicola
- freestyle dancing from midnight til 5 am on Fri and Sat nights overlooking the Hudson River and Manhattan
- $135 for the weekend dance competition (including the workshops)
- details at www.libertyswing.com
- at least 8 attending from London

If you arrive early, you can dance on Wednesday night at the Saloon and Thursday night too ...

But it doesn't come cheap - £360 for a return flight, plus $134/night for the (fabulous) hotel accommodation.

[Sheepman]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Beginner's classes with *only* 5 basic moves offers no route for progression.

I can't agree with this, though I do accept it will depend on the teacher's methods & style.

I'm not saying that all beginners classes should comprise of 5 basic moves, without variation. (I'm sure I've heard that in WCS there are basically 5 moves, and all the rest are variations! At Rebel Yell last year Kyle & Sarah held a class in which they taught literally hundreds of moves. Not by teaching each of them individually, but by teaching how variations can be achieved, and then applied to the basics.)

Progression from the beginners stage is not about learning moves, it is about the connection, lead & follow, the footwork becoming natural. Maybe the fact that there are often more men than women in Lee & Cat's classes is a reflection that it is the men that need to learn the moves, but for women they need to learn to follow. (Not that this theory holds in most MJ classes )

Greg

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Sheepman

I can't agree with this, though I do accept it will depend on the teacher's methods & style.

I guess what we're really discussing relates to individual teachers' method and style...

And the only point I was trying to make was that I don't think Graham's teaching method is "not the right way", but it may be different from what other people are used to. (I don't know.)

If I had had no experience of WCS before this week, I'd probably only have done a few basic moves for my first few classes while I got familiar with the footwork and such things...

From my experience in introductory classes at two of Lindsay's Dance Fever weekenders and with Graham at the BFG the other week, I think I had already covered every move that we did on Monday, felt OK with the footwork, and so felt able to do the whole class.

Actually, I think what we've really got here is a simple confusion between what I'm calling a move, and what everyone else is calling a variation...

When I talked about learning 10 moves, it's probably fair to say that these were maybe 5 or 6 moves, with some variations – e.g. a basket and a variation on it, a sugar push and a variation on it, etc...

Anyway, thanks for your comments, it's all helping me figure out how WCS works.

[sweet succa]

Progression from the beginners stage is not about learning moves, it is about the connection, lead & follow, the footwork becoming natural.



I cannot agree more - shake my hand

There is no point tryong to learn lots of flashy moves when the basics are not there, if the tension and connection is wrong then complicated variations look a mess and it feels awkward and unsafe.

In my humble and beginner opinion!!!!!

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Sheepman

... it is the men that need to learn the moves, but for women they need to learn to follow ... Greg

But raw beginners usually can follow ...

In my case, it is taking a long long time to undo the damage caused by too much focus on Ceroc "moves" and not enough study of dance technique. In my (very) humble opinion, this applies to both followers AND leaders (or women and men, as we call them in the ceroc world). Cat and Lee's superb dance technique has been developed through thousands of hours of traditional dance training.