What is an advanced dancer ?

[stewart38]

I've often wonder what a advanced dancer is ??

You do 6 weeks or so of beginners and then jump to the intermediates and there you stay for years. However many people would never call themselves 'advanced'. More of a comfort to be in the ‘advance intermediate’ etc ?

I said to someone recently I was a dancer she laughed and said you strutting your stuff doesn’t make you a dancer your not Freddie Astaire . Was he an exceptional dancer ?

Is Amir etc advanced or exceptional ?

I guess its all in degrees and perception ?

I like to think im ‘above average intermediate’ after 13/14 yrs of ‘dancing’

Originally Posted by Martin

I have in the past tried advanced classes at weekenders and believe me, most people are NOT advanced... most people are beginner / intermediate - or if being generous intermediate and thinking they are advanced.

Try doing an advanced class to 1000 people, of who 200 are advanced...

The majority of money is made through intermediates... but tell them they are advanced and dumb down the class

[Dreadful Scathe]

I agree with Martin, the vast majority are not "advanced" as most of us would call it. The problem or confusion comes because there are 3 scales (for the sake of argument) on which "advanced" can apply; the "comparing yourself to a professional" scale, and the "entering competition catagories" scale or "going to classes" scale.

Obviously when comparing yourself to Fred Astaire etc... most of us will not even make the scale - we'd be dismissed from it entirely with the label "social dancer". Which is fair enough, especially if you have no desire to be a pro dancer.

For competitions - it depends on which ones and what quality of dancer they attract. For example: compare the WC swing competitions in the U.S. to the Ceroc Championships. "Advanced" has got to mean something entirely different. Style, Location and Skill level all skew the label "advanced".

For classes - unfortunately a lot of them seem to be "advanced" simply because of some more complicated moves (talking exclusively about MJ of course) - which isn't how I think of advanced. So the label advanced here depends entirely on where,what,when and who of the event/class you are going to. Of course some classes tend to be a bit more specific and ask for particular abilities rather than relying on people to self-label themselves - that seems to be much less common in MJ though.

So to summarise - "Advanced" as a term is mostly meaningless

[ducasi]

Just think about what the word means –

"advanced – far on or ahead in development or progress"

If you are ahead of the pack, then you are advanced.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

So to summarise - "Advanced" as a term is mostly meaningless

I think advanced dancing is using the music.

IMHO dancers themselves have different abilities, talents or, for want of a better word, specifications. It's a bit like a car. Is there such a thing as an advanced car? But some cars are obviously better than others. It's the specification of the car that makes it better - and it's the same for a dancer. Somebody like Amir is particularly well specified, and I'm sure he's had many of the optional extras installed - although the trim is not one I would choose for myself

If you've been dancing for years you may not have improved your specification at all. Especially if all you've done is the dancing equivalent of 2,000 school runs. But if that's all you need to do you are perfectly specified for the task. On the other hand, if you decided to change your use you might need to be "pimped" to improve your specifications.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

On the other hand, if you decided to change your use you might need to be "pimped" to improve your specifications.

Now, wouldn't that be a great show, "Pimp My Dancing". I'd watch it, I'd even take part - although I might be a bit worried about where they'd install the sub-woofers

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Now, wouldn't that be a great show, "Pimp My Dancing". I'd watch it, I'd even take part - although I might be a bit worried about where they'd install the sub-woofers

Help, I'm answering my own posts. How many of us are there in my head today

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

So to summarise - "Advanced" as a term is mostly meaningless

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

I think advanced dancing is using the music.

You agree it's "mostly meaningless", but then you give a meaning?

There are beginner MJ dancers who can't lead or follow especially well but still know how to dance "using the music". I'd say your definition is "mostly meaningless".

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by ducasi

You agree it's "mostly meaningless", but then you give a meaning?

There are beginner MJ dancers who can't lead or follow especially well but still know how to dance "using the music". I'd say your definition is "mostly meaningless".

Seeing the difference requires advanced reading. I was talking about advanced dancing, I was agreeing with the statement about advanced dancers.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Help, I'm answering my own posts. How many of us are there in my head today

Coming soon to a Cinema near you "Being Andy McGregor" Starring Rocky as the Guy on the floor 4 1/2 dance room who finds a portal into Andy's head

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Seeing the difference requires advanced reading. I was talking about advanced dancing, I was agreeing with the statement about advanced dancers.

The statement you appeared to be agreeing to did not mention "dancer" or "dancing" anywhere in it.

Either way, still doesn't make your statement any more meaningful.

[stewart38]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Just think about what the word means –

"advanced – far on or ahead in development or progress"

If you are ahead of the pack, then you are advanced.

This suggests 'advance' has no meaning unless taken in context

You could have the most 'advanced' beginner of the class

Why do we have beginners and intermediates with a general agreed 'meaning' or is there ?

My friend always regarded himself as a beginner although he had been dancing 5/6yrs because he was/is crap (his words). I don’t think many people who dance with him would disagree

Intermediate a comfortable word that covers 70% of the Jive crowd

We seem to shy away from what is a ‘advanced jiver’

Using the word ‘Jiver’ I guess puts it in context re professional full time dancers etc

Does beginner and intermediate have more universal meaning ?

[Twirly]

Originally Posted by Beowulf1970

Coming soon to a Cinema near you "Being Andy McGregor" Starring Rocky as the Guy on the floor 4 1/2 dance room who finds a portal into Andy's head

That's a very scary thought...

Was half listening to some chap on the radio last night, talking about how our brains process music (just checked on the BBC R4 website - think his name is Daniel Levitin and you can listen again on Front Row if you want to, might be interesting for those into music).

Anyway, he was saying that someone has worked out the number of hours that someone needs to practise something in order to be "world class" (sports, music, whatever). It equates to about 30-40 hours of practise per week, over a 10 year period. He said that even someone who was a child prodigy (Mozart was the example used I think) and who showed early promise, still had to put in that much work in order to achieve that standard. So although the 1st symphony produced at the age of 5 was exceptional for a 5 year old, if Mozart had never grown up, practised and got better, we would never have heard of him as that one piece wasn't exceptional as a piece on it's own (just that it was produced by one so young).

Presumably this would apply to dancers too. Therefore those who are truely "advanced" are the likes of world-championship level dancers, who practise incessantly.

However, the word "advanced" is by it's nature comparative as Ducasi has pointed out. Which is probably why it's meaningless in the context in which we are trying to use it. There will be dancers who are more "advanced" in any given group - even complete beginners at MJ (probably those who have done another type of dance).

So what can be used instead?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by stewart38

Does beginner and intermediate have more universal meaning ?

Not really. They're equally meaningless unless you know the context.

Originally Posted by ducasi

The statement you appeared to be agreeing to did not mention "dancer" or "dancing" anywhere in it.

Well I read Andys remark as a comment on "advanced dancing" as opposed to the "advanced dancer" of Stewarts original post I was replying to - so it was clearly implied and made sense to me.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by Twirly

So what can be used instead?

lots of different specific descriptive words and comparisons - any single word you used would take on the same characteristics as "advanced" and become just as useless

[stewart38]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

Not really. They're equally meaningless unless you know the context.

rubbish

ask a 1000 people what a 'beginner' is say in the dancing world and they would say someone just starting out or not very good

[Raul]

Originally Posted by stewart38

I've often wonder what a advanced dancer is ??

If he/she steps forward after the semi circle.
If he/she steps back, that's a backward dancer.

[David Bailey]

Here's a few of the many previous discussions on the topic:

• Advanced dancers/dancing/workshops
• Advanced dancers...
• Advanced Dancing