Listening in class

[Twirly]

Actually, not just listening, but doing what the teacher is saying!

There are often comments on here about the lack of technique taught in the standard Ceroc class. Well last night we had some taught – but 90% of the men I danced with in class took absolutely no notice of what was being said. I could tell, because the difference in the 10% of those who did do what was said was very obvious.

It also got me to thinking about how Ceroc is taught, and how I was taught other dance forms when I was younger. I did ballet and tap as a child, and then quite a lot of jazz dance and a little bit of contemporary dance late teens and early 20’s. We were taught bucket-loads of technique with a mixture of some encouragement and what verged on bullying sometimes – but we’d get it right eventually. Some of this was done one-on-one, some of it was the class being repeatedly told what to do till we got it right. And I still use what I learnt when dancing MJ now.

In an MJ class it’s impossible to give the kind of individual attention described above, and the being shouted at technique I experienced is not really appropriate for a “leisure” activity (though if I went back to such a class these days, I’d still expect the same kind of treatment!). So how can you teach technique to leads who won’t pay attention? And therefore is it possible to actually raise the standard of MJ very much if you can't teach technique, but just moves?

Or, to put it bluntly, since the majority of leads are men…

How do you get men to listen and do what they're told?

[jeanie]

Originally Posted by Twirly

Or, to put it bluntly, since the majority of leads are men…

How do you get men to listen and do what they're told?

Isn't this an ongoing problem outside the dance class anyway?

[Jamie]

You can't teach those who don't want to be taught.

Often, it's the intermediate dancers in the class who obviously know more than the teacher and are just doing them a favour by doing their class, they aren't listening to what's being said or even paying attention, oftentimes I'll be teaching a first move, the men will be on beat 4 or 5, I'll still be on beat 2! And they give you that "bloody hell, arn't you done yet?" look - It's the up and coming beginners who do pay attention to everything you've said.

[Martin]

The thing is as you say, it is a leisure activity.

Some people take it seriously (looks like 10% do in your classes) others just go for the fun of it.

[Twirly]

Originally Posted by Jamie

You can't teach those who don't want to be taught.

Often, it's the intermediate dancers in the class who obviously know more than the teacher and are just doing them a favour by doing their class, they aren't listening to what's being said or even paying attention, oftentimes I'll be teaching a first move, the men will be on beat 4 or 5, I'll still be on beat 2! And they give you that "bloody hell, arn't you done yet?" look - It's the up and coming beginners who do pay attention to everything you've said.

Very true.

I'd say it was better dancers who were paying attention. Funny that, ain't it

Originally Posted by Martin

The thing is as you say, it is a leisure activity.

Some people take it seriously (looks like 10% do in your classes) others just go for the fun of it.

In other words, there is no way to teach technique to the masses?

[David Bailey]

This is a general teaching question - "How do you get students to pay attention?"

Personally, I pay more attention to the teachers I respect. Which begs the question "How do teachers get respect?", of course...

In MJ classes, it's easy to ignore the teacher - stand at the back, for example. In "round" classes, it's less easy, because everyone's equi-distant from the teacher.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by Twirly

In other words, there is no way to teach technique to the masses?

Of course you can teach technique to the masses.

It is then up to masses, if they want to take it on board and learn.

I went to a superb workshop at a weekender where lead and follow techniques were taught using just one move in a 1 hour workshop. [Adam Nathanson teaching in Australia]
A few followers droped out - noteably IMHO, they were the ones that needed the workshop most, but did not see it.

[killingtime]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Often, it's the intermediate dancers in the class who obviously know more than the teacher and are just doing them a favour by doing their class, they aren't listening to what's being said or even paying attention, oftentimes I'll be teaching a first move, the men will be on beat 4 or 5, I'll still be on beat 2!

Well I do sometimes do this (and that can be bad since I am aware that continuing through the middle of a move can just result in a sloppy technique later). Some times it's because I think the teacher is about to move on to the next chunk so I'll lead it only to discover that she is about to talk about something else. Other times it's because I want to insure that I have the move in my brain rather than just follow the instructions of the teacher. At other times it's because I've realised that my partner is backleading by rote and, without the instructions of the teacher, by leading a couple of beats ahead, she actually begins to listen to the lead rather than the instructions.

I am entirely terrible about listening to the announcements though. I tend to get a drink when they are being called out and often realise that I haven't paid one bit of attention to what they were saying .

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by killingtime

At other times it's because I've realised that my partner is backleading by rote and, without the instructions of the teacher, by leading a couple of beats ahead, she actually begins to listen to the lead rather than the instructions.

[From a teaching perspective]

A better way of doing this is to lag behind, very few teachers will continue teaching if some of their pupils haven't all caught up. Make the follow wait for you, this way she has no choice but to wait and she gets to listen to all that the teacher says too (or at least get's the chance to).

[Edit - just read my post and needed to add:]

By lagging behind, I don't mean enough to interrupt the lesson, I mean just hang fire a couple of seconds, then lead her

[martingold]

The easiest way to make people listen when you are teaching is to stop and wait until the class stops talking I dont mean for long normally just a second or so will do it
Its all about the timing of what you are saying also you can do it with a touch of humour then you gain the respect and people want to listen just in case you say something they want to hear

[Twirly]

Originally Posted by martingold

The easiest way to make people listen when you are teaching is to stop and wait until the class stops talking I dont mean for long normally just a second or so will do it
Its all about the timing of what you are saying also you can do it with a touch of humour then you gain the respect and people want to listen just in case you say something they want to hear

He did this. The men still didn't do what he was instructing them to do (technique-wise). It wasn't that they hadn't physically heard what he'd said, it just hadn't sunk in - or if it had, they'd chose to ignore it.

[martingold]

Originally Posted by Twirly

He did this. The men still didn't do what he was instructing them to do (technique-wise). It wasn't that they hadn't physically heard what he'd said, it just hadn't sunk in - or if it had, they'd chose to ignore it.

It amazes me that some people are not there to learn to dance but purely for the social scene
Perhaps the men in question were just dazzled by your beauty

[DundeeDancer]

Originally Posted by Jamie

[From a teaching perspective]

A better way of doing this is to lag behind, very few teachers will continue teaching if some of their pupils haven't all caught up. Make the follow wait for you, this way she has no choice but to wait and she gets to listen to all that the teacher says too (or at least get's the chance to).

[Edit - just read my post and needed to add:]

By lagging behind, I don't mean enough to interrupt the lesson, I mean just hang fire a couple of seconds, then lead her

Have you ever explained to the class that the followers should try to follow what the lead is directing and not care about keeping up with the instructions you are giving? Many times when doing the intermediate class when doing the routine once or twice through a move has went wrong so we've fell a good few seconds behind the rest of the class and when I try to pick up my thoughts and move onto the next move my lead gets ignore, the lady looks at the stage works out where the teachers is at then start trying to back lead me to be in time with the class. Needless to say the next 2-3 moves all go to pot as well and I just end up rolling my eye's hoping the next follower will be better.

[Steven666]

Originally Posted by Jamie

You can't teach those who don't want to be taught.

Often, it's the intermediate dancers in the class who obviously know more than the teacher and are just doing them a favour by doing their class, they aren't listening to what's being said or even paying attention, oftentimes I'll be teaching a first move, the men will be on beat 4 or 5, I'll still be on beat 2! And they give you that "bloody hell, arn't you done yet?" look - It's the up and coming beginners who do pay attention to everything you've said.

I really should stop doing that...

[Martin]

Originally Posted by martingold

It amazes me that some people are not there to learn to dance but purely for the social scene

And what amazes you about that... unless of course we ban everyone from classes who have been dancing more than 2 years!

[jeanie]

Originally Posted by martingold

It amazes me that some people are not there to learn to dance but purely for the social scene

I wouldn't go if fellow dancers weren't sociable...

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by martingold

Perhaps the men in question were just dazzled by your beauty

Happens to me all the time mate, all the time

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by DundeeDancer

Have you ever explained to the class that the followers should try to follow what the lead is directing and not care about keeping up with the instructions you are giving?

Oh hell no! I give instructions to both men and ladies, why on earth would I not give any details to the ladies, after all, ladies make up more than half my class!

I teach ladies to follow, I teach men to lead, I just disguise it as Ceroc

[DundeeDancer]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Oh hell no! I give instructions to both men and ladies, why on earth would I not give any details to the ladies, after all, ladies make up more than half my class!

I teach ladies to follow, I teach men to lead, I just disguise it as Ceroc

You see this is reason we never listen to instructors in the class, was that a yes or a no you just gave back there? Hell no, yes or a hell yes no

Just like when the teachers says release with left hand and hold with right hand, you can bet if you watch them thier doing the complete opposite! Beginners aren't clued up to this but us intermediate are onto it we know just to watch and not listen

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by DundeeDancer

You see this is reason we never listen to instructors in the class, was that a yes or a no you just gave back there? Hell no, yes or a hell yes no

It was a "hell no" why on earth would I tell ladies not to listen to me? I don't teach ladies moves, I teach them how to follow everything that they are lead into.

Just like when the teachers says release with left hand and hold with right hand, you can bet if you watch them thier doing the complete opposite! Beginners aren't clued up to this but us intermediate are onto it we know just to watch and not listen

I suppose all teachers should be perfect and never get their lefts and rights mixed up then? It's usually female teachers who have more trouble with this than male, but even us guys get it wrong sometimes. We're only human.

However, getting lefts and rights mixed up is a lot different to teaching technique.