Should teachers take their bad modes out on dancers

grease · 1st-July-2008, 05:46 PM

my friend went to a lesson in worthing Last Thursday and this was what happened.
Boy, teacher was in a mood at his class on Thursday night! He does not like people talking when he is teaching, which is fair enough when it is excessive, but he went over the top at people in the hall that had paid good money to come and dance.
The first lesson went on, and on (as usual) with him talking a lot and requesting that people in the line up were quiet while he taught. The lesson started out with 9 couples and by the end of it there were only 18 couples. It took a whole hour to cover 4 basic moves
After a little freestyle it was time for the second lesson and some people lined up. Before it was even shown he asked everyone who was not joining in the lesson to leave the room (!) saying it was off-putting for the people learning to have others watching them and also the noise of the non-dancing people talking was distracting. Some people don’t get up in the line-up straight away because they want to watch the demonstration of the lesson to see whether they want to attempt it, but he seemed to forget this. Some new-arrivals who had just come for the freestyle (not the lesson) and others did go outside, but a few stayed put. As usual there weren’t enough men, and a lady was positioned between each couple. Even so, more ladies arrived so he had to revert to having a row of ladies instead. Teacher said to the ladies that the lesson wasn`t suitable for ladies to lead (as it involved the lady moving her hand down the man’s chest) and that he was sorry there weren’t more men. He said that there were men outside that weren’t joining in the lesson so during the freestyle if those men asked you to dance say no to them! This goes against all he normally preaches about ladies or men should never refuse a dance if someone asks you!
The people from outside came in during the lesson as it was getting cold outside. Teacher got wife to go around and ask the people sitting out the lesson to leave the room. Some refused, they had paid their money and would stay put.
At the end of the lesson teacher again went off on one about the distracting noise of talking from the people not doing the lesson, saying there was an area outside the main hall to go to. A man (one of those targeted by the teacher for the ladies not to accept a dance with him because he did not want to do the lesson) stood and spoke up. He said he had supported the teacher over the last few years and had come late to do the freestyle only. He said the teacger shouldn’t pick on everyone when it was really only a few men he was having a go at. Teacher offered to refund his money but the man said that was not the issue, he wanted to come to dance. teacher went on about the noise of people talking and laughing being distracting and a woman who had not done the lesson said she thought he was bang out of order on that point and that the non-lesson people were talking very quietly (not loudly or laughing). She asked the dancers if they had been distracted during the lesson but no one spoke. During this time the atmosphere in the hall was most unpleasant.
At the start of the freestyle some people left on principle and teacher took the man that had made his point outside to talk to him.
Thus teacher has a tendency to be a bit too much like a pompous school-teacher and we were made to feel like his pupils, some of them more naughty than others. In the lessons he has a habit of naming people who are getting the moves wrong, and this “picking on people” could be quite hurtful even though he thinks they can take it.
We are all adults, and we come to jive to be sociable with others, learn a bit and have fun. The atmosphere this teacher created by being in a bad mood was most off-putting and I wonder what newcomers must have made of it all. This is the first time I have ever heard of making those not doing a lesson leave the room! How many other venues would even contemplate insisting on such a practice? Perhaps some people come to jive to forget the bad day they’ve had, they want to chat and dance but not do a lesson.
The teacher did suggest that if you just wanted to dance, come after the lesson. But some people have to get up very early for work the next day and can’t stay late, so they come early to get as much dancing as possible and may do the lesson if the moves are something they want to do (and they don’t know this until they see the lesson). Is there anywhere on a weeknight that just does freestyle all evening, without a lesson? Is there a business opportunity here somewhere?

Also, why, if there are surplus ladies, but some of those ladies are willing or want to learn to lead, make a lesson a male-only lead one? Why can’t a move be shown in two ways so that it is leadable by either gender?
so question i want to know is :-
If the teacher had a bad day because of illness or any other reason, then he should have left it at the front door when he came in, not take it out on his customers and create a bad atmosphere.

MartinHarper · 1st-July-2008, 06:31 PM

Welcome to the forum, grease. What's your name?

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

He does not like people talking when he is teaching...
It took a whole hour to cover 4 basic moves...
In the lessons he has a habit of naming people who are getting the moves wrong...

Based on that summary, it sounds like this is a good class for learning to dance, and not so good for socialising or ego-stroking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

We are all adults, and we come to jive to be sociable with others, learn a bit and have fun.

Some of us want to learn a bit, and some of us want to learn a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

The teacher did suggest that if you just wanted to dance, come after the lesson.

Indeed. Or bring a book. Or meditate. Or go to a different room during the lesson. Or walk to the nearest pub. If it's cold in the other room, bring a jumper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

so question i want to know is :-
If the teacher had a bad day because of illness or any other reason, then he should have left it at the front door when he came in, not take it out on his customers and create a bad atmosphere.

The question I want to know is: do you know what a question is?

**Lou** · 1st-July-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

The question I want to know is: do you know what a question is?

Is that rhetorical?

grease · 1st-July-2008, 07:08 PM

Ok should have been What i want to know is etc

**David Bailey** · 1st-July-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

my friend went to a lesson in worthing Last Thursday and this was what happened.

He lost the ability to capitalise, punctuate or put line breaks in his posts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

Boy, teacher was in a mood at his class on Thursday night! He does not like people talking when he is teaching, which is fair enough when it is excessive, but he went over the top at people in the hall that had paid good money to come and dance.

Good for him. I hate it when people talk during the class - and being from Finchley, I know all about people talking during the class. We wouldn't put up with it in any other teaching environment, what makes it OK during a dance class?

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

The first lesson went on, and on (as usual) with him talking a lot and requesting that people in the line up were quiet while he taught.

Well, yes, that is pretty bad. Teachers both talking, and asking you to listen....

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

The lesson started out with 9 couples and by the end of it there were only 18 couples. It took a whole hour to cover 4 basic moves

I wonder how you'd react to a tango technique class, where they spend 90 minutes getting you to walk forwards correctly...

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

{ snip stuff }Thus teacher has a tendency to be a bit too much like a pompous school-teacher and we were made to feel like his pupils, some of them more naughty than others.

Is there no end to this man's Evilitude?

I'm surprised he didn't invade Pola- oops, nearly Godwinned myself there

Normally, I'd treat this as a name-and-shame, but you know what? Your report is making those classes sound very attractive to me. A teacher who cares more about teaching than about crowd-pleasing? Sign me up.

Grease, I'm going to guess that you're an intermediate, yes? 2-3 years experience? Lots of moves under your belt? Just a wild stab in the dark there...

MartinHarper · 1st-July-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Bailey

Grease, I'm going to guess that you're an intermediate, yes? 2-3 years experience? Lots of moves under your belt? Just a wild stab in the dark there...

Oh, I was guessing dance teacher. Though I guess our guesses are compatible.

*straycat* · 1st-July-2008, 10:31 PM

So how well did this guy teach? For some reason, it's hard to get a handle on that from the original post.

**David Bailey** · 1st-July-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Oh, I was guessing dance teacher. Though I guess our guesses are compatible.

Reasonable guess, I guess.

**Lou** · 1st-July-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by straycat

So how well did this guy teach? For some reason, it's hard to get a handle on that from the original post.

I'm just disappointed that the title had a typo - and this wasn't about some badly dressed teacher forcing his dodgy fashions on his unfortunate class.

frodo · 2nd-July-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

...He said that there were men outside that weren’t joining in the lesson so during the freestyle if those men asked you to dance say no to them! This goes against all he normally preaches about ladies or men should never refuse a dance if someone asks you!...

Wondered if that was OK and now I know

.

I guess it makes sense.

Turning down someone who is too good to do the lesson, from someone who isn't too good is unlikely to impact them much.

It isn't like turning down a beginner - and might even encourage them to do the lesson.

*Andy McGregor* · 2nd-July-2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by straycat

So how well did this guy teach? For some reason, it's hard to get a handle on that from the original post.

My guess is that he was a teacher who really cares that people get the lesson. Someone who doesn't teach the semi-circle. Someone who teaches proper lead and follow. Someone who has no idea about fashion

.
.
.
.
.
My guess is that he's the kind of guy that's so devilishly handsome lesser men, who weren't even there, complain about his lessons in an attempt to make him look less attractive

**Minnie M** · 2nd-July-2008, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

.............my friend went to a lesson in worthing Last Thursday and this was what happened.

so you weren't actually there ??

I know who you are talking about and I also heard about what happened that evening, however, you seem to have blown it way out of proportion

Just out of interest, have you been to a class by this particular teacher ?? (Your profile shows that you are not a regular)

grease · 2nd-July-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnie M

so you weren't actually there ??

I know who you are talking about and I also heard about what happened that evening, however, you seem to have blown it way out of proportion

Just out of interest, have you been to a class by this particular teacher ?? (Your profile shows that you are not a regular)

Yes have done lessons by this teacher and he goes on an on an on . no wonder they didn`t want to do the lesson . One of the 2 that didnt` do the lesson has been dancing for 11 years. the other 5. Yes not a regular here , got better things to do (like dancing ) to spend time debating on this site.. the subject seems to get hoodwinked by all and sundary. made my point , and night night all.

grease · 2nd-July-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

Yes have done lessons by this teacher and he goes on an on an on . no wonder they didn`t want to do the lesson . One of the 2 that didnt` do the lesson has been dancing for 11 years. the other 5. Yes not a regular here , got better things to do (like dancing ) to spend time debating on this site.. the subject seems to get hoodwinked by all and sundary. made my point , and night night all.

One other thing , NO ONE HAS MADE ANY REMARK ABOUT MY MISS SPELLING OF MOODS.. TRY READING AND UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING IN FRONT OF YOU.

*Andy McGregor* · 2nd-July-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

One other thing , NO ONE HAS MADE ANY REMARK ABOUT MY MISS SPELLING OF MOODS.. TRY READING AND UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING IN FRONT OF YOU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou

I'm just disappointed that the title had a typo - and this wasn't about some badly dressed teacher forcing his dodgy fashions on his unfortunate class.

Apart from the comment from Lou?

NZ Monkey · 2nd-July-2008, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Apart from the comment from Lou?

Well, we wouldn't everyone to TRY READING AND UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING IN FRONT OF [THEM] now would we? It might prove a little straining for someone who struggles with the correct use of capital letters and the concept of a line break. I'm sure nobody on this forum would fit that description though, so perhaps I'm a little out of line

Now, if everyone will excuse me I need to find a towel to clean up the puddle of blood that's leaked from my eyes while trying to read the original post.....

*straycat* · 2nd-July-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

Yes have done lessons by this teacher and he goes on an on an on . no wonder they didn`t want to do the lesson .

So - you're saying that all but two people did the lesson, and those two managed to make enough racket to disrupt the class? That would certainly annoy me....

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

got better things to do (like dancing ) to spend time debating on this site..

In summary - you posted a third hand (hence, to us, unreliable) account of an incident that you didn't witness...
In the process slating a teacher that I'm guessing you've made pretty easy to identify if you know the local scene - against the spirit of forum rules, if not the letter.
You don't like the interpretation others put on your story, so you don't feel like debating it.

If you really have 'better things to do', why did you bother posting in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by grease

made my point

Consider it ignored.

1st-July-2008, 05:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
grease Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: brighton Posts: 4 Status: No Status Rep Power: 0 Rep.: -8	Should teachers take their bad modes out on dancers my friend went to a lesson in worthing Last Thursday and this was what happened. Boy, teacher was in a mood at his class on Thursday night! He does not like people talking when he is teaching, which is fair enough when it is excessive, but he went over the top at people in the hall that had paid good money to come and dance. The first lesson went on, and on (as usual) with him talking a lot and requesting that people in the line up were quiet while he taught. The lesson started out with 9 couples and by the end of it there were only 18 couples. It took a whole hour to cover 4 basic moves After a little freestyle it was time for the second lesson and some people lined up. Before it was even shown he asked everyone who was not joining in the lesson to leave the room (!) saying it was off-putting for the people learning to have others watching them and also the noise of the non-dancing people talking was distracting. Some people don’t get up in the line-up straight away because they want to watch the demonstration of the lesson to see whether they want to attempt it, but he seemed to forget this. Some new-arrivals who had just come for the freestyle (not the lesson) and others did go outside, but a few stayed put. As usual there weren’t enough men, and a lady was positioned between each couple. Even so, more ladies arrived so he had to revert to having a row of ladies instead. Teacher said to the ladies that the lesson wasn`t suitable for ladies to lead (as it involved the lady moving her hand down the man’s chest) and that he was sorry there weren’t more men. He said that there were men outside that weren’t joining in the lesson so during the freestyle if those men asked you to dance say no to them! This goes against all he normally preaches about ladies or men should never refuse a dance if someone asks you! The people from outside came in during the lesson as it was getting cold outside. Teacher got wife to go around and ask the people sitting out the lesson to leave the room. Some refused, they had paid their money and would stay put. At the end of the lesson teacher again went off on one about the distracting noise of talking from the people not doing the lesson, saying there was an area outside the main hall to go to. A man (one of those targeted by the teacher for the ladies not to accept a dance with him because he did not want to do the lesson) stood and spoke up. He said he had supported the teacher over the last few years and had come late to do the freestyle only. He said the teacger shouldn’t pick on everyone when it was really only a few men he was having a go at. Teacher offered to refund his money but the man said that was not the issue, he wanted to come to dance. teacher went on about the noise of people talking and laughing being distracting and a woman who had not done the lesson said she thought he was bang out of order on that point and that the non-lesson people were talking very quietly (not loudly or laughing). She asked the dancers if they had been distracted during the lesson but no one spoke. During this time the atmosphere in the hall was most unpleasant. At the start of the freestyle some people left on principle and teacher took the man that had made his point outside to talk to him. Thus teacher has a tendency to be a bit too much like a pompous school-teacher and we were made to feel like his pupils, some of them more naughty than others. In the lessons he has a habit of naming people who are getting the moves wrong, and this “picking on people” could be quite hurtful even though he thinks they can take it. We are all adults, and we come to jive to be sociable with others, learn a bit and have fun. The atmosphere this teacher created by being in a bad mood was most off-putting and I wonder what newcomers must have made of it all. This is the first time I have ever heard of making those not doing a lesson leave the room! How many other venues would even contemplate insisting on such a practice? Perhaps some people come to jive to forget the bad day they’ve had, they want to chat and dance but not do a lesson. The teacher did suggest that if you just wanted to dance, come after the lesson. But some people have to get up very early for work the next day and can’t stay late, so they come early to get as much dancing as possible and may do the lesson if the moves are something they want to do (and they don’t know this until they see the lesson). Is there anywhere on a weeknight that just does freestyle all evening, without a lesson? Is there a business opportunity here somewhere? Also, why, if there are surplus ladies, but some of those ladies are willing or want to learn to lead, make a lesson a male-only lead one? Why can’t a move be shown in two ways so that it is leadable by either gender? so question i want to know is :- If the teacher had a bad day because of illness or any other reason, then he should have left it at the front door when he came in, not take it out on his customers and create a bad atmosphere.

1st-July-2008, 07:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
grease Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: brighton Posts: 4 Status: No Status Rep Power: 0 Rep.: -8	Re: Should teachers take their bad modes out on dancers Ok should have been What i want to know is etc

1st-July-2008, 10:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
straycat Commercial Operator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Northeastern Parts Posts: 3,770 Status: within operational parameters Rep Power: 4 Rep.: 1709	Re: Should teachers take their bad modes out on dancers So how well did this guy teach? For some reason, it's hard to get a handle on that from the original post. __________________ Straycat Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend...

2nd-July-2008, 08:25 AM	#18 (permalink)
David Bailey Formerly known as DavidJames Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Norf Lundin Posts: 14,245 Status: Yes Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 8 Rep.: 3826	Re: Should Modern Jive teachers try to teach people to dance?