How has Ceroc changed over the years?

[Starlight Dancer]

Being a newbie to Ceroc, can I ask you veterans how Ceroc has changed over the years? And is its popularity increasing?

[Andy McGregor]

This is the most in-depth history of Ceroc I've found here.

Speaking from personal experience, in my own area I first went to Ceroc in Horsham about 7 years aog. The only other class near me at that time was LeRoc in Brighton and Worthing with Graham LeClerc. I went to both teacher's classes every week because I became a dance addict. I have observed the numbers at both classes decline to less than half those of their heyday when I first started. But that's not because less people are going jiving, I think there's more people going to modern jive classes than ever. In my opinion, numbers have dropped at these two classes because the market has moved on but the teachers haven't stayed competitive. In the old days there was only one class on any night - at the most. And only one dance a week. It was easy for the teachers because if we wanted to go jiving they had the product nobody else had. The got complacent and left the door open for other, keener, people to enter the market.

Things are very different nowadays. There's classes spinging up everywhere and dances all over the place every weekend. The difficulty us dancers have now is sorting the wheat from the chaff and finding a class where there's good teaching, a good floor, good music and plenty of people to dance with. These great classes are out there but there's others, and some of them are very "other"

p.s. Phone ahead to see if they allow smoking at your chosen venue, some do

[Chris]

The one Andy mentions is a pretty good site. I used info from that site and other places in making the rather shorter one here.

(There's lots more I'd like to add - if anyone has good info please get in touch - Ta.)

In my (humble) opinion, Ceroc has evolved towards a more latin style recently (last 2 years), and there is certainly a bit more footwork now than there used to be. There also seems to be regional variations in terms of music style at venues (i.e. pop/latin/cheesey/swingey/etc.)

[JamesGeary]

I can only talk for ceroc/jive in New Zealand. I've watched it change over 10 years.

There were no double spins or drops originally.

There is an infamous quote, that can't be lived down now, from one of the teachers 9 years ago who said when watching someone do a double spin "its not ceroc, its not even dancing".

Of course now in NZ, people spend half of their time spinning and the other half doing drops.

I think the teacher has since dissolved in a cloud of righteous apopoplexy.

[stewart38]

A while back there was a similar thread re 'changing style of ceroc'

It's less jerky, springy then 10yrs ago other styles are having more of a influence (salsa etc)

Essentially it hasn't changed that much although I think the average age is going up along with me

My experience is based on the South east and London

[Starlight Dancer]

In Birmingham I go to 3 venues, and they can all pull in around 100 people each, and the younger generation are definitely involved. 2 new venues have opened in the last year so I guess it must be getting more popular?

But how is Ceroc fairing against salsa which also seems to be popular?

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by starlightdancer
Being a newbie to Ceroc, can I ask you veterans how Ceroc has changed over the years? And is its popularity increasing?

Aaarrh. The taxi dancers get younger every year. (pass the liniment)

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
Aaarrh. The taxi dancers get younger every year. (pass the liniment)

Yep. Me too.

Getting older is for wusses.

Chris

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by starlightdancer
Being a newbie to Ceroc, can I ask you veterans how Ceroc has changed over the years? And is its popularity increasing?

Ok, I'm curious.

When I started, I was interested in what Ceroc was like now. I wanted to dance. I wanted to be a better dancer. I had no interest in the spirit of Ceroc past... until I'd been jiving long enough to notice a history.

What is it that makes someone that's just started dancing jive post about the history more than the present??

Like I say, just curious.

Chris

[Bill]

I'd agree that Ceroc seems to be veering towards a more latin/salsa style these days and I'm not sure how much of that is due directly to Viktor and Lydia.

At the last 3 classes in Aberdeen we've had a tango style move which is great ( as I've just started tango) and this may be indicative of a move away from what might be considered strict ceroc.

The change is probably due to the fact that many dancers have stayed with Ceroc for a few years and after a while I think people want to adapt or change a little. However, for many dancers, the ceroc style is fine and is the style they will stay with.

In Aberden there a few salsa clubs but I don't think any of them are anywhere near as popular as Ceroc and certainly not on the same scale or taught as effectively.

[Starlight Dancer]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Ok, I'm curious.

When I started, I was interested in what Ceroc was like now. I wanted to dance. I wanted to be a better dancer. I had no interest in the spirit of Ceroc past... until I'd been jiving long enough to notice a history.

What is it that makes someone that's just started dancing jive post about the history more than the present??

Like I say, just curious.

Chris

Chris, I'm interested in Ceroc past and present and future. Basically I posted to get an idea what the current trend was by understanding how far we have moved from the past. Newbies will be curious about the past simply because they weren't Cerocing then.

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by starlightdancer
Chris, I'm interested in Ceroc past and present and future. Basically I posted to get an idea what the current trend was by understanding how far we have moved from the past. Newbies will be curious about the past simply because they weren't Cerocing then.

... absolutely.

I was only curious cos when I started I had no spare brain capacity for an interest in it beyond working out left from right, clockwise from anti-clockwise, let alone researching the history.

[Starlight Dancer]

Originally posted by ChrisA
... absolutely.

I was only curious cos when I started I had no spare brain capacity for an interest in it beyond working out left from right, clockwise from anti-clockwise, let alone researching the history.

Yeah I know what you mean.

I was really interested in how Ceroc had changed since people had started it - like people who have been doing it for a number of years.

[spindr]

Well, I started Ceroc'ing (note no TM) in Bristol in about 1988 at Michel Gay's class . Michel used to teach during the main academic terms -- with a longish break over the Summer -- a distinct difference to today's promoters.

Over time, other people came in and started teaching various modified versions in Bristol; JiveRoc, LaRoc, even a short lived TangoRoc (years before Amir). There was a sort of skirmish between classes; each listing the moves that thay could teach you -- trying to outlist each other.

Eric Sille started doing freestyles at the Elmgrove.

Teaching style was slightly regimented, e.g. lining everyone up with the floorboards -- but this was mostly to make sure everyone "got" the moves -- since classes were pretty large. There was a lot more emphasis on individual steps in a move.

At one point there was an A4 book to buy -- called "The Dance Manual" -- which predates the Ceroc (TM).

Then Ceroc (TM) happened and Michel's class became Bristol LeRoc.

There was a *video* "How to Jive with Jive Bunny".

Style was slightly more linear and staccato, than today's rounded moves. Popular moves were a bit closer to Rock'n'Roll, or Jive and a bit simpler and faster than today -- "real" Butterfly (with the lady turning in 1 beat), Spring-lock, Screwdriver [see http://www.afterfive.co.uk]. More emphasis on signalling, slightly less on lead/follow.

Oh and for an end of term treat we might learn a jump, or two -- straddle jump, round the block, etc. I remember Graham and Ann (Hoppin' Mad) doing jumps and aerials dancing to a band at the "Fleece and Firkin" --- on flagstones!!!

Oh and the average age seemed nearer 30 something than now (when I am 30 something ).

Neil.

[Geordieed]

Just making a quick diversion although I should probably start a new thread for this but what a peoples' reactions to the changes being made to venues in London for Ceroc.

Fulham on a Tuesday is no more and some nights have been cancelled elsewhere and venues are changing around.

Plus a big difference will be the new 'Advanced lesson' to be taught at a different dancefloor on a thursday at Fulham. This could be the start of something interesting. The influence of M.Ellard is starting to kick in.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Geordieed
Just making a quick diversion although I should probably start a new thread for this but what a peoples' reactions to the changes being made to venues in London for Ceroc.

Fulham on a Tuesday is no more and some nights have been cancelled elsewhere and venues are changing around.

Plus a big difference will be the new 'Advanced lesson' to be taught at a different dancefloor on a thursday at Fulham. This could be the start of something interesting. The influence of M.Ellard is starting to kick in.

Ummm....

What changes are happening then (apart from the Fulham one that you've quoted?).

Be nice to know, as I'm down in London for a wee while in January....

Steve

[foxylady]

well...

No more fulham on tuesday, still the o2 centre on tuesday, and A new venue on Great Portland Street (taught by Cliff and Penny)

Wednesday - rumour has it that delightful wee Billco will be teaching at the old jive bar, back in tavistock place.

Thursday is just fulham
(but with an advanced class, and staying open till 11pm !)

Any more info needed Trampy???

[TheTramp]

Thanks foxy

Steve