Joining in the Intermediate class or chatting

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
YIPPEE!!! Anyone else got any idea why people turn up in time for the lesson and positively don't do it - they even do this on a Tuesday at Hipsters. Do they think they're so good they don't need it?

They like to meet up with their friends, and have a chat. And can do this while the class is on?

Steve

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by TheTramp
They like to meet up with their friends, and have a chat. And can do this while the class is on?

Steve

Franck we've got another 'plant' on the Forum. And this one's some sensible sounding guy who's somehow got The Tramp's password.

Putting aside that for a moment, what you're saying is that people go to a dance class which has the purpose of teaching people to dance, pay £5/6 for the class, don't do it and just chat with their mates. They could do that in a pub much more cheaply (although in a smoky atmosphere). And, I think this social interaction at the side of a class is rude. And I say that because in a class people get things wrong as they're learning new stuff. What they don't want to hear is laughter after they have got something wrong - very upsetting. Those people chatting with their friends often laugh - how does the dancer in the class who's just got it horribly wrong know that laughter wasn't directed at them?

..I'm sounding a bit to sensible to, sorry

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Anyone else got any idea why people turn up in time for the lesson and positively don't do it - they even do this on a Tuesday at Hipsters. Do they think they're so good they don't need it?

Just an answer to one of your questions - as, while I still love doing classes, I very often sit out and watch instead. Definitely NOT because I think I'm too good. Normally, we don't even get to a venue until most, if not all, the class has finished anyway, but there are still occasions when we'll arrive for the start and still sit and watch it.

Basically because - I'm the one who drives us to venues (while Marc drives us home). And that's after having driven an hour home from work and, usually, I'm absolutely exhausted from previous nights out and not nearly enough sleep. When I arrive at a venue, often all I really want to do is sit down for a while, have a drink, and slowly get into the atmosphere and get my head out of work mode. I always like to have that slow 'warm up' at the start of an evening.

Marc, also will often watch classes - if he's really interested in the way someone's teaching something and getting their point across, he can concentrate better when he's not actually doing the moves as well. And sometimes he's just keeping me company while I'm warming up for the evening.

Those are our reasons, anyway. Of course, in an ideal world, we'd get to places earlier and have that relaxation period before any classes started!
Rachel

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Putting aside that for a moment, what you're saying is that people go to a dance class which has the purpose of teaching people to dance, pay £5/6 for the class, don't do it and just chat with their mates.

No, they pay for the freestyle, which presumably is still good value for them. The chatting with their mates comes for free!

And, I think this social interaction at the side of a class is rude. And I say that because in a class people get things wrong as they're learning new stuff. What they don't want to hear is laughter after they have got something wrong - very upsetting. Those people chatting with their friends often laugh - how does the dancer in the class who's just got it horribly wrong know that laughter wasn't directed at them?

I don't buy this at all, Andy.

I'm in the class getting it horribly wrong half the time, and I don't give a **** what the onlookers are thinking.

If they think I'm crap I probably agree with them anyway, but mostly I'm too busy trying to get the lesson to care what's going on at the sides.

Far ruder, IMO, is the incessant chat from the people IN the class, and those that are always turning up late and making it harder for the others.

Chris

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Franck we've got another 'plant' on the Forum. And this one's some sensible sounding guy who's somehow got The Tramp's password.

Putting aside that for a moment, what you're saying is that people go to a dance class which has the purpose of teaching people to dance, pay £5/6 for the class, don't do it and just chat with their mates. They could do that in a pub much more cheaply (although in a smoky atmosphere). And, I think this social interaction at the side of a class is rude. And I say that because in a class people get things wrong as they're learning new stuff. What they don't want to hear is laughter after they have got something wrong - very upsetting. Those people chatting with their friends often laugh - how does the dancer in the class who's just got it horribly wrong know that laughter wasn't directed at them?

..I'm sounding a bit to sensible to, sorry

I don't know of a class in the country that does not have people in it who may sit on the side while any class is taught, of course if you are so insecure in your dancing as to be effected by (GOD FORBID) anyone laughing with friends and enjoying themselves

Once again McGregor, is just goes to show how imperfect the world is for you.. what a shame you have to share it with all those souls who just spoil it for you all the time

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Rachel
Just an answer to one of your questions - ..big snip...

Sorry Rachel, I hope you don't think I was picking on you. We're both in the same position about Hipsters with the long drive on a week night. I try to get there for the lesson but can't always make it due to nomal life making it difficult, traffic, rain/fog, etc. I sometimes get there well after the lesson has started and decide that it's too late to join in too.

Don't you find it's hard to get up the following morning too

Andy

p.s. Message to Franck. Have we talked off topic (wasn't it Ceroc New Policy??) and sensibly for long enough for you to split this thread and bring the nice bit indoors?

I think the thread has now become 'What makes a great dancer'. It's awfully cold and wet out here and not having an active 'edit' button is tiresome. Please let us in - paws door and whimpers......

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by ChrisA
I don't buy this at all, Andy.

I'm in the class getting it horribly wrong half the time, and I don't give a **** what the onlookers are thinking.

If they think I'm crap I probably agree with them anyway, but mostly I'm too busy trying to get the lesson to care what's going on at the sides.

Personally, I agree with you, I even go one step further than you. I like people laughing at me from the sides because if they're laughing because of something they've seen me do it's with rather than at me.

But you and I have been dancing so long we have to admit that our own attitudes are no longer representative of most dancers. I have frequently seen people in the class getting it wrong and looking sheepishly over their shoulders at the people sat down around the sides. Sometimes they've even blushed.

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by ChrisA
No, they pay for the freestyle, which presumably is still good value for them. The chatting with their mates comes for free!

Chris

Thank you Chris

I very rarely join a class - not because I think I am so good I don't need them - it is I dance for fun and am happy with the level I am at, at MJ - the class time is great to chat to friends (mainly the ladies) as we don't have that oportunity during the freestyle, and most events offer a reduced price for freestyle only.

It supposed to be social event too

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I even go one step further than you.

There's a big surprise

But you and I have been dancing so long we have to admit that our own attitudes are no longer representative of most dancers. I have frequently seen people in the class getting it wrong and looking sheepishly over their shoulders at the people sat down around the sides. Sometimes they've even blushed.

Fair point. At beginner level, I'm inclined to agree - beginners' confidence is well worth treating with kid gloves.

Beyond that I'm not so sure. If someone is in an intermediate class at all then they are already beyond the crushingly, cringeingly, painful embarrassment stage, or if they're like me, have learned how to change the embarrassment into motivation.

There are hordes of intermediates out there that go to classes week in, week out, turn up late, chatter in the classes, attempt to dance when the teacher says "just watch", fail to listen to how many on they're supposed to move, and so don't improve as much as they might. That's their choice, but for the most part I don't have a great deal of sympathy.

Maybe the ones that are putting all their effort into getting as much out of the class as they can, and giving the most to their partner as they can, don't have enough spare attention to be (even more) embarrassed by any onlookers.

Chris

[Dan]

Originally posted by Mikey
I don't know of a class in the country that does not have people in it who may sit on the side while any class is taught...

Once again McGregor, is just goes to show how imperfect the world is for you.. what a shame you have to share it with all those souls who just spoil it for you all the time

True.
It is all about perception. People may sit out because they either do not have the confidence to go to intermediate level or they can do the class but prefer to observe the teacher and some of the dancers to pick up technique points. People also laugh for different reasons and if any other person's interpretation of these activities will reflect that person's own view rather than the reality.

The same applies to dance refusals etc. I personally just take it as it comes.

PS I have never met any "advanced" dancer who laughs at a less skilled one, far from it, any attention from a person at that "level" would be for something of some value to them.

[Lory]

I always go with the full intention of doing the class!

But, due to my inherent fear of drops, if I see one during the demo, my heart sinks and I sit out and watch

(I sit there very very envious of everyone who's joining in! Until I witness someone like poor Mary getting dropped, literally!)

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Lory
But, due to my inherent fear of drops, if I see one during the demo, my heart sinks and I sit out and watch

There are very few drops taught in normal classes where you can't support yourself, though.

And you could just say that you didn't want to do the droppy bit - don't deprive yourself of the whole class just because of that.

[Jon L]

Originally posted by Lory
I always go with the full intention of doing the class!

But, due to my inherent fear of drops, if I see one during the demo, my heart sinks and I sit out and watch

(I sit there very very envious of everyone who's joining in! Until I witness someone like poor Mary getting dropped, literally!)

You normally can always simplify a drop taught in class by blocking with your outside foot, and taking a tiny step back

See Peter (Mr. Lizard) and Alina drops and seducers video number 1 for an explanation

[Jon L]

I will normally do the second class. Occasionally I may do the beginners class or the tail of it to get warmed up.

Normally I would do the second class. The exception has been where I have just done a salsa lesson and then moved on to another jive venue. This is because Salsa makes my brain ache, and in that scneario I would not be giving the teacher and women full attention which is not fair on them.

With people watching I don'r mind, though I wouldn't be too keen it if they appeared to be "deliberately" and "maliciously" taking the Mikey!

[Lory]

Originally posted by Jon L
You normally can always simplify a drop taught in class by blocking with your outside foot, and taking a tiny step back

See Peter (Mr. Lizard) and Alina drops and seducers video number 1 for an explanation

If an alternative is given, then thats Brilliant!

Sometimes I join in to the point when they start working on the drop, (great if the drops the last move) then i simply sneak out during the rotation! shhhh:sorry

[Jon]

For some of us we like to mingle with our friends and the best time to chat is when theres no music playing, hence chat during the classes so you can hear!

It's not that we dont want to improve infact alot of people I know go to different venues and join in the classes but once or twice a week we sit out the lessons to chat and catch up.

You also find the people who sit out do sometimes go and join the beginner classes to help out when theres a shortage.

Of course there are other reasons for sitting out too and these could be:[list=1][*]Cant be bothered because I'm too tired I'll save my energy for freestyle. [*]I'm just in the mood for watching, and looking at the style of other dancers.[*]I already know those moves [*]Theres a drop or a lift in the routine and I dont want to be injured[*]I dont like the way the teacher teaches[/list=1]

[Will]

Originally posted by Jon
For some of us we like to mingle with our friends and the best time to chat is when theres no music playing, hence chat during the classes so you can hear!

It's not that we dont want to improve infact alot of people I know go to different venues and join in the classes but once or twice a week we sit out the lessons to chat and catch up.

You also find the people who sit out do sometimes go and join the beginner classes to help out when theres a shortage.

Of course there are other reasons for sitting out too and these could be:[list=1][*]Cant be bothered because I'm too tired I'll save my energy for freestyle. [*]I'm just in the mood for watching, and looking at the style of other dancers.[*]I already know those moves [*]Theres a drop or a lift in the routine and I dont want to be injured[*]I dont like the way the teacher teaches[/list=1]

6. I'm already involved in a seriously interesting conversation
7. I've only arrived halfway through the class don't feel like trying to catch up
8. Lily is roughing up the bottom of my shoe with her brush
9. I have bad wind
10. I am enjoying one of Franco's cool fresh lagers.

[DangerousCurves]

I agree with Lory's point. If you see something in the class that you don't want to do, then I think its an entirely personal matter if you then chose to sit it out.

For me its spins... I recently took part in a lesson where the ladies were continuously spinned and seldom returned. Spins are my weak point anyway, but by the end I felt nauseous for 20 minutes into the freestyle. I wouldn't willingly repeat that experience - but don't feel that I am being impolite to anyone else by choosing not to do the class.

DangerousCurves

[Emma]

Yes.

I admit it.

I am a Very Bad Person.

For about the last four or five weeks I haven't done the beginner's class....and sometimes I have also missed out the Intermediate class. I completely agree that everyone ought to join in..indeed it really irritates me when people *never* join in..it does (sometimes, to me) give the impression that these people are better than, know better than...etc etc. Especially if I suspect those people think that of themsleves already.

But you know what? Recently I haven't been in the mood. Recently it has suited me to arrive and spend some time chatting with people who are my friends and who I will not have a chance to chat with later because they and I are dancing. It's been enjoyable to sit with them for a while and have a laugh. I have needed that time for my own enjoyment. I expect that in a week or so I shall go back to dancing in the classes again, because I really enjoy it, and I really think that me doing the classes is valuable to my enjoyment, my dancing, and maybe even to the newer dancers (though frankly there are loads of other people just as valuable as me, so I don't think I'm terribly missed in that area).

Anyway. My point is - people have lots of reasons to not join in the classes. Some of them may be very selfish, and some of them may be very valid. I have learnt that it is a mistake to assume that just because you have excellent reasons for joining in a class it doesn't mean that the ones not joining in are against the reasons.

[Lory]

Originally posted by Will

9. I have bad wind

OH NOOOO, from now on, every time I see you sitting a class out, this horrid thought will run through my mind!

And later on, if I witness you doing some spectacular movement, I will be wondering what force is propelling you?