Teachers & image

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Sheena
Do taxi dancers have a sell-by date? What I mean is should we only taxi for a set time or is it limitless?

I've been taxi-ing for about a year and a half now so should I step down and let some-one else have a go or is it ok for me to continue.

Sell-by date? No, definitely not! Good (and enthusiastic) taxi dancers are absolutely priceless - where would most of us be without them? If there are other suitable people who'd like to do it, then by all means they should, but on a rotational basis with the existing taxi's.

Can I ask a question though? - slightly going away from the theme ...

I am absolutely appalled at this Ceroc 'image' thing - Ok, I'll accept that we want to be attracting younger, hipper, trendier people to the classes, but does this really mean that teachers, demos and taxis have to be a certain age, size and look?

I remember being shocked to hear that people over 35 (I mean ... 35, how young is that?!!) are not allowed to apply for Ceroc teaching because they're too old. And, when I was recently asked to demo, I echoed my boyfriend's idea that the taxi dancers should be allowed to demonstrate, too. I was then told that certain taxi dancers would be considered too old or too fat to be acceptable demonstrators for the Ceroc image. Don't you think that's terrible??

In my mind, I think that if you have a 16-stone fifty-something woman demonstrating, the average woman in the class will be more inspired and think, Wow, she looks great, and if she can do it, I can too.

I'd be really interested in any opinions on this. Are we really right to be pursuing this 'image' so relentlessly? Is this only Ceroc, or is it the same with Leroc, etc.?

(Sorry for the long posting - just something I'm pretty worked up about. Maybe this should have been a new thread...)
Rachel

[Emma]

Originally posted by Rachel


I remember being shocked to hear that people over 35 (I mean ... 35, how young is that?!!) are not allowed to apply for Ceroc teaching because they're too old.

Yowch, really??? Now I feel on the scrapheap... I hope that's just a nasty rumour. There's *probably* a law against it, isn't there? (If there isn't there should be.)

[Lou]

Originally posted by Rachel
I'd be really interested in any opinions on this. Are we really right to be pursuing this 'image' so relentlessly? Is this only Ceroc, or is it the same with Leroc, etc.?

Totally shocked if this is indeed the case! Our LeRoc teachers in the Bristol area are all sorts of ages, shapes, sizes, etc... Ahhhh, come on!

Ooooh.... now I'm getting an image of Logan's Run.... *lol*

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Emma


Yowch, really??? Now I feel on the scrapheap... I hope that's just a nasty rumour. There's *probably* a law against it, isn't there? (If there isn't there should be.)

I'm afraid it really isn't just a rumour. Scary, isn't it?

[Lou]

Well... http://www.ceroc.com/teaching.htm has this to say on the subject of teaching....

Who Becomes a Ceroc Teacher?
Anyone can apply to become a Teacher but to be accepted onto the Ceroc Teacher Training courses you need to be:

Fit
Outgoing
Lively
Enthusiastic
Committed
Approachable
Well presented
Charismatic

Previous Ceroc experience is not essential although a background in fitness, movement and/or dance is a great asset.

And as I see the last member shown on the "Ceroc Teachers Association List of Current Teachers" is Virginia Woolf, it seems as if dead novellists can also apply!

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Lou
Well... http://www.ceroc.com/teaching.htm has this to say on the subject of teaching....

"Anyone can apply to become a Teacher but to be accepted onto the Ceroc Teacher Training courses you need to be:

Fit
Outgoing
Lively
Enthusiastic
Committed
Approachable
Well presented
Charismatic"

Mmm, that's interesting, although I'm still absolutely sure that there is an upper age limit of 35. Honestly, I'm really not just trying to spead malicious rumours!

If there's anyone who can tell me I'm wrong, I'd be more than pleased to hear it. But I know several people who wanted to auditon for the teacher training and were told they couldn't because they were over 35. And my boyfriend, who recently passed his Ceroc teaching, confirms this is the case.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Rachel

I remember being shocked to hear that people over 35 (I mean ... 35, how young is that?!!) are not allowed to apply for Ceroc teaching because they're too old.

Well ... there is a degree of truth in what you say. Over the last 10 years Ceroc had been keen to foster a younger more dynamic image ... and as a marketing strategy thats to be lauded. They have identified the 25-35 age group and gone for it, and in their position I would have done the same. In London, thats probably the right target market and they get them.

PROBLEM ... outside London its a very different scene. At Nantwich I reckon the average age is mid 40's. I know clubs where its older. In an effort to attract the younger market the focus now has been for younger people on stage. I think that when I qualified only one other teacher had been older on the day they took the exam .... out over a 100 teachers that doesn't do lot for the ego ... espeialy as fate had it I qualified with the youngest ever teacher ... 19!

With the increased focu on youth there may be an argument that the experience of us older teachers is getting overlooked. No one in their right mind would question the superb contribution made on a weekly basis by Franck and Scott (and they are both younger than me!). I looked at where things were going and decided I didn't want to be part of it. I can't compete with the need to get young pretty people on stage so I didn't even try!

The strange thing is that I'm on the verge of of a project to start teaching six-formers because thats the type of age range that likes the music I like and likes the 'street jive' style that I've promoted in the North West. It maybe proves the point that you don't have to be in your 20's to teach younger people, just have a connection through the music and the dance ... and your attitude.....

Sorry if this has been a bit self indulgent but its a bit of a sore point.

Given the physical distance from Ceroc HQ, I think that Ceroc Scotland is in a better position to be master of its own destiny and make whoever it wants taxi dancers.

Oh .. final point ... I know a lot of clubs don't have an age policy of teachers or on music. The result can be that like gravitates to like so that average age increases till its more like a Derby and Joan club and all they play is Rock and Roll ... believe me I've been there. So .. like everything in life, its all about balance.

[Emma]

Originally posted by Gus



The strange thing is that I'm on the verge of of a project to start teaching six-formers because thats the type of age range that likes the music I like and likes the 'street jive' style that I've promoted in the North West. It maybe proves the point that you don't have to be in your 20's to teach younger people, just have a connection through the music and the dance ... and your attitude.....

Of course! You're absolutely right. I can feel myself getting on my educational soap-box now (something I never expected to happen in a Ceroc arena). A good teacher is a good teacher because of their ability to communicate and make connections with their class (obviously being able to do the moves helps too!). Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. Grrr.

[Bill]

My understanding is that there is an upper age limit though this may be unofficial. Anyone over mid 30's is likely to find it very difficult to be accepted as a Ceroc teacher.

There has been much discussion on this site on other threads regarding the subject of image which does cause some concern. It is obvious that whoever teaches shoudl be a good dancer and have the right personality and almost all of the Ceroc teachers I've encountered have had both those qualities. It may be a coincidence that many of the latest recruits are slim, attractive young (often long haired) women. That may be because there are far fewer very good male dancers in the clubs so there are many more females to choose from.

As far as Taxi's go I suppose I am one of the longer lasting ones around I've been dancing in Aberdeen for almost 5 years and have been taxi-ing off and on for over 4 although I think we are all meant to change after 6 months. I don't know if that's good or not but we were actually discussing this just the other day and how it would be good to have a proper training session so that exisiting taxi dancers and prospective taxi's could be clear about their role.

The problem of anyone doing it for too long is that a clique can form and dancers can see themselves - or be seen by others as a kind of 'in group'. The advantages are obviously that the longer one does this (hopefully) the better they will be and can pass on all sorts of wisdom etc.....

I enjoy taxi-ing but would not want to do it every week but we have several male dancers up here and being on duty every third week is good.

I noticed when I was down south recently that in Leicester they had 3 or 4 taxi dancers on duty at the same time.

It would be good to get feedback from non-taxi dancers on whether they feel we shoudl change more often or if we become rather too blase.

Any comments

[Rachel]

Thanks, Gus - it's good to have an 'insider' opinion. Yes, I agree that we do want younger people in the classes (as well as, not instead of, us 'more mature ones'). And, as the rest of us get older and older, I can see that they need to target the younger age group.

I still wonder whether an older teacher would necessarily put off the younger people from coming to classes. I think they should at least assess potential teachers on an individual basis and, if at 45 they're still dynamic and can related to people in their 20's, then their age should be irrelevant to their application.

And what's making me smile (in an ironic kind of way) is, if I put on a few stone, how would they delicately (!) tell me that I was no longer acceptable as a demonstrator??

[Scot]

Well guys I can't speak for Ceroc policy but when I started as a Teacher I was 3 stone overweight and well over 30.

I suspect the criteria for selection of Demo's, Taxi's and Teachers is quite simple.

Can you communicate well?
Are you good with the customers?
Are you a capable dancer?

Not sure age has a huge part to play if it does I think I will be getting my books shortly....

As regards the nights if you have a specific age range in your venue you tend to attract people of similar ages. Not sure why that is the case just is. Maybe a comfort thing who knows

Wrt to Sheena's message: your are a great Taxi and I would never want you to step down.

Regards

Scot

[Gus]

Originally posted by Scot
Well guys I can't speak for Ceroc policy but when I started as a Teacher I was 3 stone overweight and well over 30.

Scot, surely you lie ... I thought you still had time to go before hitting the big 30. Must be the wholsome lifestyle you lead and those delectible demonstrators keeping you so young!

To answer previous questions, I'ver never heard of any teacher (or taxi dancer) being retired because of age, weight or looks. There is, howver, a marked move towards 'Cerocbabes' as teachers .... whether that is because of a shortage of suitable old, ugly overweight males as candidates I know not (per Bill's point).

Having said that, with all respect to Franck, I think many men would like to see some nice 'eye candy' on stage. Whether they would learn Ceroc any better, who knows ... but as a competitor to us said when he saw our new teacher in boob tube and lycra trousers .. "who cares?"

Is this the slippery path we are now following?

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Gus
Having said that, with all respect to Franck, I think many men would like to see some nice 'eye candy' on stage. Whether they would learn Ceroc any better, who knows ... but as a competitor to us said when he saw our new teacher in boob tube and lycra trousers .. "who cares?"

And what about us women? We may all be politically correct re. age, weight, etc, but we can also appreciate it when there's something nice to look at. Coudn't we start a campaign for topless male teachers, or something?

[Gus]

Originally posted by Rachel


And what about us women? We may all be politically correct re. age, weight, etc, but we can also appreciate it when there's something nice to look at. Coudn't we start a campaign for topless male teachers, or something?

Hold on a sec ... women have had the better part of the deal for a long while. In London you've been able to lust openly on such forms as Viktor, Micktor and Cliff .... in the Midlands there is (was) Marco and Boy Robin, up North there's the rugged charm of Geordie Paul and North of the border its an embarresment of riches with Franck and Scott's toned bodies being barely restrained by their sheer t-shirts ... WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT!!!

[OK .. a little journalistic license has been engaged but you get the gist]

[Curtain]

Women have had the best part of the deal since the dawn of time. When was the last time you saw a women pluck her nostril hair? I rest my case!!

I think the guys would be all for doing there classes topless Rachel, but in this age of equality, I believe the women would have to partake in this little ritual too.

As a result É

The male numbers would surely soar keeping the female dancing fraternity happy and the deejay would never be bored. See? EveryoneÕs a winner!!

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Gus
... an embarresment of riches with Franck and Scott's toned bodies being barely restrained by their sheer t-shirts ...

Mmmmm ... getting even more excited about coming up to Glasgow now!!

WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT!!!

Naked torsos!

Oh, and Gus, you noticeably omitted yourself from the list ... sheer modesty?

[Rachel]

Originally posted by DJ Curtain
Women have had the best part of the deal since the dawn of time. When was the last time you saw a women pluck her nostril hair? I rest my case!!

Ever tried a bikini wax???

in this age of equality, I believe the women would have to partake in this little ritual too.

As a result É

The male numbers would surely soar keeping the female dancing fraternity happy and the deejay would never be bored. See? EveryoneÕs a winner!!

Oh come on, most of the female teachers/demos are virtually naked as it is, with the skimpy clothes they wear. Not that I blame them, I might do the same if I had a body like theirs! (I'm just jealous, that's all ...)

[George]

Hi, I'm George and I'm Head of Dance at Ceroc, responsible for recruiting Ceroc Teachers. Just thought I'd chip in on a subject which seems to have provoked quite a lot of discussion.

I just want to confirm that there is no strict policy on the age of Ceroc Teachers. The audition process does look at the individual candidate and assesses a wide range of skills and qualities as listed elsewhere in this thread.

Hope this answers some of your queries and I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

George

[Franck]

Originally posted by George Rundle
Hi, I'm George and I'm Head of Dance at Ceroc, responsible for recruiting Ceroc Teachers. Just thought I'd chip in on a subject which seems to have provoked quite a lot of discussion.

Hey George,

Welcome to the forum and I am sure you will be a valued contributor...

As for the rest of this discussion, I am disappointed in all of you, no sooner do I turn my back that you lot hi-jack Sheena's discussion on Taxi dancers and turn the thread into talk of old and / or sexy teachers etc...


As a franchisee when it comes to recruiting teachers, we have to look at a lot of different aspects, personnality dancing ability and fitness are high up indeed, but most of all, we have to select potential teacher trainees on the basis that we would be happy to work with them (or indeed to have them work for us!).

Looking at all the current Ceroc teachers, they are all very different (age and shape wise), though a bit like policemen, they do seem to get younger every day
One thing they do have in common though is a passion for Ceroc, dancing and teaching backed-up by the best Teacher training and support system available to any dance organization... So what if we look good as well ?


Franck.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Rachel

Ever tried a bikini wax???

I know I'm only a an ageing ex-Teacher .... but since when was a bikini wax a compulsory part of getting ready to dance Ceroc?

Obviously I'm attending the wrong type of venues ... or are we in danger of slipping back to conversations of nude Ceroc (was it Heather or Amanda that was the culprit last time).

Anyway ... to bring things back on track ... secret agendas or no .... most clubs in the UK have trouble getting good taxi dancers. Its more than being a good dancer, its more to do with patience and being able to explain the correct moves to beginners and new intermediates. Although I orginaly started with plans to rotate taxi dancers every 6 months, I'm afraid that most of my original taxi dancers still form the backbone of the Ceroc Nantwich crew nearly 3 years on.


As long as the taxi dancer alwys has the attitude, "we were all beginners once" ... long may they be the true force of people who encourage dancers to come back again. Here endeth the sermon.