A dance is just a dance...

[Gus]

Originally posted by Rachel
Now there's a thought - is it considered alright to dance to a slow song, dance close, make eye contact, etc, with someone on the dancefloor without it being misinterpreted as meaning you'd be interested in something more, off the dancefloor? Surely a dance is just a dance, isn't it, even if it's a sultry, sexy, slinky number?

This has probably caused more problems than anything I know, especialy since 'Blues' dancing has come in vogue. There are a number of dancers I know who dance as if hot passionate sex will be the obvious next step ... but then finish the dance with a warm smile, then on to the next partner. Its quite interesting to watch the amount of passion that you can put into a dance without neccesairly wishing that passion to be 'shared' with your dance partner afterwards. Such close dancing has led to more rumours of affairs than you would believe (oh ... and in a couple of cases I know its actualy led to affairs .... and I'm NOT refering to the Nantwich carpark this time!)

There's a phrase that says "dancing is the vertical representation of horizontal intention" ... so you can make your own mind up. I remember that at one club it didn't matter how passionately you danced with your partner, but the tell tall sign that they were interested was an extra little squeeze of the hand afterwards.

OK ... Ceroc is a social thing but it would be terrible that if everytime you put everything into a dance, with the body moves, the eye contcat and the passion ... and then that just got taken that you were coming on to your partner. Lets dance ... keep the passion on the dance floor and try to leave the dating came till afterwards? Any other views?

[filthycute]

Originally posted by Rachel
Now there's a thought - is it considered alright to dance to a slow song, dance close, make eye contact, etc, with someone on the dancefloor without it being misinterpreted as meaning you'd be interested in something more, off the dancefloor? Surely a dance is just a dance, isn't it, even if it's a sultry, sexy, slinky number?

I think it's highly acceptable to engage in a little sleaze every so often. Thats the good thing about dancing. You can go on the floor, dance a sexy wee number, be a little daring, drown in your partners green eyes ......then get rescued from the shallow end and walk off with your partner and have a wee laugh about it

I've never been in the situation where a guy has thought of it as anything more. Maybe it just me Actually, now i think of it, is that good thing or a bad thing?????



filthycute x x

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Gus
at one club it didn't matter how passionately you danced with your partner, but the tell tall sign that they were interested was an extra little squeeze of the hand afterwards.

Oh God!!!! I've noticed recently that I've started doing that hand squeeze thing when I say thanks at the end of a dance - Christ only knows where it came from, or why I started it. It's just an involuntary action and I kick myself whenever I realise I've just done it. Oh dear, must make sure I put a stop to that habit NOW! God only knows what all these people are thinking of me...

Originally posted by filthycute
drown in your partners green eyes

Green eyes ... oh yes!!! That's what really did it for me when I first met my boyfriend. And his dancing may have helped, too! Fraid we're guilty of those Ceroc affairs Gus was talking about. Maybe I - unknowingly - squeezed his hand at the end of a dance that's what made him think (rightly!) that I was interested!

I've never been in the situation where a guy has thought of it as anything more.

You sure about that?

Maybe it just me Actually, now i think of it, is that good thing or a bad thing?????

Definitely a good thing if it's the post-60-year-olds who are doing the propositioning! Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that age group ...

[John S]

Originally posted by Gus

the tell tale sign that they were interested was an extra little squeeze of the hand afterwards.

Surely not, Gus - I think it's almost an involuntary thing that is often done (by men and women alike) at the end of a dance or even during part of the lesson, just to say "thanks for the dance, I enjoyed it". It's Ceroc's goodbye-equivalent of a handshake when you're introduced to someone.

Either that or I've been propositioned more times than Warren Beatty, and although I would love it to be true, even my ego can't believe that!

As for what goes on between the man and woman during the dance, well for a few minutes if the music and chemistry is right, and they want to, they can indulge their fantasies in a safe environment.

Going out to the dancing has always been a prelude to dating, and still can be if you want it to be, but I think the overwhelming majority of men and women who go to Ceroc are there because they enjoy (a) the dancing and (b) the company of members of the opposite sex, and (c) the social side. Anyone (male or female) who is only there for a pick-up is soon spotted and won't last.

[Gus]

Originally posted by John S
Anyone (male or female) who is only there for a pick-up is soon spotted and won't last.

Sadly I would have to disagree. There are many 'hunters', especially on the scene, especially on the London circuit. Also, if they are ... what do you do? You can't ban someone for being 'on the pull'! At the end of the day, everyone is an adult and its their responsibility for how they act ... hard for a third party to intervene .... unless they really cross the threshold.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gus
You can't ban someone for being 'on the pull'!

Well I would not mind trying :reallymad
Saying that, I think John S is right, there are very few people like that at Ceroc (in Scotland at least).
My theory is that if they come to a Ceroc night expecting an easy time, they are quickly disappointed when they realise that they are expected to actually dance!!!
For these people, the effort of actually learning to dance proves too much and they don't come back. Those who do learn, usually find that dancing is much more rewarding than meaningless partner chasing and they turn out ok in the end!

Franck.

[Tiggerbabe]

OK, NOW I GET IT JOHN. HA! HA! Squeeze, squeeze.

[CJ]

Ooops.

Must admit to being a bit of a hand squeezer. Completely involuntary and always as a sign of genuine affection, which I hope is somewhat diferent to, "How's about it, doll?"

Still, nothing a couple of weeks therapy won't fix.

PS If I do the squeeze thing and it annoys you, then please feel fre to slap me.

[Graham]

Originally posted by John S

Either that or I've been propositioned more times than Warren Beatty, and although I would love it to be true, even my ego can't believe that!

I echo John's thoughts here, and I must confess I'm not really sure how much squeezing I myself do, but if I do it and it annoys you please feel free to slap Robert.

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
please feel fre to slap me.

That's all very well, but you might enjoy it! (Your avatar certainly seems to be asking for it...)

[Bill]

Agre with Gus...............this is getting to be a habit have to disagree with whatever he says next !

When I found Blues I realsied I had found 'my' dance style One of our previous taxi dancers paid me a compliment once by saying I did sleazy moves but not ina sleazy way. Mind you he did think even the comb was sleazy

But yep, you can get very intimate and lost in the dance but it's for the moment and with the right song and the right partner it's wonderful. And it is only a dance however up close and personal it might be. But given we have several relationships that have developed through the class.....and at least one marriage then one by-product of the dance scene is that people will meet others they like and relationships might form. Which is different from going with the intention of 'getting' someone.


As everyone says, up here there are few 'hunters' and they don't last - thank goodness.

Get down, get close and have fun

[Dancing Veela]

Gus any woman would be able to tell you when a dance is more than just a dance. Men however don't always seem to know the difference. I have had a man take things the wrong way on the dance floor - mind you he was from Brazil!

And of course the other problem is that just because you dance very close to one dancer doesn't mean that all men should assume that I want them to dance that close - it all comes down to who I'm dancing with.

If you are dancing with someone you know really well (and think is very cute) then getting into some hot clinches is just perfect! Dancing with someone you know well, feel safe with but don't fancy at all tends to just be fun and a giggle.

I would never take a hand squeeze as anything more than affection and a 'that was a really nice dance thanks'

Bill - I don't care what that taxi dancer told you in the past you are sleezy on the dance floor just teasing ....honest....don't report me.....you are very sexy on the dance floor!

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Gus


OK ... Ceroc is a social thing but it would be terrible that if everytime you put everything into a dance, with the body moves, the eye contcat and the passion ... and then that just got taken that you were coming on to your partner. Lets dance ... keep the passion on the dance floor and try to leave the dating came till afterwards? Any other views?

"Sex in the City" or is it "Sex at Ceroc"?? I think that dancing can be very sensual depending on the music you are dancing to. I think that the lovely thing about going to Ceroc is being given the opportunity to dance to wonderful music with lots of partners, making some very sexy moves and smiling and looking at eyes because you are enjoying yourself. I often squeeze hands and probably say things like "that was a fantastic" and for the moment it was but then I look forward to having another dance with a different partner and probably to a completely different beat. We are having fun while dancing and that's what matters.

I'm sure some relationships will develop but put men and women together anywhere and that can happen and why not. I'm sure on most occasions it would be pretty obvious pretty quick that no further interest or intention is there once the dance is over.

Probably said too much again!

Cheers

Sandy

[Lindsay]

Interesting topic.

I was recently sent promotional literature through the post from an organisation similar to Ceroc. They were pushing a forthcoming party night as a way to meet 'hot chicks' and their slogan was 'you won't be single for long'!

Turns out it was full of Rachel's favourite age-group, so I was glad we didn't go.

Re. Blues: I have a problem with this style, I find it very sleazy, and in my experience it often pushes the boundaries of acceptable social dancing (for me).

[Gus]

Originally posted by Lindsay


Re. Blues: I have a problem with this style, I find it very sleazy, and in my experience it often pushes the boundaries of acceptable social dancing (for me).

I was fortunate enough to teach a workshop in New Zealand last year which was titled 'Up Close and Personal', subtitled Sexy dancing without the sleaze. All participants were warned that it was close dancing and recommneded that dancers came in fixed couples ... as it was about half the couples didn't mind rotating ... at first. The workshop took a number of dance elements including Blues ... which at that time was not as common in NZ. For the most part dancers there loved it but I did have a number of complaints subsequently in line with Lydsay's comment. I think there is an element of truth in what she (and the complainers) said.

It is hard to see it as socially acceptable to dance with a complete stranger with your thigh hard against her groin (can I say that here?) ... but the close element is required to give the dance its flow and lead ... aswell as its sensuality. I personaly think that you would not dance Blues with someone who you did not feel anbsolutely comfortable with. For example, there are a number of very good 18 year old dancers at my club ... but I could not see me dancing serious Blues with them as it would be far too intimate and inappropriate.

I think that Blues is far to the right of social dancing ... in that it is for social dancing but not with just anyone ... and to an extent that is contrary to the ideal of Ceroc. Maybe the fact is that Blues and Ceroc are different dances that can be danced at the same venue but to different rules. Having said that, similar could be said about drops/seducers ... though they are less intimate they require an equal (if not greater) amount fo trust and should not be executed with strangers!

I would be very interested in what other Blues dancers think ... Bill?

[Bill]

You show off Gus........ when I was teaching in NZ indeed!!!

Yep have to say that Blues is close and intimate and works with thos partners who you feel very comfortable with. There are three or four women I regularly do Blues with - Fran, Laura, Lisa particularly -because we are very friendly and they have all been to the workshops.

However, as Nigel and Nina point out, the lead in Blues is not from the groin but from the knee and inner thigh so although it can look as if a couple are joined at the groin there could,and should, be some space between them. If it's your partner then you ca get as close as you want

But as has been said you can't dance like that with everyone not that you would want to. But if a woman asks me about the style or the moves I would be happy to show her, as I have done a few times in Aberdeen.

What would concern me is new people seeing dancers do Blues and then rush off never to return becuase they're terrified that they would have to do those moves. Most of us know who we can dance with in paricular ways......whether this be Blues, drops, seducers, fast and furious, slow and sexy etc..... It's about knowing and above all respecting your partner, enjoying the moment, being aware of the space around you ---or quite often the lack of it

ps...........my experience of dancing in NZ left me feeling like an absolute beginner. Women looked at me asif I was some kind of weird being ..........but I didn learn quite a lot but I think a lot of women still think I'm pretty weird

ah well.......get that music playing ( whatever the song is !) and let's have fun

[Graham]

I think (and I acknowledge assistance from a certain taxi dancer in coming to this view) that the difference between being sexy and sleazy is that dancing in an intimate style is sexy if welcomed by your partner, and sleazy if it's unwelcome. Therefore two men could dance identically with a woman, and she could think one sexy and one sleazy. In fact, the same man could be sexy and sleazy on different occasions (try eating lots of garlic and not washing for a couple of days if you don't believe me!! )

I think this definition holds true for both men and women, incidentally - it's just that not very many women are going to push into "unwelcome" territory, compared to the other way round, given that men tend to be both bolder and have wider limits on acceptability.

Much of this ties in with what Dancing Vila posted earlier

it all comes down to who I'm dancing with.

The snag is that it's pretty much impossible for most men to tell reliably (should that be infallibly?) whether the intimacy is welcome, so as Bill suggests the only solution is to build up trust first.

PS. I agree with Bill about Gus showing off - in fact as I was just saying to Joaquim Cortez the other day, some dancers are so full of themselves.

[Gus]

Originally posted by bill foreman

However, as Nigel and Nina point out, the lead in Blues is not from the groin but from the knee and inner thigh so although it can look as if a couple are joined at the groin there could,and should, be some space between them.

Think my earlier statement was misleading ... I wasn't trying to say that the lead comes from the groin .. I was realy just trying to pain a picture of how the move can look ... and feel.

Blues can be toned down ... its really more about the music that you dance to rather than the intimacy of the posiitoning ... though there is a lot to that.

We have taught a BLues 1st move onn a Ceroc stage (naughty I know) but it was essentialy modifying the Penguin Walk (one of the dumber ceroc moves) to make it more applicable tolower music and trying to get couples to groove a bit rather than jusrtexecuting move after move. Also, there is a whole element of blues that comes from the open position.

Having said all that ... if the music is hot, and the mutual feeling is hotter ... groing to groin can seem a perfectly acceptable style of dance!! ... .excuse me, time for another cold shower!

[Gus]

Originally posted by Graham
PS. I agree with Bill about Gus showing off - in fact as I was just saying to Joaquim Cortez the other day, some dancers are so full of themselves.

Ahh well ... jealousy will get you ???

In the UK we've been on the recieving end of a host of excellent Aussie and NZ dancers/instructor ... so I thought I'd get across there and see what its all about. By chance last year I was invited to teach a workshop ... one of the most terryfying experinecs of my life.

As I said BLues is pretty new out there so I got away with it. As Bill said, though I doubt his modest claims at failure, the dance style is different out there but still strong areas of similarity. Its a lot more drops and fast moves based but still with a lot of expression. One thing, its never rough ... so the Blues type moves have found a place there.

I'm back there again in a few months for the International event, teaching more 'Up Close and Personal' but the main reason I'm there is that they've got their top guy (their equivalent of Viktor) teaching advanced drops and style points ... hope to be able to "borrow" some of this and bring it back to the UK .... this guys a little good, apparently he's a multiple winner of the Australia Chapionships. If that not intimidating I don't know what is.

The idea of getting across there isn't ego .. believe me its a very humbling experience to teach a workshop and know at least 20% of the dancers are way better than you are. Its about exchanging ideas (and having a bl**dy good time). If you ever get the chance do go there. I can't speak too highly of the Kiwis, both as dancers and as friendly party animals. If things turn out right, I don't intend coming back!

[Dancing Veela]

I do enjoy dancing blues but what we do need to remember (and this is related to Bill's point about putting beginners off Ceroc) is that Ceroc classes and evenings are about Ceroc dancing - not Blues dancing.

If a DJ plays too much Blues (or too slow to Ceroc too) music in a Ceroc evening, it can be very annoying for those people who have come along to dance Ceroc. Maybe at a Ceroc party there is enough time to have some Blues numbers in there - but at a weekday class .......??????

Another aspect (and completely unrelated to my previous points) of course is that it is (usually) the man who decides which sexy moves he's going to do (and please note that most men only want to do these moves with the 'pretty' women) - us women don't get the choice of only doing these moves with the 'hot and sexy men' . Also, as a women, if no men do these sexy moves with you it leaves you feeling very left out/frumpy/ugly Please be considerate guys - if you are going to be sexy, share it around with all the women

Gus - hope you enjoyed that shower!!!!!!!!!