We need a new comp format where.....

[Chicklet]

*picks a number* 6 gents dance with each of 6 ladies and they score EACH OTHER out of, say10 in, say 3 categories...

Discuss...?....

C

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Chicklet
*picks a number* 6 gents dance with each of 6 ladies and they score EACH OTHER out of, say10 in, say 3 categories...

Discuss...?....

I like this idea.

As I'm gradually discovering as I take my first faltering steps in the world of competition, what looks good on the dancefloor isn't necessarily the same as what feels good.

Even speaking just for myself, having watched myself, toes curling, on video, it's incredible sometimes how something that felt completely crap at the time doesn't look anywhere near as bad as it felt.

And conversely, it can feel Ok but look very bland.

It would be very interesting to be judged as much on feel as on look.

Chris

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by ChrisA

It would be very interesting to be judged as much on feel as on look.

how to take this off thread, let me count the ways...

but seriously, that's exactly the idea....I'm sure we could all name dancers who don't do well in competition but are absolutely DREAMY to dance WITH....and for the majority of us it's the feel rather than the look that gets us going back again and again and again....

[Lory]

Originally posted by Chicklet
....and for the majority of us it's the feel rather than the look that gets us going back again and again and again....

and It's also the way they make us feel about ourselves too!

[inspired]

I like your idea, Chicklet. I am attracted to the notion that judgment would be based on consideration for one's partner. The problem with this might be that those partners who know each other would have an advantage(?). I wonder what other criteria you would suggest?
What do you mean by, "*picks a number*"?

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by Lory

and It's also the way they make us feel about ourselves too!

absolutely

eg: IMO Nigel Anderson is one of the best leads on the circuit in EVERY way. however watching him freestyle, you would not know this (sometimes doesn't look how he feels)

On the other hand (and will not mention any names) there is a multi competition winner who looks fantastic but is very ordinary to dance with and even dances out of time sometimes (not only my opinion) and you feel he is giving you a 'charity' dance

[Chicklet]

*picks a number* just meant I was picturing 6 couples on the floor rather than say 8....no logic other than that would make (assuming one dance per pair) 6 tracks...and maybe 8 was too many to have in one round/heat/section...this is all pure fiction out of my head yesterday evening...so very much a work in progress...(wouldn't I just feel like a queen if an organiser actually decided to DO it!!)

Agree that partners who know each other might have an advantage....but borrowing the ODA stance (thanks G
) for a mo, could also be a disadvantage....perhaps the thrill and excitement and the FEEL of dancing really well with relative strangers would outweigh the "normal" feel of a dance with a known quantity on a particular night??

Judging Factors???OOH so many to choose from
and by the very nature of the thing the results will be oooh so subjective.

How about

Lead / follow ability
Feel
Musicality (that old indefinable!)
Feel
Eye Contact / connection
Feel
and er Gut Feel??

Seriously, I think there might be three do-ables in there (each out of 10) and a big old "out of 20" for the "overall feel"??

Where's Gadget??!! He'll have hunners!!!

C
(and welcome to the forum Inspired !!)

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Chicklet
Where's Gadget??!! He'll have hunners!!!

thinking...
I'll post later {I heard that groan }, but I like the idea

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Chicklet
the FEEL of dancing really well with relative strangers

Your feeble attempt to justify feeling strange men is not fooling anyone

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Your feeble attempt to justify feeling strange men is not fooling anyone

well if they will insist on queueing up, surely it would be quite rude not to?? Nice girls from Troon aren't allowed to be rude.

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Chicklet
and er Gut Feel??

Are we back on the "Midriff" thread here

At first sight, it looks like a great idea, but not one that could ever be put into practice. Then I thought, isn't this just what we are trying to do every time we go out freestyling? Aren't we trying to make the dances that we have, "feel" the best. (Except if we're practicing for competitions.) OK we don't have any formal judging on it, but don't we tend to know those where it works best for us?

There again, thinking of some existing competition judges that have judged me in the regular manner, Nina, Lily, Marilene, Bex, if any of them want to spend 2 or 3 dances with me, judging me, I'm at your disposal!

Greg

[Chicklet]

hear what you're saying Greg but the idea is that the "judging" isn't formal...wouldn't have old style "judges" as followers for the leaders being "judged", or vice versa. The judges are the other competitors.....peers if you like.....resulting in a little recognition for those that do manage to provide the best dances to their partners...and exactly in your words, the ones that make it work best for us.

[Gadget]

I think that you would need to dance with everyone in your group before scoring them. This makes it easier to compare and get a better feel for the dancers as a whole - you also don't need to be thinking on scoring as you are dancing. This would mean keeping the groups small, say 4-5 depending on number of competitors. Since you now have smaller groups, you could have two rounds of "pools", with the results from the first determining the second.

Scoring... firstly, I would not rely on an individual scoring system, but a relative scoring system: Instead of saying A=60, B=80, C=45 you would be A=2nd B=1st C=3rd. This makes it harder to quantify and get final results, but easier to judge.

Categories to mark... an over-all rating would be a must, perhaps that's a x10 multiplier on the total score. This would just be how much you enjoyed the dance - nothing more complex than that.
I would only have perhaps two or three other things to score: you have to remember each dance - Lead clarity, Musical appreciation, Repertoire. Sound ok? Again comparison rated.
So "A" could score 2nd over-all , but score a 1st in all the other things. (4 competitors, 4pts for 1st - this round's score would be 30+4+4+4=42) Competitor "B" could have just 'clicked' but not done so well on the other scores (40+3+2+3=48)

Pools...For those curious about how the second round of pools would be split, I would use an even distribution method: 10 pools; so 1st to 10th go in pools 1->10 respectively; 11th-20th go in pools 1->10 respectively...etc. I think that I would reverse it for the leads and followers so that the top of both in the first round don't dance together.

Places... I don't think that there would be a problem with showing rankings except for the lower level - Perhaps only the top half should be shown scores? (but could be requested from the organiser if curious)


Summary: a lot of work for the organisers, but should provide a fun event as long as the people involved didn't mind the possibility of dented egos.

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Chicklet
the idea is that the "judging" isn't formal...wouldn't have old style "judges" as followers for the leaders being "judged"

Yeah, I realised that, that bit was just me fantasising!

Gadget, some good ideas in there, but if your "overall enjoyment" weighting is so high, is there much point in having the more "quantifiable" aspects taken into account? There again you need to have something quantifiable, because I'd have to write something down after each dance, - no way would I manage to be objective about the first dance after I'd done the 4th, unless the difference was totally obvious.

I can't quite imagine how my nerves would cope, being judged by my partner on how much she enjoyed it! And would the women suddenly get rather sleazy? Strange, but men usually seem to enjoy that

Greg

[sars]

ok might have got the complete wrong end of this conversation but i dont understand how you could dance with some random and decide if they are a good dancer by judging on certain catorgories. people like dancers who are good to watch an these are mainly the one's who have practiced there arse's of to get there. dont get me wrong i think the competition judging need something done about it after all it isn't always judged fairly as i'm sure many people will agree.
also even if a person feels good to dance with from one person's point of view it doesn't mean the next is goin to like it and it's the same with watching some like one style and others like something completely different!
i just think that the fairest way would be to give the audience sheets and get them to vote. i hear you say then it'd just be the couple who know the most people but in all honesty i think people would in the end vote for who they thought was the best not who there friends were!

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by sars
ok might have got the complete wrong end of this conversation but i dont understand how you could dance with some random

Hi Sars, wee bit wrong end of the stick on this bit perhaps....each competitor wouldn't be dancing with a "random" .... 6 guys and 6 girls would be there all as competitors and dance with each other.


people like dancers who are good to watch an these are mainly the one's who have practiced there arse's of to get there.

absolutely! but watching isn't so much what this one would be about

dont get me wrong i think the competition judging need something done about it after all it isn't always judged fairly as i'm sure many people will agree.

in no way would the comp in discussion here replace the existing kind!

also even if a person feels good to dance with from one person's point of view it doesn't mean the next is goin to like it and it's the same with watching some like one style and others like something completely different!

No arguement there !! point of this idea is just to put a slightly different slant on it and judge from within the dance (oooh I like that concept ) It would be interesting to see who, on balance, came out tops for feel, in the same way it's interesting to see who comes out tops for viewing!

i just think that the fairest way would be to give the audience sheets and get them to vote. i hear you say then it'd just be the couple who know the most people but in all honesty i think people would in the end vote for who they thought was the best not who there friends were!


see you at the JiveMasters Comp then!!!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by sars
ok might have got the complete wrong end of this conversation

I think you've got completely the wrong end of this conversation If you rate people you dance with then 'how it looks' wouldnt come into it, its purely enjoyment judging and the point is - it would have to be your partner judging, not any onlookers . It also allows for differing abilities between couples i.e. How much can you raise your game when dancing with a far better dancer, or for that matter, handling a less experienced dancer than yourself?

[sars]

Which is great for personal gain an improvement on a club night as i'm sure everyone judges each others dancing but you couldnt judge a competition by it? which is what i thought was the point tryin to come up wit a better way which was more fair??

[Dave Hancock]

Originally posted by Chicklet
*picks a number* 6 gents dance with each of 6 ladies and they score EACH OTHER out of, say10 in, say 3 categories...

Discuss...?....

C

Certain disadvantages of this jump out at me, for instance the time factor, this would take hours if you had a sizeable number of dancers. Also the judging would be of such varying standards that you could never get a meaningful result (in a subsequent CAFG she suggests people could judge on areas such as musicality but how could someone who has been dancing for a couple of months give a balanced view on such a thing).

I pretty much agree with Gregg in that the initial comments made and the idea sound a lot more like freestyle than competition where the leads that are nicer to dance with generally get asked more to dance on social nights out. To me this in itself is recognitiion of one's dancing as I generally always take it as a compliment when asked to dance.

[Emma]

Hey I like this idea too, if only because it gets around the whole 'find a partner' issue *mumble mumble mutter mutter sniff sniff*

Though can we take looks RIGHT out of the equasion (sp?) please, before anyone puts it in. Oh. I did. Hmm.

I'll try for something that contributes something (for a change!)

Follows judge leads on - (in no order)

Lead
Connection
Musicality
Breath (oops, no, maybe not )

I guess it'd be the same for the leads judging the follows...

And Gadge, no, I disagree, I couldn't judge after dancing with all I would *forget*. I am a person with a short attention span, d'uh.

How would the music work though..same tune for each person? Would bore any audience sensless and give musicality advantage to the later partnerships.

My only concern about this is that it might sort of feel like speed dating (not that I've done it but what a bloody horrible idea). Um I guess I'm thinking about being the poor sod who comes out with the lowest scores.

Oh no, am thinking aloud, that's Gadget's department.