Moving on UP

[Zuhal]

Movin on Up


I find it very frustrating that peeps join the intermediate class without having grasped the basics.


1. Turning quickly with no connection so that they are waiting for the next move. ( I’m waiting for the beat to catch up)

2. No concept of compression or resistance. Always have rod arms instead of bungee straps

3. Hold on through all turns

4. Move arms but do not twist

5. Try to turn under arms that are at waist level
turn under arms that raised for the purpose but in the opposite direction from the lead.

It is very hard to offer suggestions tactfully in the class when the teacher is in full flow.

What is the counter argument to a procedure where the teacher or taxi dancers let people know when they are ready to move up.

And the other related Question

I’m lucky enough to attend a venue where there is an alternative class, concurrent with the intermediate that apparently teaches lots of interesting things but is attended by and indeed attracts superstars who return to the freestyle and do stylish things. I want to be invited into this class.

Zuhal

[DavidB]

Modern Jive is taught backwards. You learn the end result (ie the dance) first, and eventually you might pick up the skills needed to do it properly.

The majority of those people you are complaining about would have stopped after one class had they been taught loads of technique.

It depends how many people you want at your venue, and how long you want your venue to continue for.

Fortunately what is starting to happen is that teachers are beginning to understand the technique a lot more than they did, and are finding ways to introduce this into intermediate classes without overcomplicating everything.

As for the advanced classes, if you understand the concepts you tave talked about, then you shouldn't have a problem with them. Which venue are you talking about?

David

[Chicky]

At Dance Riviera we have experienced this (from dancers telling us that people are moving up too quickly) and experiencing it ourselves.

It's a difficult thing to talk to people about and it has to be done very tactfully. We now state in our announcements, that you should be in the beginners' revision class for as long as possible until you are completely happy/familiar with the beginners moves. Then you should talk to one of the dance coaches or teachers about when it's time for you to move up.

This has been successful for new people joining us, however, for people that have come to us from other venues and have been doing intermediate for a while, but are quite clearly not familiar with the basics, it's harder to broach the subject without offending anyone.

Does anyone have any examples of how to deal with the people who jump ahead?

[under par]

Originally Posted by Chicky

At Dance Riviera we have experienced this (from dancers telling us that people are moving up too quickly) and experiencing it ourselves.

It's a difficult thing to talk to people about and it has to be done very tactfully. We now state in our announcements, that you should be in the beginners' revision class for as long as possible until you are completely happy/familiar with the beginners moves. Then you should talk to one of the dance coaches or teachers about when it's time for you to move up.

This has been successful for new people joining us, however, for people that have come to us from other venues and have been doing intermediate for a while, but are quite clearly not familiar with the basics, it's harder to broach the subject without offending anyone.

Does anyone have any examples of how to deal with the people who jump ahead?

Not so sure that even jumping ahead is a sufficiently apt desription, last week I went to a Sussex Ceroc venue where a woman still wearing her first night ceroccers sticky badge was doing the Intermediate lesson( and not very well)
As there was a dip involved in the lesson she was actually lethal as she threw herself backwards dangerously when dancing with me. I managed to catch her but had she hurt herself or worse still hurt me I'm sure I would have had a good negligence case .

Lets have the beginners in beginners classes. PLEASE!

[Zuhal]

I posed a question.

What is the counter argument to a system that encourages an element of acknowledgement of someone’s progress by allowing the Teacher or the Taxi, Guide, Helper to signal the time to move on. DavidB suggested that the venue would be empty if it only taught technique.?!?!

As a comparison I set out my personal circumstances. “I’m lucky enough to attend a venue where there is an alternative class, concurrent with the intermediate that apparently teaches lots of interesting things but is attended by and indeed attracts superstars who return to the freestyle and do stylish things. I want to be invited into this class.” I have no doubt that I could cope with the level of the class. The point is that I feel as though I want to be asked.

Listening to how often you Guru’s praise the importance of dance compliments and helping beginners self esteem. Try to remember that to a beginner you “Gurus” are just another face in the crowd. The Teacher and the uniformed assistants carry status and therefore their approval is worth an enormous amount to the recipient.

What is the counter argument to a procedure where the teacher or taxi dancers let people know when they are ready to move up.?

Zuhal

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Zuhal

What is the counter argument to a procedure where the teacher or taxi dancers let people know when they are ready to move up.?

Zuhal

EGO. You try telling someone who firmly believes they are good enough that they aren't and see how quickly they become an ex-member of your club

[Gordon J Pownall]

Originally Posted by Gus

EGO. You try telling someone who firmly believes they are good enough that they aren't and see how quickly they become an ex-member of your club

The first response would be...."...and who are you to tell me what I can and cannot do...I've paid the same as everyone else to be here...", etc. etc. etc...

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by Gordon J Pownall

The first response would be...."...and who are you to tell me what I can and cannot do...I've paid the same as everyone else to be here...", etc. etc. etc...

Well, yes, considering we've never done it that way before. But if it was standard procedure for everyone, that should work, no? It always seemed perfectly acceptable in Salsa to wait until the teacher told you that you could move up to intermediates. Though funnily enough there, once you moved up, you were no longer allowed to do the beginners' class - unless you paid twice!
Rachel

[DavidB]

To answer your question directly - you can't tell someone they can't move up because they can't do something they haven't been taught. And you can't teach these skills to beginners without changing the nature (and the viability) of Modern Jive classes.


I'll explain in a bit more detail.

Perhaps the major reason for the success of Modern Jive is its simplicity. It teaches the absolute minimum you need to know to be able to get up and dance.

The simplicity is a double-edged sword however. Many things that are omitted that can make dancing easier, because they can also make it more complicated to a beginner.

All of the things that you talked about are very useful things to know, and will undoubtedly make you a better dancer. But they are just not taught to beginners. I hope for the continued success of modern jive this continues to be the case. Beginners have enough to learn already. The only things I would tell beginners would be related to safety.

I understand that these basic skills are covered in beginner workshops. I have no problem with that - taking the trouble to go to a workshop does suggest a greater willingness to learn more. One thing that has changed in the last few years teaching these skills in intermediate classes. I feel this was long overdue.

The nature of modern jive is a social activity based around a dance. The people who take it seriously are the exception, not the rule. Even though the opportunities to develop your dancing have improved significantly over the last few years (competitions, advanced classes, etc) you shouldn't forget that we are the minority, not the majority. Most people just go along, meet up with friends, do the class and dance through the freestyle. They don't want someone telling them they aren't good enough.

Some teachers have different approaches. Leroc in Bristol continually point out they teach more technique than Ceroc. Australia & NJ have a far more structured approach - they seem to have made it a dancing activity with a social aspect.

On a different note - sometimes the names of the classes are confusing. Right at the start, you go to a beginner's class because you *are* a beginner. But then you start going to an intermediate class to *become* an intermediate - not because you already are. Same with 'advanced' classes - they are aimed at intermediates who want to become advanced.

[Zuhal]

Originally Posted by DavidB

To answer your question directly - you can't tell someone they can't move up because they can't do something they haven't been taught. And you can't teach these skills to beginners without changing the nature (and the viability) of Modern Jive classes.
.

Fair comment. "THE ORACLE" monicker is obviously justified.

I note that "Rocsters" has a policy in line with my question. I better pay it a visit and see for myself http://www.rocsters.com/classes.htm

Is their anyone on the forum who can feedback on rocsters policy?

Zuhal