Ceroc Fundamentalists v Ceroc Assassins

[Gus]

Looking back over some of the (not so witty) repartee over the last 12 months ... there seems to be regular outbreaks of forum violence between the PRO Ceroc (fundamentalists) and the ANTI Ceroc (assassins). I'm not talking about the healthy debate were we discuss differences/gripes etc ... but where statements are twisted and people make accusations which are far removed form the original thread or postings.

In the early halcyon days of this Forum probably the two worst offenders of this were myself and Will ( ). For some reason we got at each others throats without really listening to what each other was trying to say. I was coming from my experience of having a rough time from being both within Ceroc then on the receiving end of them, and Will had come form a point where Ceroc had been very good for him and had seen barbarians trying to damage Ceroc for commercial gain. In the end we talked out our differences and we have a far better understanding or each other and I'd now like to think we are mates.

However, some recent exchanges have far surpassed any of the old spats that occurred. Think back as to those who blindly and aggressively defend Ceroc .. yup, a few names come to mind. Then think about those who will take any opportunity to have a go ... a few more names pop up. Can we all just agree that there are those who (for their own reasons) either like or dislike Ceroc ... that’s just human nature. Thats acceptable. What is not acceptable is for those who are looking for 'Reds under the bed' who constantly twist and turn peoples statements into something different. I admit that my mind has been focused on this subject by one individual who seems to have a vendetta ... who has consistently ignored point blank question and seems only to exist to imply that statements are made only to attack Ceroc or for self gain ... yeah ... you know who your are Messer 'fluff’ Ball

A forum exists for healthy debate to promote understanding and knowledge .. .this cannot happen where statements made in good faith are constantly ridiculed with having secret agendas or self interest. Lets keep debates to what is written and not to what people think has been written. Lets keep the personal animosity off the forum and, if it must take place, keep it to PMs. Fair comment?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Very fair, but theres not that much of it, we have a fairly idylic forum all things considered. I think its also true that this forum ,and forums in general, are perceived differently by different people and some people come onto vent their rage, and in order to use the forum as an easy stress relief, they read between the lines of posts and make wild assumptions about what the poster meant - it then seems to be compulsory to get overly angry about the perceived insult.
Like I said though. it happens a LOT more on other forums. There has been a few good ones on here though .

"So you mentioned Ceroc and Average in the same sentance??!? Are you serious Ceroc taught you everything you know / you'd be nowhere without Ceroc / biting the hand that feeds you / i hate you / you suck / etc...

... thats why theres an Agony Smurf column, these people need help

[Sheepman]

Originally Posted by Gus

Messer 'fluff’ Ball

Hmm, I think that could lead to a case of mistaken identity

Originally Posted by Gus

Lets keep the personal animosity off the forum and, if it must take place, keep it to PMs. Fair comment?

Seems fair enough, but it can get entertaining at times (and boring at other times.) Hopefully most readers are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions when the spats get going.

Gus, I think a few specific examples would have helped here, not everyone reads everything posted, and those that do probably have fried brains

Greg

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Gus

... What is not acceptable is for those who are looking for 'Reds under the bed' who constantly twist and turn peoples statements into something different. I admit that my mind has been focused on this subject by one individual who seems to have a vendetta ... who has consistently ignored point blank question and seems only to exist to imply that statements are made only to attack Ceroc or for self gain ... yeah ... you know who your are Messer 'fluff’ Ball
A forum exists for healthy debate to promote understanding and knowledge .. .this cannot happen where statements made in good faith are constantly ridiculed with having secret agendas or self interest. Lets keep debates to what is written and not to what people think has been written. Lets keep the personal animosity off the forum and, if it must take place, keep it to PMs. Fair comment?

It is mostly I (AKA fluff ball) that is the target for your spleen. I am pro MJ, rather than pro Ceroc. My early MJ experience was divided between Le Jive and Ceroc. I try not to criticise unless I can suggest a better way. I post my suggestions for improvements here where I know they can be read by anybody.

I have posted my reasons for my objections. I have nothing against you at all, I probably would not recognise you. There is no personal animosity involved. It is behaviours I attack, not people. You seem to have some perception that Ceroc has treated / is mistreating you , badly. If I knew enough about it I, and felt you were right, I would be right in there with my opinions on that too.

What I took severe objection to was your implication that Ceroc were overcharging for inferior workshops, now continued by your implication that they can only "get away with it" (my words) because they lack competition. I learned most of my MJ from Sylvia and Hannah at Bromley, and Phil and Michaela here at Ceroc Central, all top class, and more than capable of meeting most dancers needs, and, from only a little experience, I know Emma is too. So, what would have been wrong with a simple, plug-free, opinion free, question on workshop pricing? Why the sub-texts?

[philsmove]

Lets keep the personal animosity off the forum

unfortunately people can take offence when no offence was intended

[Dreadful Scathe]

are you saying i take offense easily ?





sorry

[CJ]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

are you saying i take offense easily ?

No, ya twazzak.

He was merely alluding to it.

Now go and over react somewhere else...

[philsmove]

are you saying i take offense easily ?

Hinny kinny ya ‘wana ‘hight ‘immy

PS

[Jive Brummie]

Hoorah for Ceroc



James.

P.S hope the assassins don't find my comment too outrageous

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally Posted by Jive Brummie

Hoorah for Ceroc

Nice colour James and I agree

[MartinHarper]

Those of us untrustworthy folks who do both Ceroc and non-Ceroc need a name too...

Ceroc Turncoats?
Ceroc Double Agents?
Ceroc Mercenaries?
Ambicerocstrous?

[Lory]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Ambicerocstrous?

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Those of us untrustworthy folks who do both Ceroc and non-Ceroc need a name too...

Ceroc Turncoats?
Ceroc Double Agents?
Ceroc Mercenaries?
Ambicerocstrous?

Lucky?

[Gus]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Those of us untrustworthy folks who do both Ceroc and non-Ceroc need a name too...

Just wondered ... if no-one told you .... and you walked into a non-Ceroc venue (at least one that follows the standard format of beginners and intermediates) ... woudl you be able to tell the difference ... would you care?

I go to a few local Blitz clubs, to Ceroc Hyde when I can, and a few other Ceroc clubs when I'm on my travels. Up until the changes in the beginners section I found them all more or less the same. The key distinguishing factors were the quality of the music and the venue .... and sometimes whether the instructor had a personality or not

[Gordon J Pownall]

Originally Posted by Gus

Just wondered ...

The key distinguishing factors were the quality of the music and the venue .... and sometimes whether the instructor had a personality or not

Light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance.......

[Zuhal]

I really didn't want to grace this thread with a response.

DOH!

Zuhal

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Zuhal

I really didn't want to grace this thread with a response.

Zuhal

Why? Over the last 2 yeers there have been a lot PRO v ANTI Ceroc debates on the Forum. With good grace Franck has let the debates continue. I think that the last major debate proved that the vast majority of people on the Forum felt gratefull to Ceroc for its contribution to the MJ sceen .. regradless of what personal gripes they may have. If we just ignore the fact that people have gripes then thats just locking into a mindset that Ceroc is perfect and theer is no need to change. When Mike took over Ceroc he obviously took on board some of the not-so-positive comments flying around and has made some very postitive steps to change things. Whether you like the changes is a personal thing but it has made people question why we do things and whther there is a better way of doing things. What is NOT positive is just saying Ceroc is GOOD or Ceroc is BAD without discussing it in a logical and unemotional way .... or have I totaly missed the point?

[Andy McGregor]

Just thought I'd pop in to ask when the fight was starting?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Just thought I'd pop in to ask when the fight was starting?

the moment you spill Gus's pint or he catches you 'looking at his bird'





ooh just noticed my rep has gone down, wonder who that was

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

the moment you spill Gus's pint or he catches you 'looking at his bird'

I always drink 'is pint and look at 'is bird while 'e's busy fightin'