Dance etiquette: Asking for a dance...

[Franck]

Originally posted by snoopy
Asking Girls to dance can be a bit dangerous for the chaps ?, well sort of. I have no problem with asking any level of dancer for a turn round the floor , but, if there are two or more friends sitting together and you manage to ask one of them for a dance but are then diverted from asking their friend(s) there is the danger that the missed friend(s) give it the "Asked you but not me, why ?, favouritism !". :sorry:

Or am I over reacting to light banter

As I read the above from snoopy, I thought that this question deserved its own thread...
I tend to agree with Snoopy in that, up to a point, it is good etiquette to ask all the ladies in a group for a dance if possible
In fact, ideally, we would dance with everyone present on the night (in an ideal world )

So girls, how do you feel? Do you feel slighted if your friend (s) get asked and you do not, do you not notice, or are you just too busy doing the asking to pay attention to such nonsense ???

I wonder...

Franck.

[John S]

There is a body language I'm sure we're all familiar with, of the man or woman "hovering" at the edge of the dance area, foot tapping, hips moving, clearly waiting to be asked to dance. In these situations, no problem.

Also, I don't usually have a problem with asking one lady out of a group to dance (provided they're not obviously engaged in serious girltalk) but you're right, I do feel an obligation to go back immediately after and ask everyone else in the group (not that this is a problem, but sometimes it's just not possible for one reason or another - so sorry out there if anyone has been upset.)

I am more reluctant to ask a lady if she is sitting down and obviously part of a couple - some people come to a dance just to dance with the one partner, fair enough, and I don't want to cause friction or get a bloody nose!

But ladies have equal rights (and responsibilities) to make sure they get as many dances as the guys - assuming there are enough of us to go round, which I know isn't always the case. I know there's centuries of cultural norms to overcome, but gosh it's better to make the effort to ask, rather than sit on the sidelines just wishin' an' hopin', surely ....

I still remember how crap I was for a long time after I started dancing, and so I am still chuffed when asked to dance - I try not to refuse/postpone unless feeling physically wrecked, as I do know how upsetting it can be to be turned down.

Dunno if this answered any of what Snoops was asking, but it passed the time - thanks for reading this far!!!!

[Gus]

Good points well made.

I think the problem occasioanly are the 'Stalkers' We have had a couple of incidents (male and female) with people repeatedly asking the same person to dance. The point we've tried to promote form the stage ... very much in line with Frank's ... is that you are 'entitled' to ask anyone for a dance ... but not to overdo that entitlement.

If Ceroc is supposed to be about being social, its abour spreading the social thing across as many partners as possible. I feel that the more experienced dancers have a bit of an obligation to give something back .... dancing with begineers and the style-challenged members of the club .... everyone had to start somewhere and I think everyone reading this forum can remember the more advanced dancers who took the time to dance with them when they were starting out.

[Tiggerbabe]

Couldn't agree more Gus with the point about more-experienced dancers giving something back. I do try to dance with as many of the beginners as I can, although I will admit if it is a fast record that I really like I'll probably seek out someone who's been dancing for a while - if no-one's already asked me that is.

I usually am sitting with the same crowd of girls ( and guys ) and haven't noticed anything other than good natured banter if one of us is asked and not the others. OR we will make the guy dance with both of us at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do go and ask the guys to dance - even John S - as I don't think they can get around to everyone in an evening. In fact, sometimes they are asked before they have even got back to their seat so it's kinda difficult for them.

The only thing I hate, and this happens more often in Marcos than anywhere else, is when you see someone you would like to dance with and travel almost the whole length of the hall to ask them - ONLY for someone to get there first!!!!!!!!It's the trying to look as if that is NOT what you were away to do and then, if you ask someone else, do they feel 2nd best?

I know it's hard for some of the girls to ask - but I will admit to getting a little cheesed off if they moan about not having been asked - but haven't moved out of the corner to do any asking -AND have still got their arms crossed (and their cardie wrapped round them) enveloped in an air of "don't talk to me!!!!!!"

Usually you'll find me at the edge of the floor, tapping my feet etc. etc. etc. Can't help it! I just love it!

One thing though, while I appreciate it if people give of their time to dance with me I HATE the guys who agree to dance with you and then NEVER, EVER make any eye contact with you at all!! What is the point? It's supposed to be fun, and it's most definitely not if someone obviously would rather be anywhere else. (Doesn't happen up here by the way Gus - has only happened to me in London!)

[Heather]

I remember when I first started Ceroc, how strange it was to be told 'Just go and ask so'n so etc to dance'. Being of a generation of women who waited to be asked , this was totally alien to me!!!
However,after a couple of weeks I soon got over it - it was either that or spend the evening at Marco's as a wallflower .
Frustrating to say the least, as the music is so good, you just have to dance! I was lucky that my sister Wendy, knew so many people, I think they felt sorry for me and asked me to dance (either that or she strongarmed them into it??).
However I must say that I have no problem in doing the asking these days, in fact, being Miss Bossy, no-one dare refuse!!!!
It's a thing that goes with self - confidence, when you get to the stage that you know a few moves well and can follow the male lead, it doesn't feel quite as hard asking someone to dance.
Most of us Dundee girls who go to other Scottish venues, generally do the asking at first, and usually the gesture is reciprocated later in the evening. Of course, when you you to a venue regularly, you do begin to get to know people and they generally ask you for a dance. If they didn't-we'd ask them anyway!! Our warcry is "" I love that record - I've got to find a man !!!"(Purely for dancing purposes!).

[Fox]

Interesting points from Heather and Sheena there, I must admit I always feel honoured when a girl asks me to dance. I think, in Dundee, that there was a serious shortage of men for a long time and it meant that the girls had to ask or sit down all night. During last year I've often wondered if beginners have left because they couldn't cross that social thing of asking guys to dance, seems a shame really if that's the case.
Sheena has a good point about that 'don't approach me air', it can definitely put me off asking, though usually I'll try and ignore it and barge in and ask anyway .......cuz I'm like that
I've no idea about etiquette as such, I simply try and get round as many ppl as possible and have fun.....before I peg out and get tired and too sticky.

Interesting and good topic for disccusion though, I'd like to hear from more ppl on this one..

Fox

[Stuart M]

Originally posted by Sheena
The only thing I hate, and this happens more often in Marcos than anywhere else, is when you see someone you would like to dance with and travel almost the whole length of the hall to ask them - ONLY for someone to get there first!!!!!!!!It's the trying to look as if that is NOT what you were away to do and then, if you ask someone else, do they feel 2nd best?

Happens to me all the time in Glasgow - problem is the only ways round it I know of are:

a) to be chatting to the person before you ask them for a dance - fine if it's someone you know, but it can look like a chat-up (although again this is fine in certain circumstances )
b) the "ambush" technique of being in the area when the previous record ends. Dangerously close to stalking, and I must confess to being guilty of it at times, although I think I'm a victim as well!
c) "booking" dances in advance - fine if you like dancing to anything, but no fun when La Vida Loca starts up and you're already knackered...

So I partly got round it (in the sense of not having to chase around for a dance) by becoming a Taxi. Makes it easier for women to ask me up for a dance, whether I'm wearing the taxi t-shirt or not.

As to picking a second person if first choice disappears before your very eyes, I make a mental note to reverse the situation at some point in future, if possible.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Stuart M
So I partly got round it (in the sense of not having to chase around for a dance) by becoming a Taxi. Makes it easier for women to ask me up for a dance, whether I'm wearing the taxi t-shirt or not.

As to picking a second person if first choice disappears before your very eyes, I make a mental note to reverse the situation at some point in future, if possible.

Brilliant example of dance floor etiquette... No wonder you were recruited as a Taxi-dancer
Sometimes it seems like I spend most of the night making mental notes to dance with someone later or the following week.
The answer is simple really (for both men and women), if you want to get better and have a good night, you have got to stay on the dance floor. The only way to do that reliably is to be doing most of the asking

Franck.

[Jane]

...hey, I don't get stalked...

I agree with John about the asking and being asked thing. What really helps tho, is that the teachers quite often say stuff like '...and ladies, don't forget you can ask too - give us guys a break here' - that gives us ladies a break too

Sometimes tho when I was too tired I had to 'postpone' in which case I promised the poor 'turned-down-guy' that I'd come and get him within the next couple of tracks. Alternatively, I went and victimised the beginners cos they do nice easy, predictable moves and you don't have to concentrate too hard. I like beginners...

Aaaaaaand, I'm in agreement with Sheena. I like to have at least a little bit of eye contact with the guy I'm dancing with. I asked one guy why he was looking all around the room when he was dancing with me and his explanation was that he used to be a teddy boy way-back-when and that was the style then. I re-educated him.

...oh I miss ceroc I wanna play toooooooo Hopefully you can teach Sven some cool stuff when he gets there and he can dance with me when he gets back

J.

[LorraineT]

Just got in (a bit early) from an event in Newcastle, having put on my dancing shoes they never got a chance to strut their stuff.Had to leave after two and a half hours of sitting and trying to look approachable/keen(but not too keen)/friendly(but not desperate)and had only one dance all night - thankfully it was from a Scot, so thank you very much much Alistair from Motherwell.

Now those of you who know me know that I'm no shy shrinking violet about asking you guys to dance, but I was just being polite and in unfamiliar territory, and as there was only about 35 people in the room, I was hardly lost in a crowd.

What did I do wrong?

I always thought the Geordies were a friendly bunch - being one myself.

[John S]

I'm really sorry you didn't enjoy your night out, Lorraine - it just seems that some places have a culture where people dance only with those they know, and it makes it very difficult to break into the cliques that build up.

Sometimes the layout of the venue contributes to that - there is one place I dance in the North of England (Prestwich) where personally I think the tables and chairs are laid out in such a way that it can be difficult to "break into" the groups sitting around the tables, to ask someone new for a dance. But if the people who go there regularly enjoy it like that then who am I to argue?

But there is no excuse for somebody going along to a smallish venue and not being noticed and welcomed - by the leader/teacher if by no-one else. It's bad manners, unprofessional and bad business.

Guess next time you go you'll have to change back from your overly-timid shrinking-violet mode into the Lorraine we know and love, and go out, grab a guy and demand that he dance with you - or else!

[Franck]

Originally posted by LorraineT
What did I do wrong?

I always thought the Geordies were a friendly bunch - being one myself.

I don't think you did anything wrong at all.

It is an unfortunate chain of event, but basically, the more you dance, the more you get asked for a dance... So you need to break the initial stalemate and then ask and get asked.

I remember my initial months / years when I spent so much time sitting down
I was very good at rationalizing that I was learning a lot from watching (and maybe I was).
Despite the overall friendliness of Ceroc classes, it can be difficult sometimes to break into a new crowd.

A good trick for women generally is to ask one of the teachers / good dancers first, that way you will look brilliant on the dance floor for your first dance or 2 and will be more likely to be asked later.

Franck.

[John S]

Thought this might be of interest, from The Times on Saturday Ð they run a column matching a modern etiquette question with an answer from the past Ð in this case the question was about how a lady can politely turn down an offer of a dance when she is tired or wants a break.

Here is the answer from Mr & Mrs Henry Ford in ÒGood MorningÓ dated 1926.

ÒUnless the lady has excellent reasons for refusing, she should accept the courteous offer. If a lady is previously engaged for the dance, or if she is tired, if she feels that she does not dance that specific number well enough to warrant her offering herself as a partner, she has the right to refuse, explaining her reason to the gentleman.

But after refusing she should not consent to dance that number with another. To do so is extremely rude, it is in the worst possible taste, and repetition will gain for a person an unenviable reputation.Ó

(Things havenÕt changed much, and I guess the reverse applies just as much for men refusing the offer of a dance from a lady)

[filthycute]

I've only ever been refused dances because the guy has already been spoken for, which is a perfectly good excuse and no offence taken But i think i would rather be turned down flat than have to dance with a guy who's face is tripping him. This has only happened on a couple of occassions...thankfully!....and i have never danced with these people since, But why get up to dance when it's blatantly obvious you don't want to? There's tonnes of acceptable reasons not to....changing outfit, nipping to the loo, needing air,etc. There's nothing worse to put a dampner on your dance than looking at your partner, only for him to be glaring at the DJ booth willing the record to end and making you feel like you are an inconvience

Even if i'm tired, blinded by my mascara dripping in my eyes, nursing a blister on my foot or just hate the song, i'm out for a good time and like to let it show even nicer when your partner has the same frame of mind

And just because your not dancing doesn't mean you don't have to smile....ok you may look like a loony but you'll look more approachable and more likely to be asked to dance

filthycute x x

[Franck]

Originally posted by filthycute
I've only ever been refused dances because the guy has already been spoken for, which is a perfectly good excuse and no offence taken But i think i would rather be turned down flat than have to dance with a guy who's face is tripping him. This has only happened on a couple of occassions...thankfully!....and i have never danced with these people since, But why get up to dance when it's blatantly obvious you don't want to? There's tonnes of acceptable reasons not to....changing outfit, nipping to the loo, needing air,etc. There's nothing worse to put a dampner on your dance than looking at your partner, only for him to be glaring at the DJ booth willing the record to end and making you feel like you are an inconvience

Even if i'm tired, blinded by my mascara dripping in my eyes, nursing a blister on my foot or just hate the song, i'm out for a good time and like to let it show even nicer when your partner has the same frame of mind

And just because your not dancing doesn't mean you don't have to smile....ok you may look like a loony but you'll look more approachable and more likely to be asked to dance

filthycute x x

You are completely right, one of the most common fault is not smiling (or lack of occasional eye contact ).
I often get asked how to improve style while dancing, and one of the easiest way to become a better dancer is to look like you are having a good time. This inspires confidence and fun.
Even the simplest move done with confidence and a smile looks fantastic to anyone watching and of course your partner...

So forget intricate footwork and complex moves, practise your smile and you are half-way there

Franck.

[Swinging bee]

[quote=Franck]As I read the above from snoopy, I thought that this question deserved its own thread...
I tend to agree with Snoopy in that, up to a point, it is good etiquette to ask all the ladies in a group for a dance if possible
In fact, ideally, we would dance with everyone present on the night (in an ideal world )

So girls, how do you feel? Do you feel slighted if your friend (s) get asked and you do not, do you not notice, or are you just too busy doing the asking to pay attention to such nonsense ???

I wonder...

There are some good tips at..
[url]www.jivehive.co.uk
click on dance etiquette

[Andreas]

I admit that I don't ask very often. But that is also because I spend hardly any time off the dance floor.

However, when I look around I am always inclined to ask ladies that actually do move to the music and hence do actually look like they do enjoy the music, which is the most important factor for me.

[Julie G]

Originally Posted by Franck

I tend to agree with Snoopy in that, up to a point, it is good etiquette to ask all the ladies in a group for a dance if possible
In fact, ideally, we would dance with everyone present on the night (in an ideal world )

So girls, how do you feel? Do you feel slighted if your friend (s) get asked and you do not, do you not notice, or are you just too busy doing the asking to pay attention to such nonsense ???

I wonder...

Franck.

Well in my opinion unless you have the abilities of The Tramp to dance with 5 girls at one time (that was fun Trampy!!), I don't know how you possibly could dance with all the girls in the group, so I wouldn't be too worried.

I hear over there in the UK it is quite commonplace to dance only one song with one person before moving on to the next (almost rude to do so here in Oz!), so I guess you might be able to more easily and quickly move from one girl to the next in a group, but even then it would be unfair of us girls to expect you to come back and do the rounds. If I were one of those girls, I wouldn't be waiting around for the guy to finish dancing with my friends, I'd be off finding my own guy!

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Julie G

I hear over there in the UK it is quite commonplace to dance only one song with one person before moving on to the next (almost rude to do so here in Oz!)

Maybe I'm just rude... Most of the time, I do 1 dance / 1 person, but I don't know about other leaders. Guess I'm just conscious of the large number of partners and the small amount of time in an average night. Or maybe I'm just afraid of commitment

Originally Posted by Julie G

If I were one of those girls, I wouldn't be waiting around for the guy to finish dancing with my friends, I'd be off finding my own guy!

(If I were a follower) I hate queueing, very un-British I know. But I can't recall seeing any queues forming at any dance I've been to, so I think there's a bit of urban legend in there somewhere. I've hung around waiting for the next dance with someone of course, but that's about it. Has anyone seen these queues? Maybe at weekenders...?

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Julie G

I hear over there in the UK it is quite commonplace to dance only one song with one person before moving on to the next (almost rude to do so here in Oz!)

It does indeed appear to be common practice. I usually have two, in some cases more dances with a person but VERY rarely only one. In my opinion it is rude because the person who asked will always feel like they were not good enough. So having a second dance pretty much eliminates that feeling of insufficiency. My girl friend did complain about that, too, when she was over here.