The role of the ceroc website

[stewart38]

This was advertised and still is on ceroc website

04/12/2004
Amersham Freestyle
at The Amersham Polish Club, Raans Road, Amersham
Admission £8
Start: 8:00pm
End: 11:30am
Click here for more information
or phone 01494 772 935


Only draw back is it was cancelled and moved back a week. the site was advised on wednesday. How many people turned up anyway I dont know ?

Not sure what people think as I would always take that website as read and if the event is posted on there Im not going to check by fone before hand to confirm, though of course will now

[Dreadful Scathe]

I couldnt find it on ceroc.com as I have no idea what county Amersham is in and you cant search - you can only select county or day. Nothing appears for Saturday at all.
Dodgy coded 'search' anyway - just got a 'You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'ORDER BY venue ASC' at line 1' error

Saying that though, theres no way you can expect ceroc.com to be completely up to date, thats why numbers are listed for venues - you should phone and check for availability. They should make that clear though.

http://www.cerocchilterns.co.uk/ isnt much better - nothing appears on front page except graphics and some button links which then open up info on a completely seperate page coded for IE perhaps

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

... Saying that though, theres no way you can expect ceroc.com to be completely up to date...

I disagree. In this day and age the websites should be updated with such information within an hour of the venue manager being aware. It can be set up to do this.

Even Network rail have some station departure boards online now, and they have enabled me to catch trains scheduled to leave before I left the house.

[Gus]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I disagree. In this day and age the websites should be updated with such information within an hour of the venue manager being aware. It can be set up to do this..

Sorry, but diagree. How much spare resources do you think dance organisations have to maintain their websites? Many of the organisations are one-man bands like myslef and we have enough time pressure making sure the actual nights take place without all the time we have to (somehow) divert to marketing and information activities. Even the Dark Empire (aka Ceroc) dont have infinite resources ... and communications with franchisees is not always easy.

[I hearby apologise to anyone offended by me sticking up for Ceroc(tm). Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible]

[stewart38]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I disagree. In this day and age the websites should be updated with such information within an hour of the venue manager being aware. It can be set up to do this.

Even Network rail have some station departure boards online now, and they have enabled me to catch trains scheduled to leave before I left the house.

Agree , I cant talk for smaller web sites (much of content on some is months out of date anyway)

But the national web site you would expect to be updated at least daily

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I disagree. In this day and age the websites should be updated with such information within an hour of the venue manager being aware. It can be set up to do this.

I'm in this business, I know how automated a web site can be and maybe websites "should" be updated quickly, given that there "could be" a simple interface to allow for this - but - Which Ceroc employee is available to do that 24 hours a day so that your "within an hour" can be practical? Web pages do make sharing information quick and easy but, lest we forget, it takes real people to do the work.

Even Network rail have some station departure boards online now, and they have enabled me to catch trains scheduled to leave before I left the house.

Even Network Rail ? They run the railways, they get millions in subsidies, they have whole offices dealing with automating of statistics, timetables and the like....I can see why you would equate that with a franchise dance company .

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Gus

Sorry, but diagree. How much spare resources do you think dance organisations have to maintain their websites? Many of the organisations are one-man bands like myslef and we have enough time pressure making sure the actual nights take place without all the time we have to (somehow) divert to marketing and information activities. Even the Dark Empire (aka Ceroc) dont have infinite resources ... and communications with franchisees is not always easy.

[I hearby apologise to anyone offended by me sticking up for Ceroc(tm). Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible]

Bah! Humbug! That's nonsense, my dear ODA!

The Dark Empire should use the technology available. It isn't exactly rocket science, especially if it was to make use of the uk-jive database.... (that way, it wouldn't even have had to code it itself)... *sheesh!*

[latinlover]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I disagree. In this day and age the websites should be updated with such information within an hour of the venue manager being aware. It can be set up to do this.

Even Network rail have some station departure boards online now, and they have enabled me to catch trains scheduled to leave before I left the house.

I would have thought ,IMHO, that if ,as a venue manager you had to cancel a night , then the most efficient way of informing the largest number of people would be by posting the news on the website?

or have I missed the point somewhere?

and as it is the largest organisation I ,as a humble punter, would expect Ceroc to have the most resources available to make it the best website avilable?
as it is , I have learned that there is almost never any up to date information on the ceroc website that I can use , so I hardly ever visit it now
it took them about 2 weeks to post the results of the ceroc champs this year,as I remember !

[Dreadful Scathe]

I think its clear that Ceroc don't have someone to do the updating in a timely fashion - so the question is wether we think they should have someone doing this ? I'd be inclined to say they should as well. Myself and Gus's argument is the same - it comes down to resources, but it could be argued that Ceroc HQ are not small scale in the same way as the individual franchisees can be said to be small. Also, they did have a major site overhaul which suggests they know how important a tool the WWW is.

So, especially in light of BBC cameras at the Champs and vouchers in with a major DVD release - do we all agree that for Ceroc to neglect to keep their website up to date and current is a bad idea. I've come round to this view now.

Do we all concur ?

[stewart38]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

I think its clear that Ceroc don't have someone to do the updating in a timely fashion - so the question is wether we think they should have someone doing this ? I'd be inclined to say they should as well. Myself and Gus's argument is the same - it comes down to resources, but it could be argued that Ceroc HQ are not small scale in the same way as the individual franchisees can be said to be small. Also, they did have a major site overhaul which suggests they know how important a tool the WWW is.

So, especially in light of BBC cameras at the Champs and vouchers in with a major DVD release - do we all agree that for Ceroc to neglect to keep their website up to date and current is a bad idea. I've come round to this view now.

Do we all concur ?

I would say dont have a web site if you cant keep it up todate. Have all ceroc Franchises been told to have one ,some are so much better then others

Im talking re a certain site still advertising a Halloween ball

I know small operators would have operational issues but i think if an event is cancelled, the web site should be changed.

[Lory]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I disagree. In this day and age the websites should be updated with such information within an hour of the venue manager being aware. It can be set up to do this.

I was SO lucky on Saturday!.........

I was within half an hour of leaving my house for Amersham, I checked the website for directions and there was nothing about the cancellation!!! But thankgoodness a friend rang me in the nick of time!

I would have been extremely p***ed off if I'd driven 45mins, only to found out later, they knew it was OFF since Wednesday!

[Franck]

Originally Posted by Lou

Bah! Humbug! That's nonsense, my dear ODA!

The Dark Empire should use the technology available. It isn't exactly rocket science, especially if it was to make use of the uk-jive database.... (that way, it wouldn't even have had to code it itself)... *sheesh!*

The fault doesn't lie with the technology, which is there and ready to be used, but rather with individuals who forget to email the change to the Ceroc office etc...
Everytime I update my front page, I *should* email Ceroc HQ as well, I know I should, but often don't...

It would be wonderful to have an up to date resource on ceroc.com but I have to say that even uk-jive isn't up to date if individual organisers don't maintain the information...

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Franck

The fault doesn't lie with the technology, which is there and ready to be used, but rather with individuals who forget to email the change to the Ceroc office etc...

But if you read the post that started this thread, Stewart38 says the website was informed (on Wednesday).

Have to agree with the majority here - particularly in the case of a cancellation, there's no excuse for taking more than 24 hours to update the website.

But for a couple of years now, the main Ceroc website has seemed to be a triumph of style and branding over substance, si I'm not holding my breath for changes... (And to be fair, it's a step up from the near-derelict site it used to be - it's just a shame so much effort went on the looks and so little on the content).

Dave

[Gus]

Originally Posted by stewart38

I would say dont have a web site if you cant keep it up todate..

ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE! Websites perform many purposes ...notification of changes to events is just one part of it. Having a website up with basic club information and marketing pages is invaluable to all MJ clubs, regardless of size.

I'm afraid that some of the peope making these comments appear to have no idea about what its like to try to maintain a small business with limited resources. For myslef, I agree in part with Lou, just updating UK-Jive and providing a live feed into ones own Website makes sense. HOWEVER, most people seem to keep on banging on about the technology. As with most things in buiness, its the PROCESS that is the issue .. .how do you get from a trigger (finding out that an event has changed) through to a final action of notification.

My real-life experince has been that a MINORITYof local dancers refer to the websites. Its bad enough when you email them directly with information that they dont even bother reading ... so dont out any hope of them flocking en-masse to your website to keep a constant check!

Originally Posted by stewart38

I know small operators would have operational issues but i think if an event is cancelled, the web site should be changed.

AGREE. A cancelled event puts a real onus on the organiser to take every step to stop people travelling. We tend to rely more on our mobile hotline and information phone line though. Maybe older technology but extremly effective!

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Gus

My real-life experince has been that a MINORITYof local dancers refer to the websites. Its bad enough when you email them directly with information that they dont even bother reading ... so dont out any hope of them flocking en-masse to your website to keep a constant check!

Ahhh, but dearheart - the problem is when someone bothers to check the website, but finds incorrect information there.

And yes, of course it's about process - however, there are the tools out here to make the changes quicly and easily, and it takes less than 1 minute to update. Or are you suggesting that certain club owners respect their punters so little, that they'd not even devote that much time to keep them updated?

[David Franklin]

Re: Websites should be kept up to date, or you shouldn't bother.

Originally Posted by Gus

ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE! Websites perform many purposes ...notification of changes to events is just one part of it. Having a website up with basic club information and marketing pages is invaluable to all MJ clubs, regardless of size.

Yeah, but that information doesn't go out of date, so it's not a problem. If you give yearly information, you don't have to update very often. If you give event info on a daily basis, then you really do need to update much more often.

I'm afraid that some of the peope making these comments appear to have no idea about what its like to try to maintain a small business with limited resources. As with most things in buiness, its the PROCESS that is the issue .. .how do you get from a trigger (finding out that an event has changed) through to a final action of notification.

The thing is, it's all about how you set things up (and I don't mean the technology). If you have a website like the Ceroc one, where appearance is really important, and you can search for stuff in your area, and you try to have day-to-day schedules, then that is going to be hard work to keep up. But if you basically have a page of text, then making changes is going to be very quick and easy (and I don't have ANY fancy tools - I use notepad to edit the HTML). And if you only have a local basic list of events, with only occasional stuff that needs changing (i.e. if you always have a Wednesday night, you don't have to change it), then it's really not that onerous.

On the other hand, I haven't updated my webpage (other than uploading dance clips) for about 10 months, so...

My real-life experince has been that a MINORITYof local dancers refer to the websites. Its bad enough when you email them directly with information that they dont even bother reading ... so dont out any hope of them flocking en-masse to your website to keep a constant check!

My impression is that Lynda's List gets visited quite a lot; I certainly use it.

Dave

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

Which Ceroc employee is available to do that 24 hours a day so that your "within an hour" can be practical?

There's no need for a single Ceroc employee to be a bottleneck. You could just let franchisees update their own details, via a web form. Similarly, I can update my profile on this forum without requiring manual intervention by Franck.

-Martin (web developer)