Barriers to Competition

[Gus]

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In the marketplace competition and information are the two things that ensures that the consumer gets the best product for the best price. In an ideal world this would apply to Modern Jive events. Where there are clubs in competition then standards should rise and/or prices should drop (this is clearly the case in our area as the local Ceroc club has to make their freestyle events free to give the same price/quality ratio as our Northwich freestyles ( ). HOWEVER, competition can only work if the dancers in the region are aware of the product offering of the MJ events ... or even that they exist at all. Despite the fact that many clubs use UK-JIVE to advertise their events, they then don’t put the listing out at their events for fear it will show competing events

One thing that a MJ Dancers Assoc could really make a difference with is to get all MJ operators to show all the MJ clubs/events around. The dangers would then have the knowledge of what is going on and then can make an informed decision. Good clubs will get better and the poorer clubs can either go to the wall or get their act together and start providing a quality venue for the dancers hard earned cash.
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[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Gus

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In the marketplace competition and information are the two things that ensures that the consumer gets the best product for the best price. In an ideal world this would apply to Modern Jive events. Where there are clubs in competition then standards should rise and/or prices should drop ...

The ultimate form of competition is war. If it becomes a price war quality suffers. Most people do not search the marketplace for the best value for money, especially for sub £10 goods. They settle for something that satisfies them at a fair price.
Most MJ'ers stay with their start venue until they want more dancing, and then they tend to travel where their new found friends go. We had three different operators running many venues in our area. It is the cheapest that has given up, and the middle priced one who changed their night, which was the same as a Ceroc one that is flourishing and growing. People will pay for the right product.

There are plenty of non-dancers who have never heard of MJ out there to recruit.

[Dazzle]

This post looked lonely so thought I should contribute!

From what I see, it would appear that as dancers' experience and capabilities increase so do their expectations from a dancing venue/class/event/evening. I agree with Bigd that at the price level they do not shop around based on value for money. What does tend to happen is that they will start to pick up on more; from their friends, other dancers they meet, uk-jive type websites and of course sources like this forum!

That all leads dancers to look for venues where there are classes to bring on their dancing, other dancers of an equal or better ability to do the same, space to actually dance and good music. The X free weeks they got as beginners at their first venue are often forgotten and the harsh reality of the final product become all important.

Cheap shoes are OK for getting started but once you are hooked and serious you want the best (if not several pairs for the ladies! ). Am I wrong?

There are lots of people out there still waiting to be recruited into MJ. However, it is an expensive process and once initiated dancers show little loyalty in my opinion. It is far easier and more cost effective to attract existing dancers, but this could be a little short-sighted and a short-term view. In my area there is quite a large number of venues and organisations all competing for the same market. Dancers tend to wander in packs there, and the "most popular" venue(s) tend to vary with time. Do others find this too?

[Chef]

Dazzle - You have stung me into action. This thread does look lonely and I will add something to it.

I have been dancing for a few years now and slowly making progress and what I look for now (as a venues Unique Selling Point) is different from what I wanted a few years ago.

A few years ago I wanted something that was close to home or work so that I didn't need to travel too much and a venue that was heaving to generate atmosphere. The music was OK and the teacher had a nice personality.

Now I am always amazed that I think nothing of driving for an hour and a half to get to a venue because it has that unique selling point that I crave for.

Top of my list is a good teaching TEAM. Most teachers that are in the general circuit are teachers plus stooge. The teacher (usually the leader) does all the talking and the follower just follows. The best teaching teams that I have come across are equally weighted partnerships and contribute near equally. By doing this I know what I am supposed to do, my parter at the time knows what she must do and we each have an appreciation of each others tasks and needs.

Second on the list is good music. I would love it if every track played was a favorite of mine but I know that would lock me away from discovering new stuff that I haven't heard before and it would not appeal to a wide audience (as the poor DJ - destined to never please everyone) has to. All I ask of a DJ is that the music has musicality for me to experiment with (I think others on the forum refer to the other sort of music as bompy bompy music) and there is variety of mood and pace of music.

My usual feeling on the music is - number of tracks that I don't want to dance to

1) Thank heavens for that I need a rest.
2) I think I will change my T - shirt
3) This might be a good time to go to the loo or buy another drink.
4) Better not go too far from the dance floor - the next one is bound to be great (murphys law)
5) Perhaps I should just find someone for a chat.
6,7,8) Perhaps I should just go home now.
10) Don't you just know that if you take your dance shoes off the next track will be fantastic.
11) Bye Bye.

So the DJ that plays 30mins of 80s music, then 30mins of Motown, then 30mins of rock and roll, then 30mins of latin will not be seeing me next week.

Third big point. SPACE. There is really no point in me going to all these lessons, weekenders and then being in a place where the organiser has packed them in so tight you can't take a rock step without finding another dancer in your trouser cuff. I just end up having to do travelling returns and baskets to keep my follower safe from the battering of the other dancers. I am having to do so much mental work load in space management that the rest of the dance experience for both myself and my partner goes down the tube. Definately not worth travelling for at all. Would rather stay at home.

Lastly. Quality of other dancers. The close combination of the quality of teaching and music attracts other dancers who are able dancers (or those that want to become able dancers). It puts off the yankem and pullem brigade and now that is fine with me. Years ago I was one of them but I wanted to be a better dancer than that. You can't get around it but good quality dancers at a venue will attract good quality dancers from a very wide area.

The above is why people will travel huge distances to go to Hipsters. But even Hipsters is not invunerable. If they take their eye off the ball and let any of the above factors slip in standard then they will start to lose people. People who will go and tell other people when standards slip just as readily as when they told thier friends that it was a great place to dance.

You can say whatever rubbish you like to promote your venue. It will get customers through your door once or twice. After that they will tell their friends what they think. After you have a following you must never take them for granted. Have six duff events in a row and you will find yourself on your own with a load of flashing lights, a twin CD deck and an empty hall (seen it happen to two local organisers that wouldn't listen).

Business is brutal. Advertising attracts interest but a good product sells itself over and over again as long as it stays good.