Non-MJ dancers at MJ venues?

**Sparkles** · 7th-June-2005, 02:56 PM

I was just wondering, what do people think of couples that take to the floor at MJ venues and dance but don't do ceroc/modern jive?

With the introduction of nosequins and the like is it becoming more acceptable for people to do (for example) ballroom, latin, salsa etc which may have a 'conflicting style' (have deliberately ignored things like lindy, hustle and WCS but they can be included of people wish) at MJ venues or do people find it annoying/unacceptable?
I'd be interested to hear your opinions with some explanation.

Similarly, what do people who go to ballroom/salsa etc venues think of people that attend and do MJ instead?

S. x

mick · 7th-June-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkles

I was just wondering, what do people think of couples that take to the floor at MJ venues and dance but don't do ceroc/modern jive?

is it acceptable for people to do things like lindy, hustle and WCS at MJ venues or do people find it annoying/unacceptable?
I'd be interested to hear your opinions with some explanation.

S. x

From what I have seen, Lindy has too small a following to have big regular dances, so the lindy hoppers try to infiltrate mj by requesting swing type music, even if it is only "Beyond The Sea" variety. Personally, I think it looks ridiculous.
You'd have to have rubber legs to salsa to mj music.

**David Bailey** · 7th-June-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

You'd have to have rubber legs to salsa to mj music.

Weeelll... there are some tracks that are both Latin (salsa / rumba / cha-cha)-able, and MJ-able - such as, obviously, Mambo No. 5, and Santana's Smooth.

For example, last night In the middle of a (truly awesome) set at Finchley, I happened to notice a certain person doing some serious cha-cha on the dance floor. Another example; Susie and hubbie did an awe-inspiringly good tango at the Big Fat Friday whatsit last week, I didn't see anyone complaining then. Clapping, yes; bowing down, indeed (that was me

), but certainly not complaining.

My view is, as long as it doesn't take up excessive space, you should dance any way you damned well want to. Having said that, some ballroom dances do take up space, so if you're going to do them, you need to take extra care over your space management skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkles

Similarly, what do people who go to ballroom/salsa etc venues think of people that attend and do MJ instead?

I'm not sure if I've ever seen this... It would, I think, look very very strange. MJ can absorb anything, that's it's strength. Latin, ballroom, etc. - not so much...

**El Salsero Gringo** · 7th-June-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

From what I have seen, Lindy has too small a following to have big regular dances

That's right - and when one of them has taken the Lindy CD home, the other one has nothing to dance to!

**Rhythm King** · 7th-June-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

That's right - and when one of them has taken the Lindy CD home, the other one has nothing to dance to!

I seem to remember you enjoying a predominantly Lindy event, and dancing MJ and ballroom at it to boot, only as recently as last Saturday night. An event for which nearly 1000 tickets were sold BTW

(May be persuaded to post photos, for a small fee

)

**El Salsero Gringo** · 7th-June-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhythm King

I seem to remember you enjoying a predominantly Lindy event, and dancing MJ and ballroom at it to boot, only as recently as last Saturday night. An event for which nearly 1000 tickets were sold BTW

(May be persuaded to post photos, for a small fee

)

You're quite right - I had a great time Cerocing to all those Lindy numbers. (Actually I'm jealous of people who can Lindy well, because I can't!)

What kind of fee are we talking about, for the photos?

**Tessalicious** · 7th-June-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhythm King

(May be persuaded to post photos, for a small fee

)

Don't you dare!

**Trousers** · 7th-June-2005, 04:08 PM

At the end of the day - they'll have paid their money and as far as I'm concerned they could pogo all night - may even join in for a few.

Dance is dance, We are dancers, Hell what have the Masons got that we haven't ? We even have a silly hand shake (draw a small semicircle to the left and step back)

Lets just let everyone play?

**Tessalicious** · 7th-June-2005, 04:11 PM

Back on thread though, it was common practice at the beginning for 'Squins', and still is sometimes, for MJ to be going on in the middle of the dance floor when Bobgadget put on a fast enough foxtrot track. This can be ok towards the end of the evening, when the floor is clearing as people go home, but can be a real pain earlier on when the floor is packed, since those dancers who are trying to actually dance the foxtrot (which is after all why we're there in the first place, to do ballroom, right?) have to work even harder to achieve 'floorcraft' (otherwise known as not crashing/treading on people).

Oh, and hands up as one guilty of practising cha-cha (and for that matter foxtrot) at a Ceroc night

yes I know I'm a hypocrite

**David Bailey** · 7th-June-2005, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessalicious

Oh, and hands up as one guilty of practising cha-cha (and for that matter foxtrot) at a Ceroc night

Hey, as long as it's done well...

I've absolutely no problem with anyone dancing anything to any track - but cha-cha does (I think) need more space, so yep, you'd need more attention-to-crashing-into-people, or just don't do it if the place is too crowded.

Salsa can be (and is) done in much more crowded venues than the average MJ venue, so I don't think that'd be a problem. Although some of this new-fangled cross-body leading stuff does eat up the space.

Given these constraints, I actually like seeing people do different dance styles in MJ, it's nice to see.

But I still think MJ-ing at a ballroom / latin venue is a bit, well, weird...

*Sheepman* · 7th-June-2005, 04:30 PM

I say you've paid your money, do what you like on the floor

as long as it doesn't interfere with others enjoyment.

The trouble is, I think it often will interfere, because, (perhaps excluding cha cha and samba,) if you're circulating around a busy room, there are always going to be MJers who have to take avoiding action.

If there is plenty of space, then I don't see any problem.

Greg

**El Salsero Gringo** · 7th-June-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheepman

I say you've paid your money, do what you like on the floor

as long as it doesn't interfere with others enjoyment.

The trouble is, I think it often will interfere, because, (perhaps excluding cha cha and samba,) if you're circulating around a busy room, there are always going to be MJers who have to take avoiding action.

If there is plenty of space, then I don't see any problem.

Greg

Interesting Factoid: Samba is a progressive (around the room in an anticlockwise direction) dance like a Quickstep or Foxtrot but Cha Cha isn't.

Mr Cool · 7th-June-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkles

I was just wondering, what do people think of couples that take to the floor at MJ venues and dance but don't do ceroc/modern jive?

With the introduction of nosequins and the like is it becoming more acceptable for people to do (for example) ballroom, latin, salsa etc which may have a 'conflicting style' (have deliberately ignored things like lindy, hustle and WCS but they can be included of people wish) at MJ venues or do people find it annoying/unacceptable?
I'd be interested to hear your opinions with some explanation.

Similarly, what do people who go to ballroom/salsa etc venues think of people that attend and do MJ instead?

S. x

The beauty of MJ is anything goes, I like to lead some Smooth Swing, Wcs, Balboa, Jazz steps and Blues at MJ events and anything else that fits the music. Why restrict yourself if it feels right do it. The music is KING, lets have a variety of good music. Listen to it move with it make her smile.

spindr · 7th-June-2005, 11:41 PM

To be honest there's nothing wrong with dancing the correct dance to the music -- e.g. a merengue to a merengue (like TwK played at Twyford), a quickstep to a quickstep, etc.

However, I think that if you're dancing a progressive dance amongst a mostly static set of dancers you should be prepared to avoid them. Similarly, if you are a static dancer amongst a large group of progressive dancers, then you should position yourself well away from the normal line of dance.

Similarly, if you're dancing something slightly out of the normal, then you should keep any "unexpected" movements small -- e.g. keeping a Lindy charleston small to avoid "confusing" modern jivers, etc.

And of course normal floorcraft should apply -- styling arms in a cha-cha to take them "up" rather than "out" when conditions are crowded.

SpinDr.

**David Bailey** · 8th-June-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

To be honest there's nothing wrong with dancing the correct dance to the music -- e.g. a merengue to a merengue (like TwK played at Twyford), a quickstep to a quickstep, etc.

to all that.

I don't believe anyone really watches "the whole floor" to judge the aesthetic merits of the group; if some are doing MJ, some are doing Latin, some are doing something else, who cares?

Where I am, I've definitely noticed more Latin-style dancing over the past years to Latin-style tracks - but this is a Good Thing in my opinion, and should be encouraged,

Obviously, any and all Swing dancing should be discouraged, however

MartinHarper · 8th-June-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

If you're dancing something slightly out of the normal, then you should keep any "unexpected" movements small

Also need to look around more, as most MJ folks (eg) won't stay out of slots.

**Sparkles** · 8th-June-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

Similarly, if you're dancing something slightly out of the normal, then you should keep any "unexpected" movements small

This is one of the things that I expected to cause problems - or at least the opposite is.
What I mean by this is that (for example) ballroom dancing is much more 'structured' than MJ. Set movements go in set patterns on the floor and it's quite difficult to disrupt those patterns (it is possible, but it's difficult) so whereas MJ dancers can swap and change what they're doing to make floorcraft easier, ballroom dancers will find this much more difficult - and this is especially true if they're dancing a routien rather than freestyling their ballroom dance.
So ballroom dances are much more predictable in that (eg) if you are dancing a cha cha basic, it'll always be a cha cha basic and look like a cha cha basic and follow that pattern on the floor - whereas a (eg) first move can have many variations and can twist, turn, have different endings etc and therefore is much more versitile and so collisions from this move could be more easily avoided.

So I guess what I'm asking is: should MJ dancers at an MJ venue give people doing things such as ballroom the space they need to complete their moves safely or should people doing dancing patterns that take up more room than those the majority of the people at the venue are doing give up their patterns and stop doing thier alternative dance forms at MJ venues?

**David Bailey** · 8th-June-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkles

So I guess what I'm asking is: should MJ dancers at an MJ venue give people doing things such as ballroom the space they need to complete their moves safely

Good question - sorry, but I'd say no. It's not reasonable to expect all other dancers around you to understand your routine, predict where you're going in advance, and get out of the way. Floorcraft in a crowded venue is, as you say, very much an instantaneous affair - you see someone in the way, and you alter your move very quickly to avoid crash-age.

It's also not realistic to expect other MJ dancers to open up a big circle / slot of space for you to dance in. They've paid as much as you, they have as much right to the floor space as you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkles

or should people doing dancing patterns that take up more room than those the majority of the people at the venue are doing give up their patterns and stop doing thier alternative dance forms at MJ venues?

Hmmm, I hope not, it's lovely to watch.

I'd rather say that these dancers should be even more aware of floorcraft than normal MJ dancers, because of the increased space requirements. In other words, use similar criteria as those that apply to aerials, drops, Columbian first moves, etc. All of those require more space, but I don't believe those should be banned.

Just be aware of what you're doing, and where you're doing it. But please, do keep on doing it

7th-June-2005, 02:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sparkles Glitter Queen Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Camberwell, London Posts: 2,941 Rep Power: 4 Reputation Total: 1728	Non-MJ dancers at MJ venues? I was just wondering, what do people think of couples that take to the floor at MJ venues and dance but don't do ceroc/modern jive? With the introduction of nosequins and the like is it becoming more acceptable for people to do (for example) ballroom, latin, salsa etc which may have a 'conflicting style' (have deliberately ignored things like lindy, hustle and WCS but they can be included of people wish) at MJ venues or do people find it annoying/unacceptable? I'd be interested to hear your opinions with some explanation. Similarly, what do people who go to ballroom/salsa etc venues think of people that attend and do MJ instead? S. x __________________ "Some people hope for a miracle cure, Some people just accept the world as it is" -Billy Joel "I'm going to miss you when you're gone" - Dan Hudson

7th-June-2005, 04:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
Trousers Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,172 Rep Power: 2 Reputation Total: 666	Re: Non-MJ dancers at MJ venues? At the end of the day - they'll have paid their money and as far as I'm concerned they could pogo all night - may even join in for a few. Dance is dance, We are dancers, Hell what have the Masons got that we haven't ? We even have a silly hand shake (draw a small semicircle to the left and step back) Lets just let everyone play?

7th-June-2005, 04:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tessalicious Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kentish Town Posts: 1,587 Rep Power: 3 Reputation Total: 1703	Re: Non-MJ dancers at MJ venues? Back on thread though, it was common practice at the beginning for 'Squins', and still is sometimes, for MJ to be going on in the middle of the dance floor when Bobgadget put on a fast enough foxtrot track. This can be ok towards the end of the evening, when the floor is clearing as people go home, but can be a real pain earlier on when the floor is packed, since those dancers who are trying to actually dance the foxtrot (which is after all why we're there in the first place, to do ballroom, right?) have to work even harder to achieve 'floorcraft' (otherwise known as not crashing/treading on people). Oh, and hands up as one guilty of practising cha-cha (and for that matter foxtrot) at a Ceroc night yes I know I'm a hypocrite

7th-June-2005, 04:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sheepman Commercial Operator Join Date: May 2003 Location: London Posts: 3,561 Rep Power: 3 Reputation Total: 865	Re: Non-MJ dancers at MJ venues? I say you've paid your money, do what you like on the floor as long as it doesn't interfere with others enjoyment. The trouble is, I think it often will interfere, because, (perhaps excluding cha cha and samba,) if you're circulating around a busy room, there are always going to be MJers who have to take avoiding action. If there is plenty of space, then I don't see any problem. Greg __________________ With one hand the past moves us forward, with the other it holds us back.

7th-June-2005, 11:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
spindr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 1,557 Rep Power: 3 Reputation Total: 686	Re: Non-MJ dancers at MJ venues? To be honest there's nothing wrong with dancing the correct dance to the music -- e.g. a merengue to a merengue (like TwK played at Twyford), a quickstep to a quickstep, etc. However, I think that if you're dancing a progressive dance amongst a mostly static set of dancers you should be prepared to avoid them. Similarly, if you are a static dancer amongst a large group of progressive dancers, then you should position yourself well away from the normal line of dance. Similarly, if you're dancing something slightly out of the normal, then you should keep any "unexpected" movements small -- e.g. keeping a Lindy charleston small to avoid "confusing" modern jivers, etc. And of course normal floorcraft should apply -- styling arms in a cha-cha to take them "up" rather than "out" when conditions are crowded. SpinDr.