Mix and match in beginners class

**robd** · 18th-August-2005, 02:42 PM

An interesting class last night - lots more women than men (as usual -

for the gents,

for the ladies) and a whole shedload of first nighters. A lady work colleague was on her second night and was struggling a little with the routine during rotation but coped fine when she and I worked through it in freestyle. She said that it had gone wrong a lot with the new men in rotation, as you would expect I guess. This got me to thinking about the format of the beginners class and whether a change to the format to ensure that as far as possible, beginner women were matched with experienced men and vice versa would be beneficial. I guess this would mean two groups rotating at any one time with endless potential for confusion - though with up to 11 rotating last night, beginners class overran significantly anyway. I do think this would provide a benefit to the newcomers though. I guess the other obvious difficulty is in where do you draw the line as to who sits in which camp (beginner/experienced)?

Has anywhere tried anything similar? Does it sound just too complex to organise?

Robert

ps I wonder if last night's extra deficit of men is related to the football game? It's a symptom of my Ceroc addiction that I didn't even know there was a game until I heard the result this morning whilst maybe a year or so ago I never missed an International.

**ducasi** · 18th-August-2005, 02:47 PM

Two immediate problems I see...

I'm not sure I'd want to be an "experienced" dancer if I was forced to dance only with beginners.

Beginners girls and guys should be able to meet each other during class.

**Donna** · 18th-August-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducasi

Two immediate problems I see...

I'm not sure I'd want to be an "experienced" dancer if I was forced to dance only with beginners.

Beginners girls and guys should be able to meet each other during class.

But remember when you first started...didn't you find it easier to dance with someone who was experienced? you learn better.

**ducasi** · 18th-August-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna

But remember when you first started...didn't you find it easier to dance with someone who was experienced? you learn better.

Of course... I love the beginner's class – it's just nice sometimes to have a wee respite now and then with another non-beginner.

**El Salsero Gringo** · 18th-August-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna

But remember when you first started...didn't you find it easier to dance with someone who was experienced? you learn better.

It's best to dance with a mixture of abilities. If you only dance with people who are better than you, it's extremely demoralising for you, and very very dull for them. Also when two beginners get to dance together they realise that they are not the only person in the room who 'doesn't get it' yet.

Running a successful dance class not only involves teaching people to dance, it involves making it sufficiently entertaining, and not too humiliating, so that people come back the next week. The 'lucky dip' element of the classes is one of the best things in that respect.

Finally, the trouble that even rotating one group around the room causes convinces me that to organise two rotating groups would waste more time than is feasible.

Sorry.

**Paul F** · 18th-August-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robd

ps I wonder if last night's extra deficit of men is related to the football game? It's a symptom of my Ceroc addiction that I didn't even know there was a game until I heard the result this morning whilst maybe a year or so ago I never missed an International.

I was anticipating a serious lack of men last night too but I was pleasently surprised. We had about 160 people with even numbers!! Judging by the result I bet they were glad they came dancing!
Maybe its just me assuming that all guys love football

I find it good to send me sound asleep

**Lynn** · 18th-August-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Also when two beginners get to dance together they realise that they are not the only person in the room who 'doesn't get it' yet.

In my first few lessons on hol I think I asked everyone I got on rotation if it was new to them or not. I might have been looking for some reassurance. Obviously in a beginners class you expect to find other beginners. I think that it can be helpful if several more experienced dancers are available to help beginners with any aspect of the class they were getting stuck with. Isn't that one of roles of taxis?

**under par** · 18th-August-2005, 03:17 PM

Another thought I had a few weeks ago was to try and get experienced dancers on the line where the extra(usually) ladies come back on to the line.

Having sat out or stood out a rotation to come back on to line and try to complete the "new" part of lesson with an absolute beginner means the ladies miss out twice.

and can be very demoralising for them.

Just a thought don't know what you might think!!!!

**DavidB** · 18th-August-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robd

I wonder if last night's extra deficit of men is related to the football game?

There wasn't any football last night. The English Collective of Comedy Players presented their new farce "The Tivoli Gardens". Described as a 'delightful juxtaposition of professionals and amateurs', it follows the trials and tribulations of two men - Robinson and Calamity. Rather than playing a simple straight man to Calamity's superb clown, the genius of this production is the completely straight first act. This lulls the audience into a relaxed state, totally unprepared for the mayhem that follows.

Not to be outdone, the Scottish Academy of Drama (SAD) presented their new rock opera based on the words of Robbie Burns "Aus' Tra'ia". This roughly translates as "Oh s**t we're leading, what do we do now". Full of emotion, grit and enterprise, it works superbly for 80 minutes. Sadly due to funding cuts, the last 10 minutes had to be scrapped, and in its place a short cameo from their previous artistic director Bertie Vogts was inserted.

**Donna** · 18th-August-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducasi

Of course... I love the beginner's class – it's just nice sometimes to have a wee respite now and then with another non-beginner.

Of course it it. I do try to dance with a least four or five beginners in my venue and then that's it....NO MORE! How come Cameron Diaz turned into an ice cream???

**Russell Saxby** · 18th-August-2005, 04:06 PM

When I am on stage teaching, I try and keep an eye for those beginners that are really struggling.

If I spot one, I try to judge the next move round so that they get paired up with an on / off duty taxi, or someone I know to be experienced.

Obviuosly you can only work this to help out one beginner at a time - but it does sometimes help.

Russell

**Rhythm King** · 18th-August-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidB

There wasn't any football last night. The English Collective of Comedy Players presented their new farce "The Tivoli Gardens". Described as a 'delightful juxtaposition of professionals and amateurs', it follows the trials and tribulations of two men - Robinson and Calamity. Rather than playing a simple straight man to Calamity's superb clown, the genius of this production is the completely straight first act. This lulls the audience into a relaxed state, totally unprepared for the mayhem that follows.

Not to be outdone, the Scottish Academy of Drama (SAD) presented their new rock opera based on the words of Robbie Burns "Aus' Tra'ia". This roughly translates as "Oh s**t we're leading, what do we do now". Full of emotion, grit and enterprise, it works superbly for 80 minutes. Sadly due to funding cuts, the last 10 minutes had to be scrapped, and in its place a short cameo from their previous artistic director Bertie Vogts was inserted.

**Donna** · 18th-August-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell Saxby

When I am on stage teaching, I try and keep an eye for those beginners that are really struggling.

If I spot one, I try to judge the next move round so that they get paired up with an on / off duty taxi, or someone I know to be experienced.

Obviuosly you can only work this to help out one beginner at a time - but it does sometimes help.

Russell

I agree this is the best way to do it. There's only one teacher I know that does that.

**ducasi** · 18th-August-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna

How come Cameron Diaz turned into an ice cream???

Better chance of being licked.

**Donna** · 18th-August-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducasi

Better chance of being licked.

**Paul F** · 18th-August-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidB

There wasn't any football last night. The English Collective of Comedy Players presented their new farce "The Tivoli Gardens". Described as a 'delightful juxtaposition of professionals and amateurs', it follows the trials and tribulations of two men - Robinson and Calamity. Rather than playing a simple straight man to Calamity's superb clown, the genius of this production is the completely straight first act. This lulls the audience into a relaxed state, totally unprepared for the mayhem that follows.

Not to be outdone, the Scottish Academy of Drama (SAD) presented their new rock opera based on the words of Robbie Burns "Aus' Tra'ia". This roughly translates as "Oh s**t we're leading, what do we do now". Full of emotion, grit and enterprise, it works superbly for 80 minutes. Sadly due to funding cuts, the last 10 minutes had to be scrapped, and in its place a short cameo from their previous artistic director Bertie Vogts was inserted.

Very well put ....and from what I hear, very accurate

Dazzle · 19th-August-2005, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robd

I guess this would mean two groups rotating at any one time with endless potential for confusion - though with up to 11 rotating last night, beginners class overran significantly anyway.

Not on the night in question, but on a football afflicted occasion I have had 25 ladies to move around. I had to move them around in two groups initially as I didn't even have that many men

. So interspersing was out as well!

The hardest part of any class always seems to be moving people around! You can try and put any number of things in place, but it only takes one wayward dancer to **** the whole thing up for you!

**Russell Saxby** · 19th-August-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzle

The hardest part of any class always seems to be moving people around! You can try and put any number of things in place, but it only takes one wayward dancer to **** the whole thing up for you!

TiggsTours · 19th-August-2005, 01:36 PM

As a female taxi dancer, there's one thing I feel very strongly about, and that is female taxi dancers standing in as men in the beginners class. We're not just there to even the numbers up, we're there to help the beginners to understand what they are doing. As beginners, men always need more help than women, and so the female taxis dancing as women in class is vital! What I do instead is take one of the ladies when I'm in the queue and do the class on the side, always making sure I partner a different lady each time.

I don't agree with the concept of only partnering beginners with more experienced dancers. Beginners always find it easier when partnered with a more experienced dancer, for obvious reasons, but that means they are not really learning to lead / follow the move. Its important to do the move with someone who doesn't know what they are doing either, that way, when you get it right, you know that you led it right!

Dazzle · 19th-August-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

I don't agree with the concept of only partnering beginners with more experienced dancers. Beginners always find it easier when partnered with a more experienced dancer, for obvious reasons, but that means they are not really learning to lead / follow the move. Its important to do the move with someone who doesn't know what they are doing either, that way, when you get it right, you know that you led it right!

You can also end up with women always leading the men and that's the last thing we men need!

18th-August-2005, 02:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
robd Basically lazy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nr Cambridge Posts: 2,624 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 1665	Mix and match in beginners class An interesting class last night - lots more women than men (as usual - for the gents, for the ladies) and a whole shedload of first nighters. A lady work colleague was on her second night and was struggling a little with the routine during rotation but coped fine when she and I worked through it in freestyle. She said that it had gone wrong a lot with the new men in rotation, as you would expect I guess. This got me to thinking about the format of the beginners class and whether a change to the format to ensure that as far as possible, beginner women were matched with experienced men and vice versa would be beneficial. I guess this would mean two groups rotating at any one time with endless potential for confusion - though with up to 11 rotating last night, beginners class overran significantly anyway. I do think this would provide a benefit to the newcomers though. I guess the other obvious difficulty is in where do you draw the line as to who sits in which camp (beginner/experienced)? Has anywhere tried anything similar? Does it sound just too complex to organise? Robert ps I wonder if last night's extra deficit of men is related to the football game? It's a symptom of my Ceroc addiction that I didn't even know there was a game until I heard the result this morning whilst maybe a year or so ago I never missed an International.

18th-August-2005, 02:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
ducasi Lovely Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Glasgow Posts: 9,646 Status: back down with a thump. Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 6 Rep.: 3281	Re: Mix and match in beginners class Two immediate problems I see... I'm not sure I'd want to be an "experienced" dancer if I was forced to dance only with beginners. Beginners girls and guys should be able to meet each other during class. __________________ Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

18th-August-2005, 03:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
under par Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Worthing Posts: 5,960 Status: No Status Rep Power: 5 Rep.: 2420	Re: Mix and match in beginners class Another thought I had a few weeks ago was to try and get experienced dancers on the line where the extra(usually) ladies come back on to the line. Having sat out or stood out a rotation to come back on to line and try to complete the "new" part of lesson with an absolute beginner means the ladies miss out twice. and can be very demoralising for them. Just a thought don't know what you might think!!!!

18th-August-2005, 04:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
Russell Saxby Ceroc Teacher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Welling, Kent Posts: 418 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 302	Re: Mix and match in beginners class When I am on stage teaching, I try and keep an eye for those beginners that are really struggling. If I spot one, I try to judge the next move round so that they get paired up with an on / off duty taxi, or someone I know to be experienced. Obviuosly you can only work this to help out one beginner at a time - but it does sometimes help. Russell

19th-August-2005, 01:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
TiggsTours Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Shepherds Bush Posts: 1,790 Status: No Status Rep Power: 0 Rep.: 872	Re: Mix and match in beginners class As a female taxi dancer, there's one thing I feel very strongly about, and that is female taxi dancers standing in as men in the beginners class. We're not just there to even the numbers up, we're there to help the beginners to understand what they are doing. As beginners, men always need more help than women, and so the female taxis dancing as women in class is vital! What I do instead is take one of the ladies when I'm in the queue and do the class on the side, always making sure I partner a different lady each time. I don't agree with the concept of only partnering beginners with more experienced dancers. Beginners always find it easier when partnered with a more experienced dancer, for obvious reasons, but that means they are not really learning to lead / follow the move. Its important to do the move with someone who doesn't know what they are doing either, that way, when you get it right, you know that you led it right!

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