Workshops (fancy a good row?)

[LMC]

I went to a style workshop yesterday, which was well taught and I picked up some useful stuff (armjive footwork - at last I get it!!!). But I still don't feel I really got value for my 30 quid and won't be paying that for another - I'll pick up whatever else I need from better dancers than me (there's enough of 'em!), private lessons, weekenders or workshops where even numbers are guaranteed.

I booked this workshop weeks ago. I was not best pleased to turn up and find that there were two extra women, which meant that with only 10 couples, us girls spent approximately 20% of the workshop standing out. We could join in on practising the footwork while not partnered up, but there is no way of really getting the style right (tension, spare arm, etc) on your own. Uneven numbers don't seem to be so much of an issue at the beginners' and intermediate 1 & 2 workshops. But for specialist workshops, IMO, the organisers should make every effort to *ensure* even numbers.

If the numbers are "out" because people don't show (after having paid ) then this can't be helped - but to the best of my knowledge this wasn't the case yesterday. Also, it's unlikely that there will be more than one or two "no shows" so if teacher and demo lead, then when it comes to the freestyle practice bits (which were the bits I *really* resented missing) the numbers are still even.

Now I've had my rant, the constructive recommendations are:

- book even numbers at specialist workshops
- demo should be able to lead (yesterday's couldn't do even beginners' moves in freestyle which meant that I missed out on half the warm up)
- possibly offer free places to taxi dancers, who can balance the numbers by playing lead or follow role as appropriate - keep the paying customers happy.

Discuss....

[robd]

Fancy naming and shaming the culprits?

[Lory]

Originally Posted by LMC

Discuss....

Is that an order

(nervous voice) I I I, can't comment, as I've never been to one (don't hit me) ok?

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by LMC

I booked this workshop weeks ago. I was not best pleased to turn up and find that there were two extra women, which meant that with only 10 couples, us girls spent approximately 20% of the workshop standing out.

You'll be talking about the Ceroc style workshop, run yesterday in Kentish Town then?

If so, you should write to Richard who is in charge of Ceroc workshops for Ceroc London, and explain why you're unhappy, and ask what he proposes to do about it.

Don't forget to publish his reply on the Forum.

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by robd

Fancy naming and shaming the culprits?

From reading the forum over the past week or so, I've got a good guess...

Maybe a search for "workshop 4th september" would find it...

LMC, I'm sympathetic both to your plight and to the workshop organiser's.

I'm sure they try to balance the numbers, but it's very difficult. Do you turn away keen ladies before you are sure you won't get more lazy guys booking late?

I think that drafting in taxi dancers to even the numbers would be the best idea. I was once offered a free place at a beginner's workshop when I was just on the cusp of the beginner to intermediate move, to help balance things out, but I was unable to attend and the workshop in the end was cancelled.

[LMC]

Lory - you are just *too* nice...

Robd - it's the "even numbers at workshops" principle I hoped might be an interesting discussion rather than "X franchisee is Evil"

EDIT: ESG - as when I complained about a franchisee previously, I have contacted, not just moaned on here. Additionally, a couple of us girls told Richard about this yesterday, although the taxis idea has only occurred to me today (on reflection). As I said to Rob, it's the principle of even numbers I want to discuss. Yes, it's fairly obvious "who" it is to anyone who cares to investigate, but I didn't want to say who it was until Richard has had an opportunity to respond.

[El Salsero Gringo]

By the way, Amir's musicality workshop yesterday was perfectly matched in numbers (10 couples), very interesting, and a snip at £25.

I was even treated to the voyeuristic pleasure of watching George (former head of the Ceroc Teachers Association and mistress of all dance-things that are Ceroc, who was attending the workshop incognito) staring impassively at the master of MJ himself while he explained in great detail exactly what was wrong with the Ceroc 'First Move' and why his version is better to dance and more musical to boot.

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

By the way, Amir's musicality workshop yesterday was perfectly matched in numbers (10 couples) ...

Well my guess was wrong then!

Sounds like it was a good workshop.

[robd]

Originally Posted by LMC

Lory - you are just *too* nice...
Robd - it's the "even numbers at workshops" principle I hoped might be an interesting discussion rather than "X franchisee is Evil"

It's a tricky area. Unless you only take bookings from couples (in the leader/follower sense rather than m/f) how can you guarantee it?

The taxi dancer idea seems a good one if you can get people at short enough notice.

On a different note,do you know why the fella who started the DLS workshop with us at Daventry left/was asked to leave very early in proceedings? Had he turned up on spec?

Robert

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Well my guess was wrong then!

Therein lies the danger of the "I'm not going to say who, but you can all guess..." style of Forum posting. Negative rep from me to everyone who indulges in it, from now on.

[Sparkles]

As a lone female turning up to a workshop I suppose there's always the possibility that you may end up without a partner (these things tend to happen). So, in future, to avoid this maybe it would be better to ask a guy to book the workshop with you and be 'your partner' for the workshop - that way you have already garunteed that you won't ever be standing out.

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Therein lies the danger of the "I'm not going to say who, but you can all guess..." style of Forum posting. Negative rep from me to everyone who indulges in it, from now on.

I'm not going to say who is going to give me negative rep for this post, but you can all guess.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by DavidB

I'm not going to say who is going to give me negative rep for this post, but you can all guess.

hehehehe

[bigdjiver]

As well as no-shows workshops are plagued by "leave-earlies". I have twice been used as a "reserve" in the event of there being extra women, and had to leave because, despite equal bookings, there were extra men.

[LMC]

ESG, that's a tough call - as I said, I wanted to give Ceroc London a chance to respond to my e-mail before revealing ID. I had forgotten Amir's workshop was the same day and so apologies to all for confusion concerned.

Sparkles - doesn't always help if the workshops organisers want to rotate partners unfortunately - as other lone women may book! This is why I booked so early: as it happened, someone I regularly dance with booked later, if I'd known he wanted to go we would have booked together.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by LMC

ESG, that's a tough call - as I said, I wanted to give Ceroc London a chance to respond to my e-mail before revealing ID.

Then wait till you have the reply before starting the thread.

[SilverFox]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Then wait till you have the reply before starting the thread.

For an ass, you're really quite wise.


Wise ass....

[Lou]

Originally Posted by LMC

Now I've had my rant, the constructive recommendations are:

- book even numbers at specialist workshops
- demo should be able to lead (yesterday's couldn't do even beginners' moves in freestyle which meant that I missed out on half the warm up)
- possibly offer free places to taxi dancers, who can balance the numbers by playing lead or follow role as appropriate - keep the paying customers happy.

Discuss....

As a woman who gets fed up with us always outnumbering the chaps, I totally understand your frustration. And I think it's fair enough to discuss it now, in generic terms.

I agree that it would probably make sense to advertise similar technique-based workshops as "bring a partner", to ensure that everyone gets their money's worth. And if you can't find a partner who is available that day, most teachers/organisers are happy to try and pair you up in advance. Also, that way it's not specified as "fixed partner", so if required, the teacher can still rotate the class (for example, if you need to try dancing with different people to adjust your lead/follow technique).

I disagree about the demo always having to be able to lead. IMO, a good female Demo needs to be able to show her movements clearly, and add style, to inspire the class. However, the Taxi solution would work very well (of course, assuming that they were well rewarded for their participation ).

[Bex]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Well my guess was wrong then!

Sounds like it was a good workshop.

Amir's doing the same Musicality workshop for us at Twyford on Saturday 17th September, if anyone missed out on this one!!! PM me for more details!

[Damien]

Having been a Forum member for a few months now and read numerous comments from various members I have come to the conclusion that AMIR is a god!

I just wish he would hold a few workshops in the north - we have plenty of macho blokes here who love to dance and attend workshops.