If it was your venue, what would you do?

*Keith* · 16th-September-2005, 12:39 AM

If you could choose what happened on a normal dance night, what would you want to see?

Lessons; Longer, shorter, different types, ie Specialist areas, not just other forms of dance, besides the normal lessons with 3 or 4 Int/Adv moves
Opening & closing times
Freestyle time v Lesson time
Door policy
Freebies, water, ice cream
Music, type of play-lists
More helpers or less, helpers in other roles, doing other jobs, ie teaching beginners?
Cabaret
Videos with dance or dance related films playing
Lets let our minds wonder off & see if any Companies take notice

TiggsTours · 16th-September-2005, 09:54 AM

Good question, and about time somebody asked it really!

My thoughts on the subject:

Beginners Lesson - I think this is just about right, pitched at the right level, and about the right length already, so I don't think I'd change anything there.

Intermediate Lesson - I think this could be a bit shorter (in moves) but the same length of time, does anyone ever actually come away from an intermediate class feeling they've learnt all the moves right, and will use them all?

Review classes - These are such a bonus, keeps the beginners entertained while the intermediate class is on, and helps them to learn too. I do think somethings missing though, and this is something that is mentioned to me every week at the venue I taxi at. Its a really huge leap from beginners to intermediate, and there needs to be something in between. Alot of guys (in particular) find they really struggle to ever get out of beginners because of it. For example, mentioned to me yesterday, moves are often taught and the teacher will say "this is a variation on the pretzel, or the sway" all very good when these 2 moves used to be taught in beginners class, but they are not anymore, and haven't been for some time. A suggestion would be that intermediate moves are based on the beginners moves taught that evening, or that another review class takes place (in venues with the space) where the beginners class + 1 intermediate, or the linking moves to intermediate, are taught.

Taxi dancers - Moves nicely on. I know its difficult, but I think each venue should have 2 leaders & 2 followers every night. I also think believe, very strongly, that follower taxi dancers should NEVER go into the beginners class as a leader! Its the leaders that (generally) need more help, what good is it if the female taxi dancer is standing in as a man to make up the numbers! There's nothing to stop a female taxi dancer taking the leaders part when she's standing in the line-up, but she should ALWAYS circulate in the class to dance with the men.

Taxi rank - This is an idea I've seen work really well at other venues is the past. Taxi dancers out there, how often have you been desperately searching for a beginner to dance with in freestyle, and they're all hiding!? Happens all the time! If there is an area in the room that beginners know that taxi dancers will always congregate in when free, or return to, in order to find them, they are easily found.

Opening & closing times - I think this is OKish, I think 7:45 for the start of the beginners class is about right, lesson till 8:15, freestyle till 8:30, class 8:30 - 9:45 (would extend this one a bit) freestyle 9:45 - 11:45, that would be about right I think.

Freebies - from a punters perspective, free water sounds great! but to be honest (picked up on this on a conversation on another forum) its not really practicle. Most venues would not survive on door takings alone, so need the revenue from the bar, most dancers only drink water, so giving free water would take this revenue, venues would be forced to either hike up their prices (defeats the issue) or close down! Free mints, as mentioned on another thread (can't remember who, but well done!) is a great idea though! Who wants to dance with Mr/Mrs Garlic breath really!?

Music - Always a difficult one, everybody likes different stuff, but there should be a good mix of everything, in order to suit all tastes. The DJ should be catering to the customer, not to their own taste.

Cabaret - Not on a freestyle night! More dancing please!

Videos with dance or dance related films playing - That wpuld be nice, on the front desk when you enter would be good.

That's all from me, think I've said enough really. Good thread!

bigdjiver · 16th-September-2005, 11:15 AM

"Free" water - Ceroc should pay for it, and include it in admission.
Bring your own mints, choccys, whatever.
3 Move intermediate class
Closing times? Who needs closing times?

*Bex* · 16th-September-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

"Free" water - Ceroc should pay for it, and include it in admission.

I think TiggsTours summed it up in her post under 'Freebies'. The venue owners need to make a certain amount of revenue on the bar otherwise they'll just continue to hike up the hall hire charges, which eventually gets passed on to the paying punters unfortunately!!

We get constant complaints from one of our venues in particular when people bring their own drinks with them too

.

But we do get mints and sweetie's!!!

Have also heard of another venue who provides deoderant in the mens and ladies loo's

, that's smell has gotta be worse than garlic breath!

Jooles · 16th-September-2005, 11:52 AM

I think it would be a good idea if venues advertised a time structure and stuck to it. It drives me crazy in south west London when the teacher just finishes a class when he or she feels like it.

I also think a teacher should be MORE than encouraged to stay after the class and dance with as many as they can. At the moment I think ceroc would tell you that a teacher IS encouraged to stay on, but, in my experience, many don't bother.

As for the water issue, I always feel that if the event is being held in a venue with a proper bar then I don't mind paying for water. After all if I was there as a punter on a regular dance night, I wouldn't expect to get glasses of water free all night. However, when it's held in a scout hut or church hall or the like, then I think the water should be free. I assume, possibly wrongly, that these venues are less expensive to hire and therefore it's just ceroc who are lining their pockets selling bottled water and not the venue.

**Lynn** · 16th-September-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith

If you could choose what happened on a normal dance night, what would you want to see?

I would like to see a teacher! I do all the rest of the stuff myself, booking venue, setting up, music, drinks, door, contact list - all with the help of other NI dancers (

). The one thing I don't have is a teacher - so no regular class

latinlover · 16th-September-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooles

I also think a teacher should be MORE than encouraged to stay after the class and dance with as many as they can. At the moment I think ceroc would tell you that a teacher IS encouraged to stay on, but, in my experience, many don't bother.

.

I remember as a beginner feeling really great if I could get to dance with the teacher (or the demonstrator)
these guys are the figureheads of ceroc as far as beginners are concerned and I think the more approachable they are the more successful the venue will be

spindr · 16th-September-2005, 12:54 PM

"Greeters" at the door
================
If you turn up at a new venue it's great to get someone to introduce you to the format -- point out the bar, other facilities, etc. Rather than *just* take your money and leave you to your own devices -- especially if there are several options / levels. In fact the "greeters" should probably be the taxi dancers

Name badges for staff
=================
'Nuff said.

Run classes concurrently
===================
The best classes I know run the beginners / improvers / intermediates concurrently -- you get twice as much teaching for your money. And there's less pressure to jump levels.

Bar and drinks machine
=================
Always great if there's a soft drinks vending machine about -- especially if you miss last orders.

Teachers that dance with beginners
===========================
It's great if the teacher makes a point of getting the beginners to dance their first dance with the other dancers *AND* dances with a beginner themselves.

TiggsTours · 16th-September-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

In fact the "greeters" should probably be the taxi dancers

Certainly when I taxiied at Twickenham, we were asked to help out with greeting new beginners, and I do try to hang around near the desk at Ashtons when I'm there, to help out when I can. I agree, that if a taxi dancer is there before class starts, it would be good if they can do this, and also helps them to meet the beginners, and beginners to meet them, before things even get started.

That said, most of us work right, and 7:30 is VERY early, if you have to travel home, eat, shower, change and then travel to the venue, we can't always make it in time! I think it should be an "if you're there in time please help out" rather than an expected duty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

Name badges for staff
=================
'Nuff said.

Seeing as that would include me, hate the idea, but yeah, you're right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

Run classes concurrently

OK if venues have the space, but most don't. Also, a key thing for helping some people to get through a class and learn is having people who are at a higher level in the class helping them out. I do think that people should be encouraged to stay in beginners until a taxi dancer suggests they try intermediate though, bit controversial, I know.[/quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

Bar and drinks machine

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

Teachers that dance with beginners

The venue I started at, the teacher made a point of always dancing with beginners on their first night, then again about 6 weeks later, he would then spend some time with them, telling them what the needed to do to improve, and praising them too! A teacher, after all, should spend sime time with students on an individual basis, not just run a class.

[QUOTE-Lynn]I would like to see a teacher! I do all the rest of the stuff myself, booking venue, setting up, music, drinks, door, contact list - all with the help of other NI dancers ( ). The one thing I don't have is a teacher - so no regular class[/quote]
Ever thought of learning to be a teacher yourself? You're obviously very dedicated.

ChrisA · 16th-September-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

Run classes concurrently
===================
The best classes I know run the beginners / improvers / intermediates concurrently -- you get twice as much teaching for your money. And there's less pressure to jump levels.

Huh???

How does that follow?

If the classes run concurrently, you can only go to one of them. How is that more teaching for your money, unless they're twice as long as they would be if they ran consecutively? And I'd have thought there was more pressure to jump levels - rather than do both beginners and intermediates.

**dance cat** · 16th-September-2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooles

I also think a teacher should be MORE than encouraged to stay after the class and dance with as many as they can. At the moment I think ceroc would tell you that a teacher IS encouraged to stay on, but, in my experience, many don't bother.

Ah yes. The bane of my life. Teachers should be on duty for the whole of the evening going round as many people as possible because then they will get a better idea of how effective their teaching is.(Rant over)
Music is a big issue for me too. Variety is after all the spice of life.
(Rant back on)And for my other big issue-please, please, please-more style, musicality, information on how the move should feel etc would be a big improvement rather than the fascination with how many drops can be taught in a class as a mark of 'an experienced dancer'. I am fed up with my back being hurt by people who have been taught a drop in a lesson and think they'll practise it on everyone they dance with. This is after I have clearly told them I don't do drops. Surely teaching drops in a class where you can't see how everyone is doing it is not safe. I have nothing against learning drops because they look fantastic when done correctly but I think this could be something that is offered in smaller groups like the specialist areas Keith mentioned in his post.
Oh and finally no cabaret please
(Sorry misbehaving computer induced rant- normalish service will resume soon I hope

)

TiggsTours · 16th-September-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dance cat

And for my other big issue-please, please, please-more style, musicality, information on how the move should feel etc would be a big improvement rather than the fascination with how many drops can be taught in a class.

One of my biggest pet complaints is that classes are always about the lead! No wonder women beginners end up leading themselves through moves, when they are not being taught how to follow the move, just how to "do" it!

**Russell Saxby** · 16th-September-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

Opening & closing times - I think this is OKish, I think 7:45 for the start of the beginners class is about right, lesson till 8:15, freestyle till 8:30, class 8:30 - 9:45 (would extend this one a bit) freestyle 9:45 - 11:45, that would be about right I think.

11.45pm .... a typo????

spindr · 16th-September-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisA

How does that follow?

If the classes run concurrently, you can only go to one of them. How is that more teaching for your money, unless they're twice as long as they would be if they ran consecutively? And I'd have thought there was more pressure to jump levels - rather than do both beginners and intermediates.

You turn up: you do beginners part #1, improvers part #2, or intermediate part#1
You have a break / mini-freestyle
You continue the class you were in and do part#2
You all freestyle together afterwards.

SpinDr.

spindr · 16th-September-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

Certainly when I taxiied at Twickenham, we were asked to help out with greeting new beginners, and I do try to hang around near the desk at Ashtons when I'm there, to help out when I can. I agree, that if a taxi dancer is there before class starts, it would be good if they can do this, and also helps them to meet the beginners, and beginners to meet them, before things even get started.

It's not just beginners -- if the class is offering choices, then they need to be explained to any one new who turns up, not just beginners. E.g. a certain Ealing venue used to have classes downstairs, as well as up -- but there wasn't any indication about them, unless you were in the know.

SpinDr.

TiggsTours · 16th-September-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindr

It's not just beginners -- if the class is offering choices, then they need to be explained to any one new who turns up, not just beginners. E.g. a certain Ealing venue used to have classes downstairs, as well as up -- but there wasn't any indication about them, unless you were in the know.

SpinDr.

A-ha! I think the "certain Ealing venue" is not a Ceroc venue, and does not have taxi dancers.

Taxi dancers are there for the beginners, why should we be expected to deal with everybody else too?

TiggsTours · 16th-September-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell Saxby

11.45pm .... a typo????

no, just thought it was obvious I meant pm, you didn't query my 7:45, 8:15, 8:30 or 9:00. I was just using the 12 hour clock, not 24 hr, and didn't include the am or pm as I would have thought we could all work that one out.

**Russell Saxby** · 16th-September-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

no, just thought it was obvious I meant pm, you didn't query my 7:45, 8:15, 8:30 or 9:00. I was just using the 12 hour clock, not 24 hr, and didn't include the am or pm as I would have thought we could all work that one out.

I was not querying AM or PM just the finish time an evening that starts at 7.45pm and goes onto 11.45pm.

Not sure how many venues would allow the evening to go on that late, and if they did they the hall hire would probably increase.

On top of that don't think many organisers would want to be still clearing up gone midnight on a worknight - I for one have work the next morning.

Pie in the sky, but I guess it is a wish list..top of mine would be a page 3 girl taking

... sorry forgetting myself, thought I was on the other forum.

Sounds to me this would turn it into more of a freestyle event, with people turning up late after the classes just to dance. IMO this would make Fri & Sat freestyles less special

TiggsTours · 16th-September-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell Saxby

I was not querying AM or PM just the finish time an evening that starts at 7.45pm and goes onto 11.45pm.

Not sure how many venues would allow the evening to go on that late, and if they did they the hall hire would probably increase.

On top of that don't think many organisers would want to be still clearing up gone midnight on a worknight - I for one have work the next morning.

Pie in the sky, but I guess it is a wish list..top of mine would be a page 3 girl taking

... sorry forgetting myself, thought I was on the other forum.

Sounds to be this would turn it into more of a freestyle event, with people turning up late after the classes just to dance. IMO this would make Fri & Sat freestyles less special

But I'd said extend the intermediate class by 15 mins, which was why I said extend freestyle by 15 mins too, so no extra freestyle there.

It is a wish list, my wish list would also include not have to get up for work the next day, so that we could dance till 4am, without it costing anything!

**Russell Saxby** · 16th-September-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

But I'd said extend the intermediate class by 15 mins, which was why I said extend freestyle by 15 mins too, so no extra freestyle there.

It is a wish list, my wish list would also include not have to get up for work the next day, so that we could dance till 4am, without it costing anything!

I guess you are referring to Ealing which finishes at 11.30pm - I certainly don't know any Ceroc nights that go on that late, but I am sure you will let me know if there is one out there

As you get further away from London - I would think it would be even less likely, to get a venue until that late - bit I guess is possible.

In this 24hr culture - we could do wot all the call centres are doing and hire an DJ based in India, don't suppose it would take too much to set up some sort of link to broadcast his over here set.

16th-September-2005, 12:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
Keith Commercial Operator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 178 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 50	If it was your venue, what would you do? If you could choose what happened on a normal dance night, what would you want to see? Lessons; Longer, shorter, different types, ie Specialist areas, not just other forms of dance, besides the normal lessons with 3 or 4 Int/Adv moves Opening & closing times Freestyle time v Lesson time Door policy Freebies, water, ice cream Music, type of play-lists More helpers or less, helpers in other roles, doing other jobs, ie teaching beginners? Cabaret Videos with dance or dance related films playing Lets let our minds wonder off & see if any Companies take notice

16th-September-2005, 09:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
TiggsTours Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Shepherds Bush Posts: 1,790 Status: No Status Rep Power: 0 Rep.: 872	Re: If it was your venue, what would you do? Good question, and about time somebody asked it really! My thoughts on the subject: Beginners Lesson - I think this is just about right, pitched at the right level, and about the right length already, so I don't think I'd change anything there. Intermediate Lesson - I think this could be a bit shorter (in moves) but the same length of time, does anyone ever actually come away from an intermediate class feeling they've learnt all the moves right, and will use them all? Review classes - These are such a bonus, keeps the beginners entertained while the intermediate class is on, and helps them to learn too. I do think somethings missing though, and this is something that is mentioned to me every week at the venue I taxi at. Its a really huge leap from beginners to intermediate, and there needs to be something in between. Alot of guys (in particular) find they really struggle to ever get out of beginners because of it. For example, mentioned to me yesterday, moves are often taught and the teacher will say "this is a variation on the pretzel, or the sway" all very good when these 2 moves used to be taught in beginners class, but they are not anymore, and haven't been for some time. A suggestion would be that intermediate moves are based on the beginners moves taught that evening, or that another review class takes place (in venues with the space) where the beginners class + 1 intermediate, or the linking moves to intermediate, are taught. Taxi dancers - Moves nicely on. I know its difficult, but I think each venue should have 2 leaders & 2 followers every night. I also think believe, very strongly, that follower taxi dancers should NEVER go into the beginners class as a leader! Its the leaders that (generally) need more help, what good is it if the female taxi dancer is standing in as a man to make up the numbers! There's nothing to stop a female taxi dancer taking the leaders part when she's standing in the line-up, but she should ALWAYS circulate in the class to dance with the men. Taxi rank - This is an idea I've seen work really well at other venues is the past. Taxi dancers out there, how often have you been desperately searching for a beginner to dance with in freestyle, and they're all hiding!? Happens all the time! If there is an area in the room that beginners know that taxi dancers will always congregate in when free, or return to, in order to find them, they are easily found. Opening & closing times - I think this is OKish, I think 7:45 for the start of the beginners class is about right, lesson till 8:15, freestyle till 8:30, class 8:30 - 9:45 (would extend this one a bit) freestyle 9:45 - 11:45, that would be about right I think. Freebies - from a punters perspective, free water sounds great! but to be honest (picked up on this on a conversation on another forum) its not really practicle. Most venues would not survive on door takings alone, so need the revenue from the bar, most dancers only drink water, so giving free water would take this revenue, venues would be forced to either hike up their prices (defeats the issue) or close down! Free mints, as mentioned on another thread (can't remember who, but well done!) is a great idea though! Who wants to dance with Mr/Mrs Garlic breath really!? Music - Always a difficult one, everybody likes different stuff, but there should be a good mix of everything, in order to suit all tastes. The DJ should be catering to the customer, not to their own taste. Cabaret - Not on a freestyle night! More dancing please! Videos with dance or dance related films playing - That wpuld be nice, on the front desk when you enter would be good. That's all from me, think I've said enough really. Good thread!

16th-September-2005, 11:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
bigdjiver Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: bedford Posts: 3,889 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 801	Re: If it was your venue, what would you do? "Free" water - Ceroc should pay for it, and include it in admission. Bring your own mints, choccys, whatever. 3 Move intermediate class Closing times? Who needs closing times?

16th-September-2005, 11:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jooles Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Posts: 85 Status: No Status Rep Power: 4 Rep.: 55	Re: If it was your venue, what would you do? I think it would be a good idea if venues advertised a time structure and stuck to it. It drives me crazy in south west London when the teacher just finishes a class when he or she feels like it. I also think a teacher should be MORE than encouraged to stay after the class and dance with as many as they can. At the moment I think ceroc would tell you that a teacher IS encouraged to stay on, but, in my experience, many don't bother. As for the water issue, I always feel that if the event is being held in a venue with a proper bar then I don't mind paying for water. After all if I was there as a punter on a regular dance night, I wouldn't expect to get glasses of water free all night. However, when it's held in a scout hut or church hall or the like, then I think the water should be free. I assume, possibly wrongly, that these venues are less expensive to hire and therefore it's just ceroc who are lining their pockets selling bottled water and not the venue.

16th-September-2005, 12:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
spindr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 1,565 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 688	Re: If it was your venue, what would you do? "Greeters" at the door ================ If you turn up at a new venue it's great to get someone to introduce you to the format -- point out the bar, other facilities, etc. Rather than just take your money and leave you to your own devices -- especially if there are several options / levels. In fact the "greeters" should probably be the taxi dancers Name badges for staff ================= 'Nuff said. Run classes concurrently =================== The best classes I know run the beginners / improvers / intermediates concurrently -- you get twice as much teaching for your money. And there's less pressure to jump levels. Bar and drinks machine ================= Always great if there's a soft drinks vending machine about -- especially if you miss last orders. Teachers that dance with beginners =========================== It's great if the teacher makes a point of getting the beginners to dance their first dance with the other dancers AND dances with a beginner themselves.

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