What is Aussie Style?

[David Bailey]

OK, it's probably a silly question, but I've done a search and I can't find any details of what this actually is. I know Simon Borland's done a few workshops on it, but I don't know if he's defined it? And whether his definition is accepted?

From reading posts from people such as Nessa and Adam, it seems there's a definite difference in MJ dance styles and cultures in Oz (and NZ) to the culture in the UK.

From these, I would assume that Aussie style / culture differs from UK style (whatever that is) in that it has:
- More emphasis on energetic moves (aerials, drops, etc.)
- Lots of sequences
- Typically younger crowd
- Competitive environment (boo)

But these are basically wild guesses and assumptions - does anyone have any facts or a link to a definition of "Aussie style"?

[Chicklet]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

does anyone have any facts or a link to a definition of "Aussie style"?

DJ asking for FACTS what is the world coming to?

Not a fact, but here's an impression formed from seeing routines exhibited by some of the proponents of Aussie style - technically highly proficient moves danced right bang slap in the middle of the beat of the music, with less er, light and shade than might be seen or do I mean "felt" in routines put together by local people of a similar "standard". There, that'll 'elp!

[Missy D]

Is it about being big down under?

[cerocmetro]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

OK, it's probably a silly question, but I've done a search and I can't find any details of what this actually is. I know Simon Borland's done a few workshops on it, but I don't know if he's defined it? And whether his definition is accepted?

From reading posts from people such as Nessa and Adam, it seems there's a definite difference in MJ dance styles and cultures in Oz (and NZ) to the culture in the UK.

From these, I would assume that Aussie style / culture differs from UK style (whatever that is) in that it has:
- More emphasis on energetic moves (aerials, drops, etc.)
- Lots of sequences
- Typically younger crowd
- Competitive environment (boo)


But these are basically wild guesses and assumptions - does anyone have any facts or a link to a definition of "Aussie style"?

Good question

Firstly Oz is a huge country, and I mean HUOOOGE. At the Champs in Sydney, i met and danced with people from many parts of OZ and the styles are pretty varied over there. We tend to be more exposed in the UK to the "Sydney" style.

Ok so staying with the Sydney style. Precise is an understatement. I was watching some of the earlier rounds at the champs, the beginners and intermediates. My jaw dropped when I saw the moves the intermediates were doing, our advanced dancers would struggle with many of them.

However I want to be as diplomatic as possible. I saw move followed by move followed by move. The "music Interpretation" was word related, ie they would try and mimic the words of the songs, not the feelings envoked by the songs. This is of course a generalisation and there were a few brilliant natural dancers. I am going to stick my neck out here though and suggest that some of the natural dancers looked as though they were conforming to a more rigid structure and complying with the perception of what Ceroc is in Sydney, which is big moves done for effect and fitted in as often as your muscles permitted. Musicality is pushed into second place to making sure you got the big ones in.

The dancing however is incredibly showy and that is why it does so well at competitions especially in the UK. As an example, Ceroc were and are able to hire a theatre in Sydney and sell tickets to the public to watch showcase after showcase and Team routine after Team routine.

One thing that hits you immediatly in Sydney and Auckland are the Ballroom style facial expressions they all have. The big fixed grins that very rarley again have anything to do with the passion that is going on in the music.


OK I am not knocking their style. If that is what Ceroc is there then they are very good at it, very good indeed. In the UK, maybe because it has been around longer, maybe because here we have much more exposure to exogenous factors Ceroc evolves faster and we have gone closer to saying I cant be bothered to learn big moves that I have to work out for and practice 10 hours a day to a lazier more laid back approach. I think the music is also a very strong factor here.

The Ozzies have had Trampy and a few other Local dancers bring new music styles into OZ. At the moment, they are not quite sure what they should be doing with them and where the big moves fit in but they will and they will do it brilliantly I am sure.

Also with people like Clayton and Janine returning to OZ and Vicktor threatening to shift there, it will not take to long for them to dramaticaly influence the styles.

OK here's the important bit though, HOW TO SPOT AN OZZIE COUPLE ON THE DANCE FLOOR FROM 100 PACES"

1) They will both extend their arms fully when turning out fro each other.
2) They will never into each others eyes.
3) They will never look at you watching they will look through you.
4) They will fumble around terribly if the ceiling is low or the girl will be head butting the ceiling tiles.
5) They guy will be wearing a T-Shirt with no arms. It may be a sparkley T-Shirt
6) The Guy will have muscles that will allow him to wear a sparkly T-Shirt with no arms as he knows no one would be stupid enough to argue with him.
7) The girl when spun around the guys neck at least 3 times and then accelerated to the floor stopping just millimeters away from the floor before be whisked through the guys legs and back up over his head will have a fixed smile the whole time and never look as though she is going to be sick or pass out
8) They will both be highly suntanned, probably fake tan
9)They will perform many many many set pieces that involve the girl not wearing out the soles of her dance shoes
10) and perhaps a dead give away, the guy will be wearing a peculiar yellow rubber hat neatly tied under his chin.

Adam

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by cerocmetro

Firstly Oz is a huge country, and I mean HUOOOGE. At the Champs in Sydney, i met and danced with people from many parts of OZ and the styles are pretty varied over there. We tend to be more exposed in the UK to the "Sydney" style.

Yes, I know - and I realise it may be silly to define a style for an entire country, let alone two. And I'd be extremely pushed to define "UK style", hell I couldn't even tell you what "Finchley style" is for that matter

Originally Posted by cerocmetro

{ snip massive and informative answer }

That's great, pretty much what I'd thought. In short: flashy, visual, energetic, with lots and lots and lots and lots of precise moves.

Originally Posted by cerocmetro

HOW TO SPOT AN OZZIE COUPLE ON THE DANCE FLOOR FROM 100 PACES"

Nice one

Also, can I just say, that's the most comprehensive and coherent post I've ever seen posted at such an ungodly hour in the morning

[KatieR]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

That's great, pretty much what I'd thought. In short: flashy, visual, energetic, with lots and lots and lots and lots of precise moves.

I think pretty much most of what has been said on this thread is true (except for the whole fake suntan thing... hey we cant help it if we actually get sun there!! )

What I am hoping, given that I will be going back to Adelaide and not Sydney where they aren't really influenced that much by what is happening anywhere else, that when I go back in January, I can introduce some of what I have learnt here, ie musical interpretation and finding the breaks and using them. I myself cant stand it when a guy dances right through a wonderful break. They will often find themselves getting dirty looks from myself...

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

That's great, pretty much what I'd thought. In short: flashy, visual, energetic, with lots and lots and lots and lots of precise moves.

Oh no. Apart from the precision, which is good in any dance, it sounds like everything I dislike about some MJ dancing

[KatieR]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Oh no. Apart from the precision, which is good in any dance, it sounds like everything I dislike about some MJ dancing

Is that why you never dance with me?

[TiggsTours]

OK, I don't like Aussie Ceroc, so I'm a little biased:

1. More emphasis on "flash" moves, like drops, dips & lifts
2. Teaching beginners such "flash" moves, regardless of either party's personal safety.
3. Winning competitions, with "Miss World grins"
4. Very little attention to musicality, and paying attention to your partner

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Oh no. Apart from the precision, which is good in any dance, it sounds like everything I dislike about some MJ dancing

Well, it's not to my tastes either - but that's probably because I'm old with creaking joints, etc. 20 years ago, I'd probably have loved that sort of style...

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by KatieR

Is that why you never dance with me?

I am hurt

Unless you start throwing yourself over my head I would class you as a dancer rather than an acrobat

[KatieR]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

OK, I don't like Aussie Ceroc, so I'm a little biased:

1. More emphasis on "flash" moves, like drops, dips & lifts
2. Teaching beginners such "flash" moves, regardless of either party's personal safety.
3. Winning competitions, with "Miss World grins"
4. Very little attention to musicality, and paying attention to your partner

Might I just ask a question.... no harm or offense intended, Im just curious to know, but have you been to Australia and been to the classes (and not just certain venues in Sydney where sometimes things arent as standard as they perhaps should be)?

Im mainly interested from the perspective that people think that the teachings are dangerous and there is little attention to musicality etc... Yes, there are a few hotshots (teacher or no) but you get them everywhere... (I probably came across more of them here).. what evidence do they have to support these claims? other than just seeing our top level dancers?

The difficulty rating is definately higher, but the beginner classes I found were always acceptable, never boring, the teachers (YAY to Adrian and Aisha) always wary of who was in the class, always able to take the time to go through things and I always felt safe.

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Well, it's not to my tastes either - but that's probably because I'm old with creaking joints, etc. 20 years ago, I'd probably have loved that sort of style...

I wouldnt consider myself THAT old and I still hate it. Again though its all personal taste.
I generally dont like aerials although I have to qualify that by saying I dont like badly worked aerials. Seeing the pros doing it is great as they have smooth entry and exit points and it just seems to, well, flow!

With all due respect to most that do them in MJ it doesnt flow
Cant say I could do much better though

[TiggsTours]

Originally Posted by KatieR

Might I just ask a question.... no harm or offense intended, Im just curious to know, but have you been to Australia and been to the classes (and not just certain venues in Sydney where sometimes things arent as standard as they perhaps should be)?

Im mainly interested from the perspective that people think that the teachings are dangerous and there is little attention to musicality etc... Yes, there are a few hotshots (teacher or no) but you get them everywhere... (I probably came across more of them here).. what evidence do they have to support these claims? other than just seeing our top level dancers?

The difficulty rating is definately higher, but the beginner classes I found were always acceptable, never boring, the teachers (YAY to Adrian and Aisha) always wary of who was in the class, always able to take the time to go through things and I always felt safe.

Urm, yes, I have. I spent 3 months in Australia last year, danced in Brisbane & Sydney, and attended the champs, where I danced with people from all over Australia.

Also going on the people who have come to the UK from Australia, beginners who have learnt drops in beginners classes, really badly, and advanced dancers who looked like Barbie and Ken when they first arrived, and after a few years over here, now look fantastic! I have to say that the combination of Aussie drops & lifts, with the UK sense of fun and musicality does make a fabulous look.

[KatieR]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

Urm, yes, I have. I spent 3 months in Australia last year, danced in Brisbane & Sydney, and attended the champs, where I danced with people from all over Australia.

Also going on the people who have come to the UK from Australia, beginners who have learnt drops in beginners classes, really badly, and advanced dancers who looked like Barbie and Ken when they first arrived, and after a few years over here, now look fantastic! I have to say that the combination of Aussie drops & lifts, with the UK sense of fun and musicality does make a fabulous look.

Thanks, I appreciate that.. I totally agree with what you said about the combination of the two. Im always the first to admit that maybe the Aussies do go over the top a bit which is why when I go back to Adelaide to a relatively un-influenced area and perhaps introduce some of the UK style. I will probably head over to Sydney and Melbourne as well as I want to get as wide an influence as possible rather than just one style all of the time.

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by KatieR

Might I just ask a question.... no harm or offense intended, Im just curious to know, but have you been to Australia and been to the classes (and not just certain venues in Sydney where sometimes things arent as standard as they perhaps should be)?

OK, I've only danced in Sydney, but that isn't going to stop me putting an oar in...

Im mainly interested from the perspective that people think that the teachings are dangerous and there is little attention to musicality etc...

Dangerous teaching? Don't know I'd go that far, but there's far more expectation that people will be happy with doing drops and have correct basic technique. And everyone I danced with did have good technique, so there wasn't a problem. But I'm not clear how it works in Sydney when you do get someone who has problems (either physical or technical) with drops; I don't remember much talk of alternative moves etc.

In general dancing / freestyle, people were prepared to do drops/aerials much closer to people than I am. I don't know how often collisions occur, but with those margins, I'd be amazed if they never happen.

I didn't see much musicality taught, but then I think I've seen it taught about twice in 6 years of doing Ceroc classes in the UK, so let's not do the pot/kettle thing here. I actually thought a lot of dancers showed a lot of musicality in Sydney - I particularly remember Gary's dancing with his partner.

Yes, there are a few hotshots (teacher or no) but you get them everywhere... (I probably came across more of them here).. what evidence do they have to support these claims? other than just seeing our top level dancers?

It's rarely the "top" dancers who cause problems. It's more the person (usually male) who comes over, can do 20 aerials (usually with strength rather than technique) and maybe 20 normal dance moves (usually off beat and too fast for the music), and then starts complaining publicly about the women over here not knowing how to do drops and aerials... Sadly, such specimens are not uncommon.

Finally, to segue with another thread, from the DVDs I've seen, it seems the competition style in Oz is a caricature of the differences between our styles. The only way I can explain what I saw is that there's a genuine belief that the couple with the "most content" wins. So everyone is just cramming moves into their two minutes of dancing, doing moves at double speed just so they can fit more moves in, doing mini-routines so they don't waste a beat in between their flash moves, etc... And you can bet no-one wants to miss out on doing an aerial just because it doesn't fit the music!

I'm not sure competitions are evil, but they can certainly push the dance form in evil directions...

[TiggsTours]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

I didn't see much musicality taught, but then I think I've seen it taught about twice in 6 years of doing Ceroc classes in the UK, so let's not do the pot/kettle thing here.

You're right, I apologise, I've not seen it taught at Ceroc here, although I have seen it taught in plenty of dance weekenders, not run by Ceroc, and I have seen many latin/blues/swing style masterclasses taught at Ceroc, all of which improve musicality. I also see an awful lot more of it on the dance floor over here, including at Ceroc, I hardly saw any down under, it was all about which fantastic move can be put in where, regardless as to whether or not it fitted the style of the music, the partners ability, or the number of people on the floor, and as for using the breaks, and the changes in tempo in the music? Don't think I saw any of that at all.

[KatieR]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

In general dancing / freestyle, people were prepared to do drops/aerials much closer to people than I am. I don't know how often collisions occur, but with those margins, I'd be amazed if they never happen.

I think it could be that in Australia there is a rule that states He/she that does the dropping buys he/she that got dropped a bottle of alcohol. This can often reduce the number of collisions/drops, especially if you are on a budget. Maybe this should be introduced here?

Originally Posted by David Franklin

I didn't see much musicality taught, but then I think I've seen it taught about twice in 6 years of doing Ceroc classes in the UK, so let's not do the pot/kettle thing here.

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Finally, to segue with another thread, from the DVDs I've seen, it seems the competition style in Oz is a caricature of the differences between our styles. The only way I can explain what I saw is that there's a genuine belief that the couple with the "most content" wins. So everyone is just cramming moves into their two minutes of dancing, doing moves at double speed just so they can fit more moves in, doing mini-routines so they don't waste a beat in between their flash moves, etc... And you can bet no-one wants to miss out on doing an aerial just because it doesn't fit the music!

it is unfortunate that competitions and the like do give the majority of Australian 'Ceroc' dancers (I use the term loosely given the many different variations that now influence the dance) a reputation.

I would define myself as an Australian dancer, yes I do like well executed drops and the odd flashy move BUT only if incorporated within the music I am dancing to and I also like to interpret the music (I thank J**** for giving me that). I like to think I am a combination of the two...