6 most useful intermediate moves?

[Achelous]

I started going to Ceroc with my partner at the beginning of January - she has a dance background but I don't - and after about 10 weeks I can just about do all the beginners' moves and string a basic 10 move freestyle routine together without falling over. It took a lot longer than the Ceroc publicity suggests although I sort of expected that - the big problem for me is that I'm still not on the beat a lot of the time.

My partner moved onto the intermediate class a month ago but I don't want to do that yet - at least not until I've got over the problem of dancing on the beat.

Now I can dance 3 or 4 times a night with my partner which is good but I'd like to be able to add a couple of the easier and more useful intermediate moves to my basic routine (I've got the 2 Ceroc intermediate DVD's so we can practice at home - 48 moves there) to try and make sure that it isn't too boring for her to dance with me

Can anyone recommend 4 or 5 or 6 of the most useful intermediate moves for a beginner to learn first?

[ducasi]

Welcome to the forum!

Here's a few simple intermediate moves you might like to have a go at, and might be useful to help ease you into intermediate...

• Sway
• Accordion
• Wurlitzer
• Pretzel
• Neckbreak

I expect AfterFive will have descriptions of these moves, and it's a great resource.

Good luck!

[LMC]

Any good follower (and some of the ones who could do better sometimes, like me!) will tell you that it's not about the moves.

I can understand your concern about knowing limited moves (I get really bored with my own leading frequently and I don't dance lead that much in freestyle!) - but remember: you might be repeating the same 10, 20 or so ALL night, but every follower is dancing with guys who are repeating a different 20 - so don't fret too much about being boring. Sometimes it's lovely to dance with someone who isn't trying loads of different hellishly complex moves! If I have a fabulous dance, I come off that floor feeling like a million dollars, but couldn't tell you what the moves were. To reinforce further, the guy who won a recent DWAS competition at Cheshunt is someone I dance with regularly - and he really only does beginners and a couple of intermediate moves - but very very very nicely.

for admitting that you have problems dancing on beat - some intermediate people who have been dancing for years still can't, but are in denial My advice would be to focus on improving your style and technique - make sure you can do the moves you do know really smoothly and on beat, and you'll never be short of willing partners. If you feel like you're off beat, then drop back to a 'simple' move like an armjive or possibly an octopus and do that move until you're back on time again - you can do more than 2 or 3 repetitions if that helps you - 4 or 5 should be sufficient before you go to your next move.

Adapting beginner's moves can add a bit of variety too - for example, if you lead a basket, then if you have space, once you've got the follower by your side, don't turn her out straight away, do a little walk for 2 or 3 steps. Same if you do a shoulder drop - don't offer your LH straight away, keep the follower behind you and walk 2 or 3 before finishing the move. Both those things are also helpful for picking up the beat again if you feel like you're losing it.

It always takes a bit longer for leads - they have more to think about. Even though I knew all the beginners' moves inside out as a follower, when I started to lead, I frequently "crashed" in freestyle and led 3 yo yos in a row before my blank mind cleared enough to think of something else! You'll "catch up" with your partner. Just enjoy the dancing

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by LMC

Any good follower ... will tell you that it's not about the moves.

Yeah, and guys like me still don't fully believe it, and anyway, it's for us that we want more moves, not you.



The moves I listed were a good choice to make a beginner feel more advanced and give them some more variety, plus helping them get into more difficult intermediate moves. (IMHO, of course.)

Originally Posted by LMC

Adapting beginner's moves can add a bit of variety too - for example, if you lead a basket, then if you have space, once you've got the follower by your side, don't turn her out straight away, do a little walk for 2 or 3 steps.

I gotta say... I love basket walks...

(Some people would change that smiley for a )

[LMC]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Yeah, and guys like me still don't fully believe it, and anyway, it's for us that we want more moves, not you.

'course it is - I get bored with my repertoire after one dance, which is why I've started doing intermediate classes as lead

The moves I listed were a good choice to make a beginner feel more advanced and give them some more variety, plus helping them get into more difficult intermediate moves. (IMHO, of course.)

I agree - a good selection, to which I would add a manhattan or other first move walking type variation.

However, from a follower's POV, I would far rather dance with someone who only does 4 moves, but does them on time, than someone who never repeats the same move during our dance but is off beat. Because as a follower, if the lead is not dancing on time, there is very little you can do about it (even slowing down your spins to 'knock' them back on beat only has a limited effect) - and it's <expletive deleted> frustrating!

So by all means learn more moves Achelous, but don't just focus on more moves

I gotta say... I love basket walks...

Well, I didn't like to say anything

(Some people would change that smiley for a )

Nah, you lead 'em beautifully

[Frankie_4711]

Originally Posted by LMC

However, from a follower's POV, I would far rather dance with someone who only does 4 moves, but does them on time, than someone who never repeats the same move during our dance but is off beat. Because as a follower, if the lead is not dancing on time, there is very little you can do about it (even slowing down your spins to 'knock' them back on beat only has a limited effect) - and it's <expletive deleted> frustrating!

Totally agree LMC! I met a guy a couple of weeks ago who only does beginner and a few simple intermediate moves, but is just so fantastic at doing them it is a real JOY to dance with him. Whereas there's a guy I dance with quite a bit (unfortunately!) who is always 'surprising' me with a new move, or variation, but he just can't do them very well, and I would much rather be dancing with the other one!!

And great choice of moves Ducasi! Simple but effective.

[Caro]

Indeed to what LMC and others says, the quantity of moves doesn't really matter, it is more important to focus on how you do them.
But leading myself sometimes I understand what you mean.

So here are a few simple intermediates moves that I like, both as a follower and as a leader:
- any walk from any place (like a sway or a basket)
- neck breck and variations
- I like to lead that move when you turn the lady right hand to rh, and then take her straight into a sway (instead of steeping back), catch her left hand (with your left), walk together clockwise, then take the lady out of the sway by raising your left hand and crossing over your right, (at this point you are face to face, holding by both hands and your arms are crossed), bringing both lady's hands from one side to another for a couple of beats and exiting the moves by spinning her (sending away both her hands from left to right and letting her spin). Sorry for the lenghty description, I don't know the name of the move! hope you see what I mean!
- there are plenty of variations to the first move; like exiting the lady with an anticlockwise spin (or 2 or 3...), stopping the lady as she exits by placing your right hand on her left hip and spinning her anticlockwise; or simply exiting the move with 2 clockwise spins
- that move where you start RH to RH, signal by putting your LH behind your back in a half nelson position, take to the lady side to side (on your right side that is), then lady pivots and catch your left hand with her left as your extend your right hand, let go of the right hand and click your fingers to the right, next beat click your fingers to the left, (lady does the same in your back and crosses her right arm over the left when you 'click' left), repeat for a couple of beats, and then exit by pivoting anticlockwise and catching both her hand and lead her in a double handed spin.
- when following I like combs... you can put them pretty much everywhere, leading with any hand

basically I don't really like complicated moves, I think some variations to the beginners moves are really nice.

For your 'dancing on the beat' problem, I would suggest:
- everytime you hear music (like in your car), practice by doing something on the beat (click your fingers, little tap with a foot, walk on the beat (well if you can walk that is, not in your car obviously!) etc) for the duration of the song... very soon it'll become like a second nature
- when you lose the beat while dancing, do a simple move until you get it back, like a walk, an armjive or an 'in and out'
- you might ask your partner to help you: she could follow you but only on the beat, if that makes any sense? By that I mean that I can sometimes correct a little bit a leader who is unsure of the beat (and whose lead is not too strong) by doing the moves, but slightly anticipating or waiting to do the move right on the beat instead of exactly when he leads me to.

hope this helps good luck with your dancing

[philsmove]

As everyone has said, learning to staying on the beat is more important than learning new moves

On Sunday morning. Close the curtains, put a track with a strong beat and, on your own, dance round the kitchen , in time with the music

You are not allowed down the pub until you can hold the beat

Then let your partner choose which move you are going to learn next

[Ghost]

Ok from the Intermediate dvd 1
Left handed comb, Sway, and Slo Hallelujah.

From the Intermediate dvd 2
First Move Mambo, Accordian

For the 6th Move,

Ghost Hallelujah (not an official move, but one I've found very useful) - Basically the same as the Slo Hallelujah, but starting with from a normal 2H grip rather than hands crossed over. Pretty much lets you at any time grab the lady's other hand and do a nice slow move. It lets you catch your breath, is really good for helping the lady get her balance back if she's tripped etc, takes up no space if there's suddenly no room to lead anything and can be done at any speed to let you catch the beat again if you lose it.

Oh and trust LMC on the moves thing

Take care,
Christopher

[MartinHarper]

First, I'd pick a couple of moves such as "First Move Basic", "First Move Penguin Walks", "Eskimo", and similar. The beginner moves don't give you lots of options when you're real short of space, so picking up a couple of intermediate moves for this situation is a good thing. Also, they give thinking time, which is great.

Then you'll want a couple of moves where the girl can "play" a bit. So something like the slow man spin, slow step across, lazy first move, and similar moves. Again, more thinking time, and it helps your partner make you look good.

Later on, you might want to pick up a single dip/lean thing, and a single hellishly complicated "knotwork" move, so you have these available for the very rare occasion that you'll want them. However, they're probably things for later.

[Alice]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Then you'll want a couple of moves where the girl can "play" a bit. So something like the slow man spin, slow step across, lazy first move, and similar moves. Again, more thinking time, and it helps your partner make you look good.

Later on, you might want to pick up a single dip/lean thing, and a single hellishly complicated "knotwork" move, so you have these available for the very rare occasion that you'll want them. However, they're probably things for later.

Particular if your partner is more advanced, one easy way to make things more "interesting" for her is to allow her to play (plus every girl will "play" differently so it creates more variety for you too!).
Then I'd concentrate on styling for the moves you know, and add in a couple of intermediate moves gradually. The ones that have been suggested would be a good way to go- useful basics, and you can add tonnes of variations on later

And get the counting right. Well done for admitting you have problems there- not many do. ONe way to practice finding the beat is to count along to music whenever you have the radio on. Start by counting along, then maybe see if you can find the beginning of a phrase (ie the first count in a group of 4 or 8).

Also get together a couple of good counting moves to use during freestyle if you feel yourself getting off the beat- manhattans are great for this. Don't be afraid to revert back to just stepping in beat, or asking the girl to put you right or start you off- it probably won't take long to find it again, and the girl will thank you for it, trust me

Good luck!!

[Claire S]

Originally Posted by ducasi

I gotta say... I love basket walks...

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Claire S

Told you!

[Achelous]

Thanks for that everyone!

[Gadget]

Personally, I wouldn't include the neck-break: just don't like the signal, the move or the garotting feel to it.

I think that if you know the basic moves, then there are very few "intermediate" moves that are not based on one of these. I think the Sway, the Left handed comb and Pretzel have stuff in them that is good to exploit.

I would recommend picking a basic move, then seeing how you can get to it from every other move you know. Most of my repertoir just now seems to be based arround the First move - there are still a few variations I have to try out, but it seems to work well for me

The timing thing - very hard to get right. Almost anything (physical) you do to mark time untill it 'clicks' will have to be un-learned at a later date. You could try counting in eights under your breath? If you are aware that you are out of time, what are the tell-tail signs? Perhaps by tackling the symptoms, the problem may be reduced?

{PS I would also recommend the moves, moves, moves link in my syg - making the most from the moves you already know.}

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by Gadget

the neck-break ... don't like the signal... or the garotting feel to it.

If that's what it feels like then you're doing it wrong.

It needs a lead, not a signal, and it needn't feel any less smooth than any other move.

[BeeBee]

Originally Posted by ducasi

I gotta say... I love basket walks... )

[ducasi]

Personally, I wouldn't include the neck-break: just don't like the signal, the move or the garotting feel to it.

I agree, but maybe there's some folks who do like it.

When I do use it, I never use the signal, and I prefer the "open" version, which apparently has a different signal...

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by BeeBee

And there's the second one... I knew you wouldn't let me down.