Does the music style dictate the dance style?

[DavidB]

Some dance styles are very intricately linked to the style of the music, eg Argentine Tango

Other dance styles are linked to features of the music eg Lindy is not linked to 'Swing music', but rather music that swings. This obviously includes swing music, but also some blues and even some hip-hop.

Modern Jive is only linked to one feature in the music - the downbeat. Any music style that has a regular downbeat can be jived to. This means you *can* jive to a waltz, if you really wanted to. However it makes quite a few modern RnB tracks very difficult, as many beats are delayed or missed. It is usually the upbeats that are kept constant in RnB, not the downbeats.

What you do between the downbeats in Modern Jive is up to you and your partner. The fact that other styles specify what you should do is irrelevant. They don't own the copyright on footwork. If you do something from another style, but still keep to the main downbeat structure of Modern Jive, then you are still doing Modern Jive.

Of course the style of the song isn't everything. The tempo is a big consideration. Modern Jive is based on walking, and there is a limit to how fast you can walk. Start running and you immediately hit the limit of how fast a lady can follow, and how much momentum she can control. In Lindy and East Coast Swing there is a 'pause' between each move that allows the momentum to be controlled, and the lady to follow the lead without losing connection/dislocating her shoulder.

Dancing to slow music is another matter altogether. People can walk very slowly. The difficult thing is making it feel good, and that takes practice. A couple of years ago, Fire (112 bpm) would be the slowest track you might hear. But now 100bpm is not uncommon at some venues.

So no, you can't do Modern Jive to everything. But the limitations are based on practical considerations, and your ability as a dancer, and not on someone else's opinion. (If everyone had to worry about what I thought, then there would only be 6 couples in the world allowed to do Lindy. And no-one allowed to do Ballroom Jive.)

I enjoy dancing to music I like. As long as I'm enjoying it, and my partner is enjoying it, I don't care what anyone else thinks. If you don't like dancing a particular style to a particular track, then no-one is forcing you. The only consideration you need to make to someone else is floorcraft. You don't need to worry about what they think is right or wrong. What looks better is immaterial outside a competition or a show. Yes a good tango couple might look better dancing to a tango track than a jive couple. But that jive couple (hopefully) feel better dancing to it than sitting down.


Leave the pigeon-holes for the pigeons.

[robd]

Good post David. I have no musical theory background or knowledge, can you give me a simpletons guide to what you mean by upbeat and downbeat?

Robert

[Ghost]

Some thoughts

Apologies to non-registered users, but I don't think you can access it (Course you could always join )

Be Well,
Christopher

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by robd

I have no musical theory background or knowledge, can you give me a simpletons guide to what you mean by upbeat and downbeat?

Downbeats are 1,3,5,7
Upbeats are 2,4,6,8

(In waltz, the 1 is the downbeat, the 2 and 3 are upbeats)

[Donna]

Originally Posted by DavidB

Downbeats are 1,3,5,7
Upbeats are 2,4,6,8

(In waltz, the 1 is the downbeat, the 2 and 3 are upbeats)

I wouldn't like to try jiving to a waltz. hmmm

[TiggsTours]

Originally Posted by DavidB

I enjoy dancing to music I like. As long as I'm enjoying it, and my partner is enjoying it, I don't care what anyone else thinks. If you don't like dancing a particular style to a particular track, then no-one is forcing you. The only consideration you need to make to someone else is floorcraft. You don't need to worry about what they think is right or wrong. What looks better is immaterial outside a competition or a show. Yes a good tango couple might look better dancing to a tango track than a jive couple. But that jive couple (hopefully) feel better dancing to it than sitting down.

Excellent post, David.

When you dance another style, and a piece of music that fits that style comes on, you can't help but think "I wish I could find a partner to swing/tango/WCS/salsa etc. to this with!", because that's what the music is telling you to do, that's what you're feeling. But that doesn't mean you can't do anything else to it, especially MJ, which you can do to (almost) anything! I'd much rather dance MJ to a fabulous swing track than just sit at the side and wish I was dancing!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Donna

I wouldn't like to try jiving to a waltz. hmmm

Ist move eskimo - I called it the 1st move waltz for ages - even danced it with a lady during the break at a workshop with the two of use humming the Blue Danube

Be Well,
Christopher

[MartinHarper]

Looking at the way "Aussie Ceroc" is taught, with "intermediate footwork" that steps right on downbeats and left on upbeats, would you say that this form of Ceroc is linked to both upbeats and downbeats?

[Gadget]

Not all my threads...
Should you dance to the style of music?
Do you need a beat/base-line to dance?
Poll: Chicken and Egg: dance or music
Does music define the dance?
What makes music challenging to dance to?
Poll: Do you dance to the beat or the music?

Originally Posted by DavidB

So no, you can't do Modern Jive to everything. But the limitations are based on practical considerations, and your ability as a dancer, and not on someone else's opinion.

If a track is within the "too fast" range, can't you simply* half the speed you're basing your dancing at and use a few 'double time' moves to keep it looking more connected to the music?
Same with "too slow"; it should be possable to base your dancing on double time and use lots of 'sweeps' and drawn out moves to keep conneted?

If you follow this priciple, then there would be very, very few tracks that you literally couldn't dance Modern Jive to.

{*OK, so it may not be that simple }

[spindr]

Originally Posted by DavidB

Downbeats are 1,3,5,7
Upbeats are 2,4,6,8

(In waltz, the 1 is the downbeat, the 2 and 3 are upbeats)

What happens when the strong beat isn't on 1 it's on 2 -- d'you still call 1 the downbeat then (if so what d'you call 2) -- or is 2 the downbeat?

Interestingly, at FL on the w/end tried to dance to a record with a strong beat on 2 -- vaguely hip/hop/ vague reggae TwK special.

Tried to WCS it, but also wanted to "break on 2". Unfortunately, I think my poor WCS skills and unconventional approach flummoxed by usually 110% efficient partner. Most of the other proficient westies were dancing happily, but I assume breaking on 1.

So, can / should you break on 2 in WCS if there is a strong beat on 2 and a weak beat on 1??

SpinDr.

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by spindr

What happens when the strong beat isn't on 1 it's on 2 -- d'you still call 1 the downbeat then (if so what d'you call 2) -- or is 2 the downbeat?

I would always call the 1 the downbeat, even if the 2 were stronger.

However my formal musical training ended with the recorder when I was 11.

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by Gadget

If a track is within the "too fast" range, can't you simply* half the speed you're basing your dancing at and use a few 'double time' moves to keep it looking more connected to the music?
Same with "too slow"; it should be possable to base your dancing on double time and use lots of 'sweeps' and drawn out moves to keep conneted?

Theoretically yes. But realistically no.

Take 'Emotion' by Destiny's Child as an example. Off the top of my head it is about 82 bpm. You could dance to it as 164 bpm, but you would then be dancing like a maniac to a slow romantic song.

Also if you had a drum and bass track at 180 bpm, do you gain anything by halving it to 90?

PS is it drum and bass or drum and base?

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by DavidB

PS is it drum and bass or drum and base?

It's drum and bass.

So, do you agree with the statement that it's the timing that makes the dance? If Tango dancers adopted the same timing as MJ dancers, are they dancing MJ? If MJ dancers adopted the same timing as WCS dancers, are they West Coast Swinging?

[Baruch]

Originally Posted by DavidB

PS is it drum and bass or drum and base?

***PEDANTS' SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT***

It's drum and bass. Unless, of course, the "base" refers to what the drum is standing on.

***END OF PEDANTS' SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT***

[Gadget]

so why is "Bass" pronounced "Base" then?

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by ducasi

So, do you agree with the statement that it's the timing that makes the dance?

Timing is one of the things that defines the dance. Others include hold (open or closed), shape (slotted / not-slotted / progressive) and action (walking / running / stationary)

[Baruch]

Originally Posted by Gadget

so why is "Bass" pronounced "Base" then?

Now that I don't know.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Gadget

so why is "Bass" pronounced "Base" then?

According to allwords.com:

bass
Etymology: 15c as bas (see etymology of base2): the Italian form basso later influenced the spelling in musical contexts.

[marty_baby]

Originally Posted by DavidB

I enjoy dancing to music I like. As long as I'm enjoying it, and my partner is enjoying it, I don't care what anyone else thinks. If you don't like dancing a particular style to a particular track, then no-one is forcing you. The only consideration you need to make to someone else is floorcraft. You don't need to worry about what they think is right or wrong. What looks better is immaterial outside a competition or a show. Yes a good tango couple might look better dancing to a tango track than a jive couple. But that jive couple (hopefully) feel better dancing to it than sitting down.

Bravo David!

Its great to hear top flight dancers say such things! ...outside competitions, dance anyway you like ...as long as you both enjoy it and don't bang into other