What Beginners should learn

[Gus]

Disclaimer MODE ON The following thread is NOT: aimed at 'having a go' at the Ceroc teaching model; promoting On8; dissing teaching standards or anyway haveing a go at individuals, organsiations or accepted dance practices. Disclaimer MODE OFF

Ignoring all the social aspects of Modern Jive, if we take it as a dance form, what are we trying to actually teach beginners ... so that they can dance. In On8 there was an article and counter-point about the limitations of the current teaching model, but I'm not sure that there was enough focus on what SHOULD be taught.

Think back to dance basics .... what should be taught? My view is that the following covers some (far from all) of what a beginners needs to know.

1. Ettiqutte
2. Lead and follow
3. Compression and tension
4. Balance, poise and minimal footwork
5. Basic moves that move the couple smoothly
6. Basic musical interpretation

Any more ideas?

NB. Coming up with the concepts is the easy bit. Finding teaching models to communicate them is another matter.

[Piglet]

What do you mean by etiquette?

If floorcraft is part of that - then that's the only thing I can think of so far - safety of yourself, your partner and others around you.



EDIT: Reading body language signals would be helpful for a couple of guys up here (and I'm sure there are women who possibly need this skill too) - I can think of at least one that looks at the floor and not his partner. If he did look at his partner he would maybe become more aware that she isn't enjoying the dance! If your partner doesn't smile at any point then you maybe need to question why this is the case.

[Baruch]

Originally Posted by Piglet

What do you mean by etiquette?

There's a good explanation of dance etiquette here.

(Not that you need it, of course.)

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Gus

Any more ideas?

How to relax
How to cover mistakes (just keep going )

Be Well,
Christopher

[bigdjiver]

I made my own list after glancing through the first pot.

1) Dance lessons are fun
2) dancing is fun
3) Dancing better is more fun.

from 1) it follows :- do not hurt anybody, physically or mentally.

I think that most other aspects of teaching should follow on from these principles.

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by Gus

Think back to dance basics .... what should be taught? My view is that the following covers some (far from all) of what a beginners needs to know.

1. Ettiqutte
2. Lead and follow
3. Compression and tension
4. Balance, poise and minimal footwork
5. Basic moves that move the couple smoothly
6. Basic musical interpretation

If you are talking about a beginners class, then the only thing that should be taught is 2 or 3 moves. No technique, No style. No musicality.

A consolidation class should only cover two extra things - "Follow the Hand", and the timing of the dance. And maybe some pointers on spinning for the ladies.

Everything else can be done later. (Whether it is or not is a different question)

[Gus]

Originally Posted by DavidB

If you are talking about a beginners class, then the only thing that should be taught is 2 or 3 moves. No technique, No style. No musicality.

Ahhhh ... but I'm not referring to the standard class itself. I'm asking a general question, ignoring the difficulties of teaching it. Responding to feedback a few females made about beginners at our Chester club. They are no worse than anywhere else, but after 6 to 8 weeks maybe there are skills that somehow as teachers we should have imparted?

I would love to see ALL beginners somehow motivated to do a beginners workshop, because I believe we can't teach a quarter of what we should from the stage. Does that change your answer?

[frodo]

Originally Posted by Piglet

What do you mean by etiquette?

If floorcraft is part of that - then that's the only thing I can think of so far - safety of yourself, your partner and others around you.

EDIT: Reading body language signals would be helpful for a couple of guys up here (and I'm sure there are women who possibly need this skill too) - I can think of at least one that looks at the floor and not his partner. If he did look at his partner he would maybe become more aware that she isn't enjoying the dance! If your partner doesn't smile at any point then you maybe need to question why this is the case.

I agree some safety parts of etiquette only, may be important.

For that reason, is there really a problem with a beginner lead looking at the floor - at least he isn't stepping on his partners feet.

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by DavidB

If you are talking about a beginners class, then the only thing that should be taught is 2 or 3 moves. No technique, No style. No musicality.

A consolidation class should only cover two extra things - "Follow the Hand", and the timing of the dance. And maybe some pointers on spinning for the ladies.

Everything else can be done later. (Whether it is or not is a different question)

I just thought - how would I feel if learning ballroom dancing (someday, someday) and the teacher was continually adjusting the tilt of my head or the positioning of my hand on my partner's back? I wouldn't last two weeks at such a class.

I know, I know these things are really, really important but I just want to dance and concentrating on what I am doing wrong too early would demoralise me.

Clive

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by frodo

...For that reason, is there really a problem with a beginner lead looking at the floor - at least he isn't stepping on his partners feet...

I sued to think that beginners should be encouraged to look at partners, but, according to a scientific report, looking at peoples faces requires a lot of brain power, and it helps concentration not to look at peoples faces. That is probably the source of, "Wouldn't look me in the eye." People have to concentrate more when inventing a story than they do when recounting a fact. Somewhere on this forum is a link to a site which states that the direction that they look away is significant too.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by frodo

For that reason, is there really a problem with a beginner lead looking at the floor?

Nope I don't think that's too much of a problem - provided they grow out of it within their first few lessons. Otherwise if they can't look at their partner, then I doubt much can be taught in the way of body language because they aren't interested in it enough.

With hindsight - I'm basing this body language thing on only 3 guys I know of who dance in Scotland, so perhaps it doesn't really need to be taught except in some extreme cases?

[MartinHarper]

1) Lead/Follow fundamentals.
2) Finding the beat in the music.
3) How to ask someone for a dance.
4) How to smile.

[Dorothy]

Originally Posted by DavidB

If you are talking about a beginners class, then the only thing that should be taught is 2 or 3 moves. No technique, No style. No musicality. Everything else can be done later. (Whether it is or not is a different question)

Shouldn't these principles be introduced at an early stage, or are you in danger of scaring off the struggling beginner? In ballroom, the things that Gus listed ARE introduced from day 1, but I suppose it's aiming at a different type of person (?) than Ceroc.

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by Dorothy

Shouldn't these principles be introduced at an early stage, or are you in danger of scaring off the struggling beginner?

You answered your own question.

Beginners Modern Jive classes are there to entertain and teach a dance, not to create good dancers.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by DavidB

You answered your own question.

Beginners Modern Jive classes are there to entertain and teach a dance, not to create good dancers.

*makes note to re-read in a week's time*

Be Well,
Christopher

[Trousers]

Originally Posted by Gus

Responding to feedback a few females made about beginners at our Chester club. They are no worse than anywhere else,

If it's Chester in particular then my particular bugbear is just 'cos the entrance door is directly opposite the toilet door it does not mean you can walk straight across the dance floor to the toilet on arrival! GGGrrrrrrrrrr

Yup to paraphrase. . . . . . etiquette, etiquette, etiquette thats the biggy for me and lots of the dancers i dance with.

I would add one point though - there are numerous dancers of the recognised pseudo level of '6 weeks or more' that just haven't found RYTHM.
Without it the girls have a god awful time trying to follow and it can be frankley embarrassing to watch. Ladies that haven't found the rythm of the music tend to race everything which just causes the guy confusion.
So ODA i would suggest that on your first night they lend you a copy of Footloose and a walkman!!!!

but with my tongue out of my cheek is it possible to explain that the moves go to the music better than it is done at the moment.

If you could enhance the dancers rythm and feel of the music i'm sure they'd progress a lot faster.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Trousers

So ODA i would suggest that on your first night they lend you a copy of Footloose and a walkman!!!!

I have no idea if this is actually done but.......

Keeping the freestyle music immediately after the beginners refresher class simple and leaving the more complicated stuff for say, another half an hour would be useful.
Be Well,
Christopher

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Ghost

I have no idea if this is actually done but.......

Keeping the freestyle music immediately after the beginners refresher class simple and leaving the more complicated stuff for say, another half an hour would be useful.
Be Well,
Christopher

Some Ceroc DJ's I know generally reserve the faster and more complex tracks until the taxi dancers are off duty.

[frodo]

Originally Posted by Trousers

...
So ODA i would suggest that on your first night they lend you a copy of Footloose and a walkman!!!!...

Timing tapes may be both useful and more acceptable though (No ODA needed).

Not sure if rhythm comes nearly as quickly as moves though.