Let's talk about style.....

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by under par

What is STYLE?
.......
Apoogies for a bit of a ramble...

I think I repeated elements of your post there UP. That will teach me to read things in future

[Gadget]

I think that "Style" and "Technique" are different entities, and can be taught seperatly;
"Style" is anything that does not add to the lead/follow communication with your partner.
"Technique" is how to make sure that your style does not interfear in the communication with your partner, or alternativly that the elements of style you intend do get communicated to your partner.

"Technique" with regards to style is generally isolation. Other than that it's about forming lines, playing with timeing and not falling over.

[Yogi_Bear]

Well, at its simplest, technique is what it takes to execute the moves or steps correctly and accurately; style (or more accurately, stylishness) is what you add to make it look good. The former can readily be taught, the latter is much harder to convey. You can have technique yet be totally lacking style. You cannot easily have style without good basic technique.

[Twirly]

Listening to the above, does anyone think it worth doing the "style" workshops that Ceroc offers? Was thinking about it, but now wonder if it's worth it. Any suggestions?

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally Posted by Twirly

Listening to the above, does anyone think it worth doing the "style" workshops that Ceroc offers? Was thinking about it, but now wonder if it's worth it. Any suggestions?

I think it would depend on your level of development as a dancer.

But without knowing anything about the content of these workshops, my own view is that while I would pay for a workshop to learn correct technique (including lead and follow, compression, leverage etc) I would prefer to appreciate style by watching others (both live and recorded).

There again there is musicality. Neither technique nor stylishness. I know I would pay for a good lesson in that.

[Yogi_Bear]

My suggestion for an interesting MJ workshop:
(a) How to dance a track well using just one move
(b) How to dance a track well without using moves at all.

A synthesis of technique, style and above all, musicality.......

[timbp]

Originally Posted by Twirly

Listening to the above, does anyone think it worth doing the "style" workshops that Ceroc offers? Was thinking about it, but now wonder if it's worth it. Any suggestions?

Why not?

You're sure to learn somthing, even if it is technique rather than style

In Sydney, the current world salsa champions teach "style" workshops, so they see style in salsa as something worth learning separately to salsa technique.

I cant' see why that wouldn't also apply in ceroc.

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Twirly

Listening to the above, does anyone think it worth doing the "style" workshops that Ceroc offers? Was thinking about it, but now wonder if it's worth it. Any suggestions?

Yes.

It teaches where it's "safe" to add style, gives some options/suggestions on what to do and what not to do, and incorporates a little bit of musicality, hi-jacking and lead/follow techniques.

Also depends on who's teaching it - different teachers are stronger in different areas.

[under par]

Originally Posted by Paul F

I think I repeated elements of your post there UP. That will teach me to read things in future

You described it far mor eloquently.

[karlhudds]

for me style is being able to accomplish beginer moves and or variations to music that you enjoy

this dose also mean having fun while you dance

i see toooo many people dancing without a smile i think "why come"

but thats just me

alot of people from hudds think i have style and ask me to teach them!!

i think its better if you can develop a style and then its yours ?????

[karlhudds]

erm sorry but just one other thing thats very stylish to me anyway

using a slot/track/ line i think this can seam boring but you dont have to worry as much about where your dancing and who you might be dancing into

[tomboh]

Interesting discussion about the difference between style and technique:

Originally Posted by Yogi_Bear

Well, at its simplest, technique is what it takes to execute the moves or steps correctly and accurately; style (or more accurately, stylishness) is what you add to make it look good.

This definition works for me, and reminds me of something I read - I forget what - about the difference between expression and communication.

Expression describes our personal interpretation of an idea (style), whereas communication describes our audience's perception of our expression (technique).

Style strikes me as a deeply personal way of leading or following a dance. We all have different styles. Sometimes two dancers' styles click, sometimes not. But we have a shared technique that allows us to communicate with dancers we don't know. That technique derives from indicators that point most dancers in the right direction. But style lets us express our own individuality within the constraints of technique.

I don't think of technical constraints as negative. Without them, leading and following wouldn't work. But without style, we would mechanise the way we dance.

[Twirly]

So one needs technique (the steps in Ceroc) before one can embellish with style?

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally Posted by karlhudds

erm sorry but just one other thing thats very stylish to me anyway

using a slot/track/ line i think this can seam boring but you dont have to worry as much about where your dancing and who you might be dancing into

Why would slotted dancing be boring? Why would it amke it harder to dance stylishly? I don't understand....

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally Posted by Twirly

So one needs technique (the steps in Ceroc) before one can embellish with style?

Depends where you are starting from, but I would say if you are new to MJ and have little other dance experience then you need a basic groundwork in technique first. Without that I don't see how dancing 'with good style' would work.

[tomboh]

Originally Posted by Twirly

So one needs technique (the steps in Ceroc) before one can embellish with style?

I don't see it as a choice between style and technique. You learn technique; you develop style. Sure, some beginners pick up a more technical approach while others quickly adopt their own style, but neither extreme can ignore aspects of the other approach.

I can't imagine a purely stylistic or technical dance, so I don't see how anyone can focus exclusively on one, neglecting the other.

[littlewiggle]

Originally Posted by tomboh

I don't see it as a choice between style and technique. You learn technique; you develop style.

I think you have captured my thoughts here too! Style comes from within and grows with confidence. Two people may have the same technique but I think style is an individual interpretation. I remember when I first started to dance, any thoughts of style where out of the window as I was concentrating so hard on the moves, I couldn't cope with putting style into it as well. As my dancing progressed, I decided some flair was needed and brought in arm and foot styling and my very own 'little wiggle' hence the pseudo

[spindr]

Technique is learning what you can dance.
Style is choosing what to dance, not just a habit.

SpinDr

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Tomboh

I can't imagine a purely stylistic or technical dance

I've been taught a couple of "dances" by Johnny Lloyd that might qualify as "purely technical". Just lead/follow fundamentals in a closed position. Solo-dancing comes pretty close to "purely stylistic".

[Twirly]

Originally Posted by littlewiggle

I think you have captured my thoughts here too! Style comes from within and grows with confidence. Two people may have the same technique but I think style is an individual interpretation. I remember when I first started to dance, any thoughts of style where out of the window as I was concentrating so hard on the moves, I couldn't cope with putting style into it as well. As my dancing progressed, I decided some flair was needed and brought in arm and foot styling and my very own 'little wiggle' hence the pseudo

That's pretty much what I was thinking when I asked my question. Those first few weeks it's a case of staying upright and not getting in a tangle with other beginners. Then you get to dance with better dancers as your confidence improves - only to be struggling to stay upright and not get in a tangle with them... and as you get better and dance with even better (and faster!) dancers... you know what I mean

See my other thread about relaxing whilst dancing - those I'm familiar with I can start to develop a style with, whilst those whom I find more of a challenge, well I'm too worried about messing it up!