Beginners moving to Intermediate

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

It's not a Basics class, so it shouldn't be called a Basics class.

As I pointed out. It's semantics - would you say a Ceroc "Essentials" class is really essential? They weren't around when I started dancing and I coped.

Most of us are sensible enough to know that the name of the class is just a label, however some folk aren't (initially), and they imbue the label with a value it doesn't deserve. If that value is an impediment to someone learning dancing, then maybe it needs looked at. It's just an idea...

[jiveoholic]

Originally Posted by Stuart M

As I pointed out. It's semantics - would you say a Ceroc "Essentials" class is really essential? They weren't around when I started dancing and I coped.

Most of us are sensible enough to know that the name of the class is just a label, however some folk aren't (initially), and they imbue the label with a value it doesn't deserve. If that value is an impediment to someone learning dancing, then maybe it needs looked at. It's just an idea...

So what shall we call the class, whilst the intermediates are doing their fancy moves, where the beginners have another go in slow motion with the help of a taxi dancer......remedial class?

I would like to call the intermediate class the "improvers class".....but not many improve I once thought of buying a batch of badges saying "feedback welcome", "no drops please", "perverts need not apply" etc to help dancers set the rules of engagement!

Oh dear I think I am getting cinical!

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Stuart M

Would you say a Ceroc "Essentials" class is really essential?

No. I would say that they tend to teach the essentials of Ceroc: walking and spinning.

I think calling the beginners class a "basics class" would be unnecessarilly confusing, given that there are existing classes and workshops that promote themselves as teaching "basics", and teach different (and more valuable) material to a beginners class.

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

No. I would say that they tend to teach the essentials of Ceroc: walking and spinning.

Odd. I would consider leading and following more essential than either of these, yet neither are explored much in the "Essentials" class (and I'd dispute whether spinning is covered much anyway). And I wouldn't expect a 5-minute warm-up to cover these things with anything even approaching adequacy. So I consider the term "Essentials" very inaccurate and confusing, but because it doesn't turn anyone off to doing the class, I've no problem with it. Granted, if it had been called the "Cheesecake" class, or the "Walking and Wiggling" class then I might have a problem, but the term Essentials is OK by me as shorthand.

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

I think calling the beginners class a "basics class" would be unnecessarilly confusing, given that there are existing classes and workshops that promote themselves as teaching "basics", and teach different (and more valuable) material to a beginners class.

There may indeed be such classes and workshops, but they are not part of the model of a standard Ceroc/MJ evening, which is all that most dancers are exposed to in terms of dance education.
Personally I don't see "Basics" being any more misleading than "Beginners": you don't have to be a beginner to learn things from doing that class, but it does pretty much allow you to learn all the basics of Modern Jive. However the term "Beginners" is IMHO more likely to put people off doing it than "Basics".

Anyway, as I said at the start this is a minor point about semantics and marketing, so I'll leave it at that

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Stuart M

Odd. I would consider leading and following more essential than either of these, yet neither are explored much in the "Essentials" class

The "essentials" class is designed to get people to step on the beat and get the timing. I would say that this is essential. The rest is just a bonus.

Personally I don't see "Basics" being any more misleading than "Beginners": you don't have to be a beginner to learn things from doing that class, but it does pretty much allow you to learn all the basics of Modern Jive.

I think that it teaches you the "Basics" of the intermediate class - not the basics of dancing. ("Foundation class"? I like the sound of that )

[Jhutch]

Originally Posted by Gadget

Isn't that an argument for putting the complex one at the start? Then you have lots more chances to try it, practice it and attempt to get it right.

Originally Posted by jiveoholic

There is some logic in your reply....however I hated it. End of story! One must consider the psychological feelings of a beginner, just self-promoted to intermediates who can't even get the first move right and is all off-put so is unable to merge into the second and thirds moves. You also feel so stupid and wasting the time of each lady.

As a fairly recent intermediate i have to say that i agree with jiveoholic's point of view If you are new to intermediate classes and want to do the 'take one move' thing, then surely it is best to go over the easiest move the most times as this is the one that you are most likely to try and use in freestyle? Having the complex move first does mean that you get to do it the most times and should therefore get better at it. However, if it is still beyond you then it means that when you put the moves together you are quite likely to mess up early on. This makes you feel a bit silly and also is likely to mean that you do the easy move even less as you have lost the chance to do it when the routine is put together (i can never successfully join back in one on the third move ). Certainly i appreciate it when the first move is a fairly straightforward one. If the complex one is last and i mess it up when the routine is put together then at least it wont matter that much as i probably wouldnt expect to be doing it in freestyle - yet it is always worth doing as i suppose i will probably want to learn the more complex ones at some point At the end of the day though, when i started doing intermediate classes i realised that, with the big spread of experience/abilities, i wasn't going to get a class specifically aimed at me - more experienced people may well gain more from having the complex move first

[MartinHarper]

The other problem with doing the hardest move first is that you have to go into it "cold". In practice nobody would ever start a freestyle dance with a difficult move - we start with something easy and work from there. Class routines benefit from having a simpler move at the start, for much the same reasons.

[tsh]

More experienced people probably benefit from having the move described better. It normally takes me a couple of runs through a move to work out what it is that the teacher is trying to describe (so no, it's not just you that can't make sense of it!)

That being said, more chances to practice the difficult part is useful - but a tricky move at the start of the routine usually prevents me from linking the routine back at the end. I like the first move to be a variation on one of the moves in the beginners class, apart from anything else, this gives an example of how moves can be groken down into simpler elements.

Sean