What is an advanced dancer (in weekender terms)?

One recurrent theme on the various Cerocport threads has been that Ceroc offer little or nothing for the 'advanced dancer' on their weekenders. I infer from these statements

• those posting consider themselves within that group
• Jive Addiction do provide more for the 'advanced dancer' on their weekends

I'd be keen to know

• how do you define an advanced dancer in this context?
• what (other than the presence of lots of other 'advanced' dancers for social dancing which is not really something that the organiser provides) are the elements of a JA weekender which had particular relevance/appeal for the 'advanced' dancer?

An advanced dancer could be thus:

Someone who has sufficient grounding in all dance technique to lead and follow anyone regardless of level.

Someone who can take what they have learned and add something of their own individuality to the mix.

Someone who can adapt to all styles of dance and music with little problem after a fair amount of learning and freestyle.

best
johnnyman

Am far as I'm concerned , it's nothing to do with lessons.

I found the likes of Viktor's classes pretty easy yet am FAR from anywhere near advanced. Barely near intermediate.

I think advanced is at a level greater than what is seen at an average club/social night. ie those couples that just stand out a mile from the rest. Purely down to freestyle ability though.

Dick Crum's definition works for me:

1. Beginning dancer: Knows nothing.
2. Intermediate dancer: Knows everything, but is too good to dance with beginners.
3. Hotshot dancer: Too good to dance with anyone.
4. Advanced dancer: Dances everything, especially with beginners.

AARRGGHH The prodigal son returns under the guise of what is an advanced dancer?

I am not an advanced dancer, but I could be if I stopped messing around on the dance floor and if I didnt enjoy it so much. I can now dance as well as a follower as I can as a lead. I have been told numeous times that I am a better follower than a lot of women on the dance scene. Does this make me advanced?

Define, if you will, fellow Forumites exactly what is an advanced dancer? I cannot all I can look at are the dancers who are exceptional in my eyes, ie Fletch, Trouble, TwirlieBird, DutchGinger, Sara White and Freudian Hips, Batgirl, Babs, Jean to name but a small few..

Do I dance with these? Your Damn Squiggling Tex I do All top of the game in my eyes.

Exceptional men robd, Jamie, Josh, Onkar, Filthy Monkey, Colin from Brighton way, Andy McGregor, Under Par. Not teachers but just sh1t hot social dancers.

All of these afore mentioned geezers and trouts dance with who ever asks them, beginners to fantastic dancers.

The list is endless, AFAIAC,

It is not about the moves, it is how you make your dancing partner feel, if she/he feels sh1t at the end of a dance then you are sh1t. If they feel great then you are great.

It is all about connection and feelings and not about the moves.

Some fantastic dancers have about 4 to 8 moves and if you dance with them you can go home then, because the rest of the night is just filler.

Bit of a ramble but you know what I am trying to say.

DTS XXX XXX

Tried to add this edit so here we go....Bit of a story

Last Southport I spotted a little old Lady on the edge of the Blues dance floor, as nervous as a kitten, jigging about just itching to be asked to dance.

I went for her but was beaten to it by Stokie. When Stokie had finished with her I mopped up the pieces and gave her 2 or 3 dances and at the end she said to me....
" Those dances with you 2 were the best dances of my life".

Me and Stokie saw she was nervous and made her soar in the clouds and she felt like a million dollars.

Now thats what it is all about. Advanced dancers or not, THATS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT.

DTS XXX XXX

No bullsh1t, no fanfare just a nice reaction from Stokie and me which left someone feeling special.

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Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder

It is not about the moves, it is how you make your dancing partner feel, if she/he feels sh1t at the end of a dance then you are sh1t. If they feel great then you are great.

It is all about connection and feelings and not about the moves.

Some fantastic dancers have about 4 to 8 moves and if you dance with them you can go home then, because the rest of the night is just filler.

Bit of a ramble but you know what I am trying to say.

DTS XXX XXX

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:yeah:

Well said DTS :respect:

Oops, missed this:

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Originally Posted by robd

what (other than the presence of lots of other 'advanced' dancers for social dancing which is not really something that the organiser provides) are the elements of a JA weekender which had particular relevance/appeal for the 'advanced' dancer?

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Errrr.... :what:

Ummm.... :confused:

Can you give us a clue? Is it a film? :D

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Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder

Define, if you will, fellow Forumites exactly what is an advanced dancer?

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I think it's one of those terms that changes its meaning according to the situation you find yourself in. It depends on the standard of dancers who are around for you to be compared to.

By local standards I'm advanced (a big fish in a small pool). By wider UK standards I'm just a competent intermediate (a small fish in a big pool). At Blackpool this year I was out in the first round of Intermediates, yet some of the beginners at my local venue have told me I'm a fantastic dancer. There's no contradiction there, as it's all a matter of perception and perspective.

In other words, there's no point trying to define what an advanced dancer is, because the definition would be constantly changing according to where you were at the time.

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Originally Posted by Baruch

I think it's one of those terms that changes its meaning according to the situation you find yourself in. It depends on the standard of dancers who are around for you to be compared to.

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:yeah: An advanced dancer (in the terms of this specific weekender question) is in my opinion someone who would get little from attending classes aimed at intermediates. They're the people who attend Southport to dance and have privates with champions.

Please remember Baruch that social dancing and competition dancing are two completely different beasts. Someone who can set the floor on fire in a competition with their 'regular' partner may be dull as dish water on a social floor. Don't let competition results cloud your mind too much as it's a very artificial environment.

Back to DTS's point - it's about how you make your partner feel that counts I think. I have seen a few people who have great moves, but their dancing lacks any sort of connection. It's quite odd to watch.

I recall the lady you mentioned Dave, it was Saturday afternoon if I recall correctly. It's a circular thing. If you can make someone feel special and make them soar (as opposed to sore:lol: ) then their reaction lifts you equally. That's what social dancing is all about. Isn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baruch

By local standards I'm advanced (a big fish in a small pool). By wider UK standards I'm just a competent intermediate (a small fish in a big pool). At Blackpool this year I was out in the first round of Intermediates, yet some of the beginners at my local venue have told me I'm a fantastic dancer. There's no contradiction there, as it's all a matter of perception and perspective.

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Beginners at local venues... I've lost count of the number of times women have said to me 'I could watch you dance all night' etc - I always know they are the newbies! But its still nice (though it does make me a bit self conscious sometimes). Its all relative. Locally I'm one of the top dancers, elsewhere I'm probably pretty much average. Which is fine, though I love to be challenged and learn from having to follow a playful leader.

I dislike the term 'advanced' dancers. I prefer to think about the more 'experienced' dancers. And they tend to be those who dance more than one style, have at least dabbled in other styles and brought that into their MJ, dance at a variety of different venues with different teaching styles and can dance with a wide cross section of people.

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Originally Posted by StokeBloke

I recall the lady you mentioned Dave, it was Saturday afternoon if I recall correctly. It's a circular thing. If you can make someone feel special and make them soar (as opposed to sore:lol: ) then their reaction lifts you equally. That's what social dancing is all about. Isn't it?

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:yeah: i personally prefer to dance with someone who is going to enjoy the dance rather than someone who is just going through the moves, no matter what "level" a dancer they are!

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Originally Posted by drathzel

:yeah: i personally prefer to dance with someone who is going to enjoy the dance rather than someone who is just going through the moves, no matter what "level" a dancer they are!

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I couldn't agree more with this, its so lovely to dance with people who like to have fun with the music and make you feel like they are having the time of their life when dancing with you. For me connection, musicality and attitude are above fancy moves anyday in social dancing. :flower:

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Originally Posted by rubyred

For me connection, musicality and attitude are above fancy moves anyday in social dancing. :flower:

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Hell Yeah!!!! Enjoy the dance for what it is... not what it wasnt!

The clip here shows some examples of the level that I would expect from an advanced weekly class -- and that's why I go -- not just for the free tea'n'biccie :-)

I'd hope a weekender would give enough time for even more in-depth coverage.

SpinDr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drathzel

:yeah: i personally prefer to dance with someone who is going to enjoy the dance rather than someone who is just going through the moves, no matter what "level" a dancer they are!

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Youll be ok with me then cos most people dance with me for comic value alone :whistle:

I think that an "Advanced" dancer in terms of a weekender environment would be someone who understood, looked for and would not be put off by subtle things. They are not looking for anything "new" as such, but new ways to move or how to improve their existing movement and communication. Being shown to look at something they hadn't before or approach something in a different way.
Without the knowledge of "where" to move, it's hard to teach "how" to move. The "advanced dancer" has the where and is looking for advice on the how and when.
But the common opinion on people who think on themselves as "advanced" will probably not fall into this pigeon hole very well and is looking for some flash 'where' by some teacher they respect.

The unfortunate thing is that most people assume that this "advanced" stuff is only for people who know their stuff already... but I think that anyone beyond the "beginner" level benefits from it (as has been proven again and again by the workshops Franck puts on).


Competition definitions and social definitions of "advanced" will probably differ. (competition = looks; social = feel; student = technique) A generic "advanced" dancer would have to meet the 'advanced' criteria on all three facets I think.

Thinking over and above the term 'Advanced' dancer - where does a Master Jiver fit into this? Saw many Master Jivers at a recent dance weekend in Australia but noticed that they kept to their own kind or just sat around doing nothing. Assume that when one gets to that level is this what you are meant to do??

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Originally Posted by StokeBloke

Please remember Baruch that social dancing and competition dancing are two completely different beasts. Someone who can set the floor on fire in a competition with their 'regular' partner may be dull as dish water on a social floor. Don't let competition results cloud your mind too much as it's a very artificial environment.

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Cheers, Stokie, but I don't let it bother me. Considering the quality of the other competitors, it was no shame to go out in the first round, though of course, we'll be trying to do better next time.

You wanna see advanced dancers?

Look at anybody in the blues room this weekend at SP, the standard of dancing was AWESOME truly awesome. Not just confined to the blues room I may add I had some wicked dances in all of the rooms at SP.

DTS XXX XX