OK, here's the poll we've all been waiting for – hope no-one has already beat me to it?!?!
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OK, here's the poll we've all been waiting for – hope no-one has already beat me to it?!?!
Booked Eclipse allready.
DTS XXX XXX
Eclipse already booked!!
The programme for Blush should be up in 2-3 weeks so that you can see what's on offer. Might help in making an informed decision.
Eclipse already booked, me, scarface and the sexy Ruby Red.......:na:
yummy - nothing is gonna stop me attending this one.... well maybe total leg loss but even then, i still might go... learn how to dance with a chair. :whistle:
Please don't under estimate the help you have already given everyone to help them make up their mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky
Talking about weekenders in the winter, it is fair to ask for the WCS dance festival in Paris to be added to the poll ? It's a weekender and in the winter (jan 9-11) ;)
I'll be going. And to Eclipse too. :nice:
Ahhh... That's the sort of nice positive comment that makes the Forum such a warm and welcoming place. :flower:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef
I'm all teared up now. See? :tears:
:D
It's fair to ask, certainly. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Caro
I have booked on Eclipse.
Although I have nothing against Ceroc at all (well, maybe a little after what happened) I just cannot believe they would be able to recreate the same vibe.
I suppose I could keep second guessing myself to the contrary but, out of a sense of loyalty to an event, I had to book Eclipse.
Hmmmm... If I were crazy enough to go Up North in the middle of Winter, I think I'd probably choose Blush.
But as I'm not that crazy, I won't.
Good Lord what is it with you and Rocky (who didn't like the post). All we have to do is look at the threads concerning the forthcoming Blush event (Mike Ellards statement on blush and subsequent posts and the Blush Southport suggestions threads) and Rocky has already expounded the vision for the new Blush event (build on what was good at Southport with the addition of sucessful aspects from other Ceroc weekenders).Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
It is not like we have to have an actual timetable with assigned teachers to be able to get an inkling of what is likely to be there. We are not completely in the dark about waht Cerocs vision for Blush is.
At the moment we don't know that much in detail about the JA event in Skegness except that the WCS pros will be Kyle Redd and Sarah Vann Drake (if my memory serves me).
The dates of the two events don't clash so as long as money, holiday time for travelling and sheer energy permit then there is no reason why people can't go to both.
In any case each event is far from getting full so there really isn't any need to rush to get the last tickets.
Let's get this straight. I have no loyalty to any organisation or organiser. As long as they provide what I want then we will have a transaction of cash for services - end of deal.
Of course, if I happen to like the personality of the organiser as well then that is a bonus and may have some influence when it comes to making borderline decisions.
Where is the option forQuote:
Originally Posted by ducasi
“was going to send cheque for Eclipse today but couldn’t find cheque book at home (2 minute look this morning), will have a proper look for it tonight hope its where I think it is but ‘we still want to go please please please. would have book on site but something happen option ?
I'm guessing that's because DB and I (not easy bedfellows you have to admit) both viewed it as a sarcastic comment - and you have to admit it can be read that way. But thank you for your later clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef
I rep you as thought you were being sarcastic but I think rep still worth itQuote:
Originally Posted by Chef
People can vote with their feet but im sure a 'them and us' mentality is good for no one
We're secret lovers. Haven't you seen the conspiracy thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef
OK, OK, sorry, I misinterpreted your remark. I'm in a funny mood at the moment, it's probably hormonal.
sothern softie :na:Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
Well, I have to admit that Blush is looking tempting... with most female forumites going to Eclipse, I stand more of a chance of getting a few dances with Franck :yum:
This is a bit embarrassing but I think I'm going to Blush :blush:
See what I did there?
:wink:
I mean.. if ANYONE goes to blush it should be me. I mean it's my one defining feature other than my excessive geekiness. heck I'm even blushing thinking about blushing. Should change my forum name to Pete the Geek with the Themonuclear cheeks!
I thought this was sarcastic ? Im a synic I guessQuote:
Originally Posted by Chef
-ve rep on the wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Look I know I am being a bit of a thicko milicko here but are these 2 events clashing, ie on the same weekend?
A very confused DTS XXX XXX
Nope - two weeks apart. So its perfectly possible to do both.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder
Then I shall do both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead number 1.
Name that flim sport fans.
Woolfy it is just too easy for you so mums the word.
DTS XXX XXX
:confused: Er, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by stewart38
If it's the bad joke, that I understand (I have to live with them, I should know :rolleyes:), but if it's because he (and me) are possibly going to Blush, then is everyone going to get neg rep from you for it :confused:
Probably useful and interesting if some folk do, good to hear about the comparisons.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder
Aside from cost/time issues (only so many weekenders a year I can do and already booked for two Eclipse events), I think I'd just feel sad being at SP and it being different with a lot of familiar faces missing. :(
It was my feeble attempt at sarcasm :blush: Plus the previous ‘them and us’ approach I mentioned aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by Twirly
I might still do both :flower:
Perhaps the moderator can remove it and this as its not relevant to the thread :blush:
Although I think a Blush and/or Eclipse is better as a thread title rather then 'one or the other type approach as Lynn says they are two weeks apart and people can do both
Thanks :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by stewart38
Changing my vote now.. we're definitely going to Blush now :)
Keep those buttocks clenched as I WILL be having a fudge. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
:what::sick::blush:Quote:
Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder
"A finger of fudge is just enough to give your kids a treat"
:naughty::rofl:
Oh bet you are all excited now aint cha???Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Will you be dancing this time my lover???
If so save a couple for me.:doh:
fletch let me know what i o u for feb ok
so excited just need to book the blush one now:lol:
I don't think I'll be able to go to both Blush & Eclipse, so I'm weighing the pros and cons...
Perhaps other people can add to these lists...
Ceroc Blush – Southport
Pros
* Known venue
* Relatively near Scotland
* Good transport links
* Single building on one level
* Outdoor dancing (maybe not in January!!)
* Good blues room space
* Some of my favourite DJs
* Part-organised by Franck
Cons
* Pontin's accommodation
* Unknown quantity – how will Ceroc change it? Will it be as good?
* Fewer dancers travelling from the South of England?
Jive Addiction Eclipse – Skegness
Pros
* Good accommodation
* The same Jive Addiction formula that worked in Southport
* More dancers travelling from the South of England?
* A few of my favourite DJs
* Butlin's extras
Cons
* Unknown quantity – what will it be like? Will it work?
* 100 miles, and 2 hours further away from Scotland
* Relatively poor road links
* Dance venues spread across at least 2 buildings on a large campus
* Sharing the place with Joe Punter.
* Relatively expensive
Hmmm...
Wasn't a difficult decision for me despite Skegness being further/longer for me to travel and slightly more expensive (£10) - it will have the music and the people and that's what its about. :D
That's aside from the 'business tactics' in taking over someone else's venue and dates that I'm not going to keep going on about but neither am I going to forget. :(
I solved the dilemma quite easily. I wont be going to either. The chances are the weather will be miserable making travel a pain, there wont be any outside dancing and colds and such like will be rife.
Better to wait for the feedback and then make some more informed choices for later in the year.
There are now far too many week-enders to go to all of them. I would however like to try to get to a Scottish one next year. Is there any news on that front?
Looks like the nearest thing to a large-scale Scottish weekender next year will be in Southport. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Leader
Duh - just remembered that Skegness will actually be £10 cheaper than Ceroc Southport (forgot about the discount).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
It reckon it should be Ceroc Blush in Ainsdale which:-Quote:
Originally Posted by ducasi
- Avoids confusion with the past Jive Addiction events
- Might encourage Ceroc to get the nearest rail stations correct.
Even if Ceroc has moved the Pontins centre 10 miles or so north west, it might help to make sure your taxi is amphibiousQuote:
Originally Posted by Ceroc Blush 'How to get there'
I'd be surprised if it isn't a very good offering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky
Mike Ellard's statement shows a very definite attitude towards competition. And based on that there are good competitive reasons to make a big effort for the first couple of events.
Storm I and II were very good.
But this year the Ceroc Camber weekenders were very well attended without offering nearly as much (in dance rather than general entertainment terms). In business terms, a sensible decision, as the only major competitor had no spare capacity.
The location is good one. It is likely it won't be very long until Ceroc can fill it by promoting it to their own members with a similar offering to the current Ceroc Camber offerings.
While I've certainly enjoyed Ceroc weekenders, the increasingly apparent lack of variety, perhaps related to the Ceroc only teaching/DJ thing, doesn't give me hope for the longer term.
Jive Addiction, by contrast, have time and time again offered a excellent and consistent product, and clearly made an effort to improve it over time.
I don't expect Eclipse to start as well as Southport finished. Ceroc might well put together an arguably better event in February.
However given the Jive Addiction track record, they look to be a far better long term bet, and well worth supporting during the transition.
The wild card is Franck. If the event was called Blaze X, I'd have a lot more long term confidence in it.
Franck has consistently offered a lot in dance terms, and kept the quality high (similarly to Jive Addiction really).
But while I understand he will be involved in some way, he isn't running it.
Not sure if you can call Franck a 'wild card'. As you said, Franck has consistently offered a lot. He's a fantastic teacher and an amazing organizer. He always listens to the punters (like John and Wes), and his events just get better and better each time I go. This includes Blaze, (which is one of my favourite dance weekenders, only beaten by Jive Addicition's Southport) the Beach Ballroom weekends, the Focus Weekenders in Kirriemuir, the party nights and themed weekends (like the recent tango weekend in Edinburgh).Quote:
Originally Posted by frodo
As far as I've understood, Franck will be heavily involved in the organisation of Blush, which is one reason it makes it sound quite promising to me. If he wasn't involved, I probably wouldn't even consider going.
BTW - where's the option of 'I'm going to both'??
You can tick more than one option to show this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Monkey
...or I'm staying at home :sick:
I've come top the conclusion that tango breaks are really where I'm at and although I really enjoyed Southport (cas it was the last one), I should focus my weekenders where my true passions lie...
So I'll be at home
...or be at tango
For me the big difference is having Joe Punter around at Skegport. That happened at the last Franco Butlins at Bognor, it gives the weekender a totally different feel.
Also, of course, roads to Skegness are basically Sshite from the South. Prolly an extra one, maybe two hours longer than the Southport journey. (contra pro point is of course, the easier accessability to Norfolk & areas). I suspect Skegport will lose a lot of, at least, Southern central/western dancers, but gain many from Anglia.
So Skegport is a 'no' for me. That journey, yuck.
Blush totally depends for me on the teacher lineup. No WCS US Pros would mean a 'no' for me. No external MJ teachers would mean a 'no'. We'll see.
I've been on a 'shared site' at 3 of the Ceroc weekenders I've been on and its never been a problem. While its lovely to have an exclusive site, the non dancers are never in the dance venues so its really only a case of seeing them as you walk to and from your accomodation as you go in to dance, or in the restaurants etc. I've also been on a couple of weekends where we stayed in a hotel across the road and went over to the dance venues. None of it really made any difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by TA Guy
I know what you mean about wanting a certain 'feel' to a weekend though. But for me that is about the people who are there. I realised this so much at the last Southport and I completely understand that this may be different for those new to weekenders, or who don't know as many people. But for me, just walking onto the edge of the blues room floor, hearing a track I like and a quick glance around meaning there is choice of wonderful leads who I know I love dancing with is what makes it special for me.
Oh right - it's a shared weekender then? I didn't realise. How come? Is it a much larger venue?Quote:
Originally Posted by TA Guy
Well, who doesn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
Yeah, that did strike me as somewhat different when the flyers last weekend. I figured that if there was Silver accommodation available to us, it stood to reason that there would be other accommodation on site.Quote:
Originally Posted by TA Guy
I remember a Breeze event I went to, I think, last year or the year before where we shared with people from the line dance community.
Ok, not Joe Public but nevertheless I dont think I saw any evidence that there were others around.
Eclipse for me is about giving it a chance. It may turn out to be an awkward layout, horrible fellow campers etc. but at the end of the day I want to give it a chance.
I suppose I should say the same about Ceroc's event and I would be happy to give that the benefit of doubt too but I have to have something to base a decision on. For me it was the way Ceroc took over Southport instead of developing their own event.
What a shame. Couldn't you change your name from Andrew to something else by deed poll?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
For Londoner's it's the train from Kings Cross to Grantham.Quote:
Originally Posted by TA Guy
Then change at Grantham to the Skegness train.
Much nearer and easier for me than Euston to Liverpool, then the tube, then the train to Ainsdale.
The shared site aspect of Eclipse is a bit of a concern for me. I didn't really like that aspect of Blaze though I can't put my finger on the reason why exactly other than noisy kids early in the morning (and that was just the Blaze after party :na:) I do wonder if there will be an issue with noise levels from early morning dancing if there are non-dancing families on site.
Maybe it was a bit late in the day to get exclusive access to Butlins and future events will just be for Eclipse?
Also agree with TA Guy re: travel. The road(s) from Peterborough to Skegness are pretty much single carriageway. It's a lot closer mileage-wise for me than SP but in terms of time the saving may not fully reflect that.
I've just taken a quick peek at the RAC route planner.
From: Brighton
To: Skegness
Total Distance: 211.92 mile(s), about: 4 hour(s) 28 minute(s)
From: Brighton
To: Southport
Total Distance: 277.63 mile(s), about: 4 hour(s) 59 minute(s)
So I'd still save 31 minutes by going to Skegness :clap:
Also, I've sent an email to our customers asking if they'd be interested in us organising a coach. That way the party could start in Brighton :waycool:
Unless there are torrential downpoars :( Just under 7 hours Woking to Southport :sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
That was NOT PLEASANT :mad:
At least with Skegness I should be fine. M25 and M1. No problem.
They are usually pretty light at 3:30pm on a Friday anyway.
:nice:
I can see your 7 hours and add another 3. I got stuck almost everywhere: M25, M40, M6 - the M23 was even a bit slow that particular Friday. It was 3 years before I ventured back to Southport. It seems I missed some fab weekenders :tears:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul F
I too just looked on the RAC routefinder. Southport is 137 miles, 2hrs 40.
Skegness is 106 miles but 3hrs 4 . :sick:
The shared aspect of Skegness is a concern, but a bigger one for me is that the venues are in at least two buildings, and not next to each other either.
Looking at this page, you'll find that "Jaks" is in the "Bars and Pubs" (what's the difference?) building at one end of the map; and "Reds" in in the "Entertainment" building down the other end. It's not clear to me where "Arthur's" is.
One of the best aspects of Southport as a venue for me is that the main room and blues room are separated by a single door.
I hadn't realised it was a shared venue either - really not keen on that.
The last weekender I went to with a shared venue had a couple of problems with regular punters getting into the dancing areas and causing hassle etc.
Plus at SP just there we had an issue with some theft - if its a shared venue how much more likely is it going to be? For example would we have exclusive access of the blues-bar-type-area that I remember seeing on the video? If not I'd be really worried about what I'd bring while dancing... :sick:
That being said I'm still booked for it! :clap: Just need to figure out how I'm going to get there :sick:
and I think she did a very good job to, but should have sung :waycool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
Sorry M25 ,friday and pretty light dont go together for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Paul F
From Ambrosden to Skegness 159 miles 4hrs :sad:
Ambrosden to Southport 172 3hrs 12 mins
Its not about distance quite as much for us, its travel time and flights etc. Southport is definitely a lot easier to get to - good flight times, easy transfer to train, less than an hour on the train. Skegness will be about 30 mins longer on the bus bit, and over an hour longer on the train. Easier than Camber (which admittedly I've never attempted by public transport) and overall prob similar travel time as Blaze - but the flight times are awkward - looks like we might have to fly very early Fri morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by stewart38
It will be worth it though. :D
Hey, if we get our coach from Brighton off the ground we could pick up the Irish at Gatwick - then it's party, party, party all the way there - perhaps we should go the long way to extend the party :waycool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
That would be so much fun! Though I've seen a pic on here of your coach travelling outfit :what: ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
Do you remember the outfit I managed to get you for nothing at Southport - you could just wear that :innocent:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
I have suggested to JA that they should set up a coach transfer service from Nottingham Airport for people from NI and Scotland, and sort out the booking in process on the coach journey so that when you arrive you only have to wander off to your rooms. Not sure if they will take up the suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
You say the flight arrival times are inconvenient - what are the options available?
Any idea about times of outbound flights on the Monday?
Actually, the "coach trip" option sounds like an interesting possibility for JA to explore - Ceroc have explicitly rejected it, I read as much in one of the FAQs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
Lots of work to organise, of course...
I was planning to create a "Transport Director" position and let them do all the work :innocent:Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
Some people like that kind of thing.
But your outfit is pink - we'd clash! :eyebrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
Mon is OK - a 5pm return flight. Its the Fri - either arrive at 9:30am or 8pm which means arriving on site pretty late which we don't want to do. Basically its geared up for business travellers so no mid morning/lunchtime/mid afternoon flights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef
I have many travelling outfits. I was thinking of my Mother Christmas outfit with the red fishnets :waycool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
For men maybeQuote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
You have any idea what women take to a weekender ?
You took women to a weekender via 52 seater coach I'd reckon you could fit 5 with luggage ?? Not viable :sad:
Maybe the furure is virtual weekenders with a blue pill a Wi Fi type thing ??
Dead Stewart Walking... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by stewart38
I've just had a look at the promotional video for Jive Addiction Skegness. I've got to say, the conspiracy theory is looking more likely. John, Wes, are you sure you didn't plan this all along? Butlins looks so much nicer than Southport.
Can't wait for Feb.
Is it true that none dancers can book for that weekend at Skeggy?
Or is it going to be just closed off, just for us?
No worries Lynn. Arrive early in the morning. Drop your bags off with John and Wes and then head to the HUGE market just down the road from Butlins. It is excellent. :D Big enough to easily spend a day there. Maybe get the chance to buy a few more outfits. :whistle:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
There is also a super scary roller coaster that goes all around the top of the market place. :clap:
Oh, sounds good! It would be coming up to lunchtime by the time we arrived in Skegness anyway so we could just find somewhere to leave our stuff, go and get lunch and then shop....Quote:
Originally Posted by Twirlie Bird
Me? New outfits? :innocent::whistle:Quote:
Originally Posted by Twirlie Bird
Must admit the layout of the site at Skeggie is rather offputting. I don't like the idea of having to change shoes and put on a coat just to go from one dance area to another..... I'll end up just being in the Blues Lounge and never even see the mail hall! :(
But then again, there's nothing new there.... :lol:
We're going to share the site with families on half-term break????
:eek:
Noise levels won't be a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by robd
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnah
Oh that's good to hear Jon, you know us dancers get very excited at times.:wink::grin::naughty:
I would have liked to try out my first JA weekender but for me Eclipse will have to wait til June. (The sharing aspect/walking between sites was abit off-putting, but having it on Valentine's weekend means it's not an option for me given my OH is a non-dancer and isn't really impressed with the few weekends I do go away on for dancing).
So I'll be trying Blush - and will be booking up as soon as I've organised some of my crowd to share accommodation
I went to one of Franco;s weekenders Butlins at, it will come to me eventually, and we shared the venue with non dancers and there was no problems there at all.
So if you are making your decision and not going, on there being non dancers at the venue, you are making the wrong decision sport fans.
Where the hell was it? I shared with Onkar and a girl named S** who I was banging for a while.
BOGNOR that was it storming weekend as well it was.
I am hoping to get my sister and her partner along to Eclipse because of the non-dancing activities which I know her partner will like - and Shaz can come dancing with me :wink:
Neither.
Stupid £^&£(%!$% leave system at work that makes us book 6 or 7 months in advance and then won't let us change :tantrum::angry::banghead::tears::(
:hug:Quote:
Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan
It was a no brainer for me - already booked Eclipse
I don't know if Camber Sands has a direct coach service from London.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
I believe Butlins Skegness has a direct National Express coach Fridays/Mondays all year around from London (other UK cities such as Birmingham/Liverpool/Newcastle etc. have direct services in the summer).
:eek: Is it just me that thinks the Ceroc ad entitled "Weekender Warning" at the bottom of this page is in very bad taste in light of the current situation. :angry:
Google picks the adverts based on the content of the page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarfoot
Just added myself to the Eclipse list at my local venue so Skeggie for me in Feb now. It's far closer to me and a lot of my dance 'chums' will be there - and the thought of having a chalet which is cleaner and more modern is not to be underestimated.
Can't afford 2 weekenders in Q1 otherwise I might just go to Blush too and live with the Pontins accommodation challenges.
I've just booked to go to Blush @ Southport.
I figured if I wanted to go there, I'd want a Club apartment, so it'd be better to book it now to make sure to get one.
Still thinking about Eclipse, but as all the accommodation seems quite good, there's no rush to book now.
It'd be interesting to hear from any people who go to both; hopefully (ho ho) in a non-controversial way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agente Secreto
I'd be vaguely interested in going to somewhere in June, so some informed opinions might be helpful.
I was talking to BoardRider on Saturday, were thinking of sorting somthing from Stafford to Skeggy :flower:Quote:
Originally Posted by frodo
Actually, yes - the more I think about it, the more I think it'd be a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch
Even better would be a party bus, with floor to dance on during the journey :)
I would love to join others on an organised coach. It reminds me of the days when I used to travel down to Wembley from the wilds up north.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
I will never forget the sound of opening beer cans just after the driver announces "now you are not allowed to open beer cans on a coach" :rofl:
The only possible issue would be pick up points. From the South Coast I would suggest a point that is a focal place that people can easily get to and that has good road links. Somewhere like, erm, Gatwick airport for example. :nice:
Yes, it's a logistics / organisational problem, basically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul F
Out of interest, I asked for a quick quote from Brighton to Skegness from this random company, the cost was just over £1,000 for a return trip, for a 25-50 seater coach.
Even if you got a couple of dozen people, that'd work out at around £40 per person - not unreasonable, and certainly competitive.
With some work and haggling, I'm sure you could reduce this - maybe to £20 per person, which would be completely reasonable.
It's not impossible, it just needs a few people in the relevant areas to act as "Transport Directors" (good call, Andy :wink: ).
I'd certainly be more interested in going to Skegness if there was a good-sized coach from Glasgow to take me.
But as it's going there on a Friday and coming back on the Monday does that mean you would have to pay £40 each way? As the Coach would be making a return trip back to it's depot on each day, even though it would be empty for one half of each journey. (I'm sure I could have explained that a bit less complicated :rolleyes:)Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
I think a minibus would be a cheaper option with one (or more) of the dancers driving.
No, as I said, the quote is a return one - I entered the dates specifically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruella
Sure - you could hire a minibus for a weekend for £100 no problem - but a coach is nicer I think, and if done right is better value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruella
But no-one says it has to be either / or - for big clumps of dancers, you get a coach, for smaller groups, a minibus.
So are you volunteering to be the Midlands Transport Director then? :grin:
Nope, I'd prefer to get there early in the afternoon than to wait til everyone has finished work and get on a coach/minibus. Being as I have the luxury of Friday afternoons off work :whistle:Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bailey
Too much Xmas pudding for you was there Ducasi?Quote:
Originally Posted by ducasi