"Dancer clusters" in the UK

[David Bailey]

Is it me, or are there some areas in the UK where there are lots of partner dancers, and some areas where it's a dead zone?

For example, Oxford's a great area for partner dancing - not just MJ but others.

But on the other hand, I think Manchester's a dead zone.

Why is there this "clumping"?

It's clearly not a factor of population - or is it just my perception?

Is it something to do with demographics? Historical accident? The Ten?

Any ideas?

[Trouble]

eh ?

[Lee Bartholomew]

Think quality of the teachers / organisers helps.

In hastings we have a MJ class on almost every night of the week, but the teaching is really poor so there is a high turn over of people. Hastings would have a really good MJ scene if the right teachers were in place.


A recent BIG local freestyle had 20 people attend. !!!

[Gav]

Depends how you define "great".
Norwich has MJ, AT and Salsa (probably more, but they're the only ones I know of) virtually every night of the week.
The standard of teaching seems pretty good and they're fairly well attended.
However, I wouldn't say it's a great place area for partner dancing.

Maybe we should create a new Utopian () city for partner dancers only, with all varieties of dancing available and all the best dancers of every form will live there.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Depends how you define "great".
Norwich has MJ, AT and Salsa (probably more, but they're the only ones I know of) virtually every night of the week.
The standard of teaching seems pretty good and they're fairly well attended.
However, I wouldn't say it's a great place area for partner dancing.

Maybe we should create a new Utopian () city for partner dancers only, with all varieties of dancing available and all the best dancers of every form will live there.

And I would rule supreame MMMWWWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

[JiveLad]

Well, fortunately, I live in one of the 'clumps' - in fact, I believe it to be the epicentre of Ceroc/MJ (St. Albans that is).

Most days of the week, there is a choice of 3 or 4 venues which are all within 30 mins drive.

St. Albans itself has over 100 dancers on a regular night, Watford this week (which I don't go to so often) had over 100.

Is it a combination of:

great teachers
venue availability
propensity of the local population ........?? Dunno.

For a marketeer, it might be interesting to map it on to ACORN profiles....but from what I can see, Ceroc/MJ attracts all classes/backgrounds - and has a 'universality' which some other pursuits (eg. fox hunting) don't have. For example, one of the guys who goes to regular events is (allegedly) the richest man in Hertfordshire (no - not me btw).

How was it back in the 1940's or 1950's for partner dancing across the country? (If anyone was around in those times?).

[Daisy Chain]

But on the other hand, I think Manchester's a dead zone.

But there is plenty of choice within a 20 or 30 mile radius which is much easier to reach by driving.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of going dancing in Manchester itself because driving in cities is a nightmare, parking is difficult, I wouldn't feel safe and I would spend the whole night worrying that some toerag would be out there nicking my car and who wants to travel home for 25 miles on public transport at the end of a dance night?

Daisy

(A Country Flower)

[MartinHarper]

It's clearly not a factor of population - or is it just my perception?

It's your perception. The areas of "no dancing" are areas where they dance stuff you don't like.

[Lynn]

Is it me, or are there some areas in the UK where there are lots of partner dancers, and some areas where it's a dead zone?

For some dances, NI is a dead zone. But that is changing. Three years ago there was ballroom and salsa. Now there is also Lindy, AT and of course Ceroc. There are more venues, more teachers and more options.

So is it just a case of partner dancing building momentum and increasing in popularity and this is happening at a different pace in one area than another? Or are there areas where partner dancing is actually declining?

Sorry for being picky but there must be a better way of describing groups of dancers rather than a 'clump?' I have always used it to mean walking around in quite a clumsy way - and the dictionary gives it the same meaning (like clomp). Unless the thread is really a comment on the standards of dancing in different areas?

I thought at first this was a thread suggesting we have little sections of the dance floor set aside for dancers who want to 'clump around'. Alternatively that it was about congestion in an area of the dance floor - eg 'all the hotshots clump together to the right of the stage...'

[David Bailey]

It's your perception. The areas of "no dancing" are areas where they dance stuff you don't like.

OK, but even if you accept that the percentage of "dancers" is pretty constant everywhere, there's still a variation in "clumping" (hey, I like the word) for particular dance styles - at least from a "quality" point of view.

Otherwise, why do half the MJ dancers in the Midlands seem to put up camp in London every weekend?

So my question is still valid - what causes this variation?

OK, it makes sens that the UK's biggest city has a lively partner dance scene. But why is there relatively little in England's other major cities - Birmingham. Liverpool, Manchester - but a lot in, for example, Bristol?

[Lynn]

OK, but even if you accept that the percentage of "dancers" is pretty constant everywhere, there's still a variation in "clumping" (hey, I like the word) for particular dance styles - at least from a "quality" point of view.

Otherwise, why do half the MJ dancers in the Midlands seem to put up camp in London every weekend?

So my question is still valid - what causes this variation?

OK, it makes sens that the UK's biggest city has a lively partner dance scene. But why is there relatively little in England's other major cities - Birmingham. Liverpool, Manchester - but a lot in, for example, Bristol?

I still think its momemtum, or something like that. People need to be attracted to dance in the first place - so there has to be something - it can be a programme like SCD - or it can be an existing vibrant dance scene - they usually need to see some dancing or get told about it by a friend.

Then they look for venues near them to learn to dance. If there aren't venues, or good venues/teachers, nearby then they might give up. (Its not everyone who persists in wanting to learn dances when there are no classes in the same country!)

Its hard for an organiser to set up a new venue in an area with little or no existing dancers. Its hard for a new dancer to learn to dance in an area with little or no existing classes.

That's for entry level I know - but dance scenes always need entry level dancers coming through in order to thrive.

For more experienced dancers the factors are different - they travel because there isn't the style of dancing/teachers/music/etc they are looking for.

[Tessalicious]

OK, it makes sens that the UK's biggest city has a lively partner dance scene. But why is there relatively little in England's other major cities - Birmingham. Liverpool, Manchester - but a lot in, for example, Bristol?

Because they're primitive and don't know what's good for them, whereas the Bristol lot are smart?

Seriously - there's random variation in everything DJ. Try explaining to a group of friendly aliens why there are more people per square inch in London than there are in Brighton.

There are clumps because people gravitate to where there are already more people with similar interests. We're sociable animals like that, innit.

[Twirlie Bird]

Think quality of the teachers / organisers helps.

In hastings we have a MJ class on almost every night of the week, but the teaching is really poor so there is a high turn over of people. Hastings would have a really good MJ scene if the right teachers were in place.

The teacher is so important and not all teachers suit all venues. It really is about matching the classes requirements with the right teacher.

I have a favourite teacher who I think is awesome. They push the class and the moves are always interesting and different. They are the ones that you see being taken into freestyle and used. This particular venue is always packed and the standard of dancing is higher than just a few miles down the road. However when talking to somebody about this teacher the other day they said they didn't like the teaching style, the moves were too complex, the class was too fast. This was at a different venue and obviously if many others thought the same then this particular venue wouldn't be highly successful with this teacher.

Twirlie Bird
-x-

[MartinHarper]

OK, it makes sens that the UK's biggest city has a lively partner dance scene. But why is there relatively little in England's other major cities - Birmingham. Liverpool, Manchester - but a lot in, for example, Bristol?

Where are you getting your statistics for the relative numbers of partner dancers in these different cities?

[StokeBloke]

I have a favourite teacher who I think is awesome. They push the class and the moves are always interesting and different. They {the moves} are the ones that you see being taken into freestyle and used. This particular venue is always packed and the standard of dancing is higher than just a few miles down the road. However when talking to somebody about this teacher the other day they said they didn't like the teaching style, the moves were too complex, the class was too fast.

I struggle to make sense of this point of view too. I have heard people describe brilliant teachers who teach amazing, useful moves that take a little thought to master as too hard. They complain and hanker after the days when they would get taught a different pretzel variation. These are seasoned dancers BTW. Not new folks struggling to keep up.

Why would you want to take part in a lesson that is teaching you to slightly rearrange all the stuff you currently do? I am genuinely baffled by this stance. Does anyone understand why you would think and behave like that?

If you don't want to be challenged and learn new things don't moan, just.... DON'T COME TO THE CLASS! Simple as that. Nobody will mind. Come to the freestyle part and dance the way you have been dancing for the last xx number of years, do your 57 funky pretzel variations, have fun and go home. Maybe I am just being a vicious, thoughtless, eejet, but I really don't understand this moaning mentality - what am I missing here?

[MartinHarper]

I have heard people describe brilliant teachers who teach amazing, useful moves that take a little thought to master as too hard. They complain and hanker after the days when they would get taught a different pretzel variation.

In my mind a brilliant teacher isn't one who teaches amazing moves, but rather one who teaches in an amazing way using basic moves.

[David Bailey]

Where are you getting your statistics for the relative numbers of partner dancers in these different cities?

From the school of I Made It Up On The Spot, where else?

What, you think I'm going to do any actual research on a Friday afternoon?

[MartinHarper]

From the school of I Made It Up On The Spot, where else?

Ahh.

It's going to be difficult to meaningfully discuss the causes of dancer clustering without knowing whether dancer clustering exists. Not that I expect this to stop you trying.

Perhaps later we can discuss the reproductive habits of unicorns?

[Freya]

In scotland you have leroc in Edinburgh and glasgow as well as Ceroc but not in the rest of scotland.

Aberdeen has 3 nights of Ceroc as does Edinburgh but the other cities only have 1 or 2!

Glasgow had 3 but one night closed due to lack of interest!

As for AT it's only in Edinburgh, glasgow and Aberdeen AFAIK

You could probably dance salsa every night of the week in aberdeen...Not sure bout the rest of scotland.

There is Ballroom all over scotland!

There are no real Dancing 'clumps' in Scotland as far as I can see! More just a lack in some places due to size of the city!

I don't know why this is? But I would say that the general standard of dancer at a Regular night in scotland does appear to be quite good so does more necesarily mean better???

I travel to events where I know the quality of dancers is going to be High and if I can afford it! I also go to see and dance with friends!

[David Bailey]

Ahh.

It's going to be difficult to meaningfully discuss the causes of dancer clustering without knowing whether dancer clustering exists. Not that I expect this to stop you trying.

OK, it's not quite like that.

But if you look at something like the After5 map, it looks like there's some "clustering" going on, which doesn't quite match (I reckon) population data - the obvious example is Wales.

However, that's just my very rough impression, and I'm certainly not going to correlate census information or anything...

The "quality" concept is of course subjective - on the other hand, there's some anecdotal evidence to support this view (people who travel from the Midlands to London, for example).

Perhaps later we can discuss the reproductive habits of unicorns?

Hey, you start the thread and I'll contribute