Forum: good or bad for beginners?

[David Bailey]

"Inspired" by here, and by this comment:

One obvious step is to tell newcomers that this forum exists, but I have always been reluctant to do that as I cannot foresee the consequences.

Is reading this forum a good or a bad thing for beginner dancers?

[Icey]

It was a good thing for me because it made me aware of bad things like bouncing hands, death grips and good things like frame, tension and musicality which I had not preiviously heard of. This gave me the oppotunity to start working on them.

[LMC]

It was good for me too for similar reasons - avoiding pitfalls and filling in the gaps.

And making lots of new friends

I wouldn't take someone's standard into account if recommending the forum - it would be their enthusiasm for dancing which would make me decide.

Funny enough, I recommended a beginner on Wednesday to check it out (don't know if he has yet). More beginners would be great - bring some fresh views on old subjects.

Wonder what they think of first move footwork

[Franck]

Is reading this forum a good or a bad thing for beginner dancers?

A good question and on balance, I would say yes!

Some aspects of it might be off putting, but overall, even if we ignore the huge amount of good advice posted, the feeling of being part of a community will be encouraging in the initial months.
Coupled with the fact that experienced dancers are more likely to seek you out as a forumite, and therefore you're more likely to get asked to dance and progress faster!

In fact the more I think of it, the better the forum sounds for beginners But I would, wouldn't I?

[Lynn]

Is reading this forum a good or a bad thing for beginner dancers?

It was definitely good for me - I had been dancing about 4 weeks and was starting to think 'I want to learn more than just moves' and the forum really encouraged me, esp in regard to musical interpretation, that it was a part of MJ that I could progress to when I was ready.

I also had no experienced dancers locally (aside from the folk who were teaching at the time) to observe or talk to, so the forum gave me a chance to 'listen in' on conversations and learn terms and theory that helped me in my learning.

[killingtime]

Well remembering back to when I began I joined the forum pretty much from the start. If I hadn't I probably would have been more likely to stay in my own area for dancing and not attended Southport or the BFG. I wouldn't have known as many of you lovely folk as I do either; and that would be a shame. I think the forum is, in part, is responsible for dancing being my primary hobby rather than something I do occasionally.

So would I recommend the forum to a beginner? Yes.

[robd]

The forum is a terrible thing for productivity at work.

[David Bailey]

Hmmm.

I've just realised, we're not going to get a flood of people posting "Yes, I'm a beginner and I never post on the forum because it's useless..."

Maybe I should have done a poll.

Oh well, I guess the possible disadvantages of the forum from a beginner's POV could be:

• Too scary: all these godlike dancers talking about center of gravity and funky things
• Not relevant: nothing much to tell me about getting started
• Too nasty: all these vicious flamewars (OK, I exaggerate, sue me)
• Too cliquey: all these people talking about, ahem, cliquey things

Any others?

[WittyBird]

Well when I first started I found it a big help. But then I did have Jack Dee helping me as well

Think the forum helped more

But I agree can't get any work done now

[ducasi]

Any others?

Too boring?

[philsmove]

I wish I had been aware of the forum when I was a beginner

It would have made me aware of how many other people shared my interest

Some local dancers tried to pretend the Ceroc mob, were an evil minority

Not a huge, wonderful group of friends I had yet to meet

[Icey]

Some aspects of it might be off putting, but overall, even if we ignore the huge amount of good advice posted, the feeling of being part of a community will be encouraging in the initial months.
Coupled with the fact that experienced dancers are more likely to seek you out as a forumite, and therefore you're more likely to get asked to dance and progress faster!

That's exactly how I have experienced the last 6 months. IMO the improvement in my dancing is because I have been exposed to much more than I would have just by dancing at my local venue.

[ducasi]

I could write so much about my own experience – for me dancing and the forum have gone hand-in-hand – but instead I'll address the question...

It's clear to me that people who come to the forum not knowing what to expect are in for a surprise. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

I think back to my "first-impressions" thread. After about my 4th or 5th week a girl who hadn't danced before posted. Either what had been said on the thread up to that point, or other stuff on the forum had made her consider changing her mind about coming along. She never posted again.

From experience I know that you have to be thick-skinned if you dare to express a naive opinion you've formed. People who might have forgotten what it's like to be a beginner are liable to put you back in your place sharpish.

Many of the good points have already been expressed. To me, as a beginner, the most important one was the getting to know local dancers who helped and encouraged me in what was an intimidating world.

The only thing that disappoints me with this is that although there are many forum members all round Scotland, there's not many that post at all regularly. Fortunately there are quite a few friendly lurkers...

I'd encourage all beginners to read the forum.

[Jazz_Shoes (Ash)]

Well, for me the forum helped ALOT, without it I probably would have never came along to Ceroc, and it would have become one of those things that i'd considered but never followed through.

However, when talking to a few Glasgow Cerocers I asked them if they had had a look. They said yes, but wouldn't post as there was far too much arguing and serious debate, or something along those lines. I'll admit that I don't post in the more serious threads or those in which there is alot of debate going on as whenever I have i've been usually challenged about what i have written down and "shouted at" so to speak. I usually get scared off cause i'm just a wee shy retiring type who tries to keep out of debate outside the forum aswell as on it. As i'm on here for fun I choose to not post in those type of threads. As ducasi said, you really do need to have thick skin to post sometimes. So, I dunno I think depending on the person and what threads they read I wouldn't think that the forum would'nt always encourage beginners...

[Caro]

Hmmm.

I've just realised, we're not going to get a flood of people posting "Yes, I'm a beginner and I never post on the forum because it's useless..."

Maybe I should have done a poll.

Oh well, I guess the possible disadvantages of the forum from a beginner's POV could be:

• Too scary: all these godlike dancers talking about center of gravity and funky things
  

Any others?

indeed... although I am not a beginner at ceroc anymore, I am a beginner on this forum and yeah, it's kind of scary to post stuff here, it seems like all you guys know each other so well and are all best pals and stuff... feels a bit like being an... 'intrusion'?
anyway I guess I'll get over that

I did learn an awful lot of things though... like how terrible it is to be bouncy white and black shoes (pity though, I thought they were pretty!) and other stuffs! hey thanks for the tips then... I guess it might avoid me being someday the subject of a post like 'guys, I saw that terribly funny laughable thing the other day: there was that intermediate girl, not even a very good follower, with those white and black shoes and she was bouncing all around the dancefloor ' 'go to the venue, you gotta check it out!!!! '

so hey... thanks for the tips again

[bigdjiver]

One obvious step is to tell newcomers that this forum exists, but I have always been reluctant to do that as I cannot foresee the consequences.

The consequences that I worry about are for the venue. I have experienced elsewhere on another forum an adverse comment causing a disproportionate and unjustified bad reaction. As long term forumites know I am prepared to defend my views with vigor and with facts, but to do so in this case would harm the venue involved.
It is one thing to talk about, for example, yankers, without having to contemplate that every beginner that I danced with might worry that I was talking about them.

[Gadget]

... I guess it might avoid me being someday the subject of a post like ~

I think that this may be half the worry of some 'lurkers' - that the subjects being discussed and the "Don't you justy hate it when a dancer..." is directed at them.
It's bad enough when the teacher from stage says stuff like "I see some of you doing this..." and you alwas think was that me? am I doing that? must be me. {or maybe that is just me } But you then take this level of paranoia onto the web and have someone poke holes in not only what you are saying, but how you say it...

I hope that the forum is good for beginners. When posting, I certainly try to think on how I would read something if I was a beginner or if I was new to the forum and phrase things accordingly.

I have recently been told by a beginner that some of the stuff I have put on here has been of use to them - - for me, that make it worth it... and a good thing .



{On a similar note, this is an old poll: Has the forum helped your dancing? with posts from May03-June04 perhaps a revised one is due?}

[Icey]

I think that this may be half the worry of some 'lurkers' - that the subjects being discussed and the "Don't you justy hate it when a dancer..." is directed at them.

I've been concerned that I do some of the truly terrible things that get discussed on here but my thinking is that if I do them and recognise that I am doing them I can start to work on not doing them.
I don't post on the 'serious' threads very often because I find it difficult to express my view in an articulate manner that conveys my point, but I'm starting to get there.

[ChrisA]

I'd like to contrast two very different attitudes, if I may.

In the red corner, we have the ubiquitous Gadget....

It's bad enough when the teacher from stage says stuff like "I see some of you doing this..." and you alwas think was that me? am I doing that? must be me. {or maybe that is just me } But you then take this level of paranoia...

So it's now a bad thing for the teacher to watch the class, observe mistakes being made, and correct them? For one of the students to do a little self-reflection, to see if he or she is making the mistakes is now paranoia?

Give me a break

Where in the blue corner, we have the fabulous Icey:

I've been concerned that I do some of the truly terrible things that get discussed on here but my thinking is that if I do them and recognise that I am doing them I can start to work on not doing them.

I think there is nothing to add to this, except:

[Lynn]

Too cliquey: all these people talking about, ahem, cliquey things

I could see this being something that would put people off, (though its hard to comment on that from a general perspective as for a long time I was the only person in NI posting on here) - I only joined because I recognised a couple of names from the holiday I had been on and first seen MJ. It also helped that on about my second post someone said 'oh you are going to be at X venue, come and say hi' which came across as friendly and inclusive. But if a newcomer isn't at any venues that are talked about on here, then they aren't able to contribute to those threads at all, and there are an awful lot of threads about social events.

Of course everyone is very friendly and inclusive when we all meet up at events, but that maybe isn't always evident to a beginner dancing reading posts here. So we need to make a special effort to be welcoming to new dancers posting on here.