Southport Jive Weekender Poll

[Lory]

To the best of my knowledge, no-one has moderated any thread to stop people spouting off. And that should be fairly obvious from the free range of feelings expressed in this and the other thread.

I don't like being called a wan*er!

I know feelings are running high but I want to point out, 'we' (moderators) are a bunch of independent minds, who passionately believe in FREE SPEECH!

Nothing has been censored, can't people tell

[David Bailey]

I don't like being a wan*er!

Ahem.

Of course, there should be a "called" in that sentence

[Lory]

Ahem.

Of course, there should be a "called" in that sentence

See, I could delete this post but I wont, as I think people need a bit of 'light relief' just now!

[DavidY]

I've noticed that a few people have put comments on the lovely FB group, saying that their posts have been deleted from this forum, with the statement that the moderating team are a group of jackbooted self-pleasurers, just on the verge of invading Poland.

To the best of my knowledge, no-one has moderated any thread to stop people spouting off.

I'm guessing that the posts were on separate threads which were merged into the "February Blush" thread?

Do people get an automatic email/PM if that happens?

[David Bailey]

I'm guessing that the posts were on separate threads which were merged into the "February Blush" thread?

Possibly - although I don't think any of that happened either. Or, possibly, it's just a lie.

Do people get an automatic email/PM if that happens?

Yup.

As far as I know, the only thread-merging that's happened with regard to SP was when I did my "Stop all these bleedin' Southport threads" rant a couple of weeks back.

[DavidY]

As far as I know, the only thread-merging that's happened with regard to SP was when I did my "Stop all these bleedin' Southport threads" rant a couple of weeks back.

I think that this post (and I suspect the one above it)

and also this post

were both in their own, separate threads at one point.

I remember at least one of them (and I think the titles also support this - they aren't the same as the rest of the thread and most people don't bother changing them.)

Do people get an automatic email/PM if that happens?

Yup

...and does it still work after all the forum updating that's happened recently? I seem to remember that some email notifications were broken?

[David Bailey]

I think that this post (and I suspect the one above it)

and also this post

were both in their own, separate threads at one point.

Ah, yes - possibly. Yes, maybe. Makes sense.

But tidying up a thread is hardly like gassing 6 million Jews, is it?

...and does it still work after all the forum updating that's happened recently? I seem to remember that some email notifications were broken?

Ummm. Dunno. possibly not.

I've just tested it and it may not do. I'll raise it...

Look, stop being so sensible, all right?

[Bluey]

In 2005, we had about 3-4 large weekenders for MJers.

In 2009 we'll have at least 10 large weekenders for MJers.

This seems like a Good Thing to me as a punter.

HI- just trying to clarify???
in 2005 there was two JA Southports & 2 Francos Cambers + his Butlins makes 5???
IN 2009 we have how many organisors for the 10????

[Minnie M]

HI- just trying to clarify???
in 2005 there was two JA Southports & 2 Francos Cambers + his Butlins makes 5???
IN 2009 we have how many organisors for the 10????

What about Party Weekender ? They had FOUR in 2005 - 2 in Weymouth/Warmwell + 2 in Wales (or don't they class as big enough)

[Bluey]

What about Party Weekender ? They had FOUR in 2005 - 2 in Weymouth/Warmwell + 2 in Wales (or don't they class as big enough)

depends on what "Big" is classed as over ie 1,000+, thats how I think it was orginally meant

[Filthy Monkey]

Good Grief...they are dusting off the Senior members on this one..

I think you are missing the point here....They would'nt have to announce new venues and dates if "Ceroc" had'nt done the dirty on them now would they.....

Do keep up

No, I think you're missing the point This was a business negotiation and somebody lost. It wasn't personal, it was business, plain and simple. Mike Ellard wanted to grow his market share, build the Ceroc brand and increase his profits. He's doing what any good business man does. He's not in business to make the competition happy, He's in business to make money. It's simple economics!

You're clearly not a fan of the Ceroc organisation, but ask yourself this. Who introduced most of the people who attend Southport to dancing in the first place? I think you'll find that the majority of them learned through Ceroc venues, so I'd say that Ceroc, as an organisation, has every right to capitilise on the market it has created! Perhaps more relevant to you is to question whether or not you would be operating as an independent modern jive teacher if Ceroc had not made modern jive as popular as it is today...

[Andy McGregor]

Perhaps more relevant to you is to question whether or not you would be operating as an independent modern jive teacher if Ceroc had not made modern jive as popular as it is today...

Both Sproggs and I did not learn from Ceroc. Ceroc didn't come to the seaside until I'd been running my own classes for ages. When they opened I announced their opening night because I'm nice like that.

I'm giving this a great deal of thought. But my gut feel is to have nothing to do with Ceroc. Stop attending events where Ceroc teachers or DJs are working, etc. Ceroc have had it their way too long and have become bullies. The only thing that's stopping me is that I'm committed to Adjudicate Britroc and Gordon and Sally are working there. Gordon is a Ceroc teacher who has somehow been allowed to be involved. I think I'll sleep on it a bit more before I draw a line in the sand. The other thing I'd have to do is find another forum

[TA Guy]

You're clearly not a fan of the Ceroc organisation, but ask yourself this. Who introduced most of the people who attend Southport to dancing in the first place? I think you'll find that the majority of them learned through Ceroc venues, so I'd say that Ceroc, as an organisation, has every right to capitilise on the market it has created! Perhaps more relevant to you is to question whether or not you would be operating as an independent modern jive teacher if Ceroc had not made modern jive as popular as it is today...

I think the "Who did the legwork to get all these people dancing in the first place" is a very salient point. Not that Jive Addiction have done anything wrong, but they fed off the hard work of others who attracted dancers to MJ, and taught these dancers, in a lot of cases, to a 'weekender type level'.

As I say, I don't think JA did anything wrong, they just employed standard business tactics, to steal other peoples customers if it's cheaper than creating your own.
Likewise, Ceroc have taken a similar business decision to maximize their profits by stealing back a lot of those dancers.


I get that people are upset, but there is a whiff of hypocritical double standards being employed here by some of the more extreme JA supporters.

[Billi Wiz]

"As I say, I don't think JA did anything wrong, they just employed standard business tactics, to steal other peoples customers if it's cheaper than creating your own."

What complete & utter libellous twaddle!

So John & Wes are guilty of dubious Business practices... That is something I would be careful of repeating - Those guys are very well respected in the MJ community!

[Double Trouble]

But tidying up a thread is hardly like gassing 6 million Jews, is it?

You gotta admire those Nazi's though, I mean, bloody clever of them to gas exactly 6 million. I wonder if they counted them by pairs of shoes, gold teeth or as they were being shovelled in to a pit?

[Lee Bartholomew]

"As I say, I don't think JA did anything wrong, they just employed standard business tactics, to steal other peoples customers if it's cheaper than creating your own."

What complete & utter libellous twaddle!

So John & Wes are guilty of dubious Business practices... That is something I would be careful of repeating - Those guys are very well respected in the MJ community!

'Tiss true though, but not as twisted as you put it.

Most Indy clubs rely on Ceroc for a flow of punters to their venues or on feral CTA trained teachers to teach.

If there was no Ceroc, I doubt there would be a JA. JA saw a space in the market for a better product than was currently being offered. Rolled out their product (which is a great one at that) and said to the dancing community "come to us". JA don't do classes so the amount of people they have introduced to dancing is going to be very small. They have relied on all the Indy orgs and ceroc dancers to make their product what it is.

I wouldn't go as far as saying they are stealing punters from Ceroc as they all go back to Ceroc after. Borrow or invite is prob a better term.

As I said before, I am a big fan of JA's events, but im not anti Ceroc either.

[Gerry]

HI- just trying to clarify???
in 2005 there was two JA Southports & 2 Francos Cambers + his Butlins makes 5???
IN 2009 we have how many organisors for the 10????

What about Party Weekender ? They had FOUR in 2005 - 2 in Weymouth/Warmwell + 2 in Wales (or don't they class as big enough)

depends on what "Big" is classed as over ie 1,000+, thats how I think it was orginally meant

I think the "Who did the legwork to get all these people dancing in the first place" is a very salient point. Not that Jive Addiction have done anything wrong, but they fed off the hard work of others who attracted dancers to MJ, and taught these dancers, in a lot of cases, to a 'weekender type level'.

As I say, I don't think JA did anything wrong, they just employed standard business tactics, to steal other peoples customers if it's cheaper than creating your own.
Likewise, Ceroc have taken a similar business decision to maximize their profits by stealing back a lot of those dancers.


I get that people are upset, but there is a whiff of hypocritical double standards being employed here by some of the more extreme JA supporters.

Surely JA saw a gap in the market in 2004 / 2005 to start their own Weekender up in Southport, it was a considerable distance from Franco's weekenders in Camber and Bognor. Due to the distances involved they were not in direct competition and the market could stand another event.

Obviously all weekenders at that time drew dancers from the MJ community which is sourced from the Majority which will be cerocers.

Southports position which allows Southerners and the Scots to come down and play was a major draw, as was the position of the Blues Room. The Blues room being the focal / meeting point of the whole weekend.

I don't understand TA's point about stealing customers, Franco started the weekender craze, JA took the weekender craze a step further.

Natural progression was for Ceroc to get into the Market, which it has done so.

I as a customer enjoy choice, I thought Southport was the dogs Boll*cks.

But at the same time I think the Brean weekender has alot to offer and is getting better.

Lastly as a customer I believe competition is healthy it keeps the Ceroc organisation and independants on their toes which means that I will get a good product if not a great product.

If we get to a point where there is no competition I am unsure whether the product will go down in quality

[David Bailey]

NHe's not in business to make the competition happy, He's in business to make money. It's simple economics!

Actually, Mike already made money before taking over Ceroc - and he was teaching at a pittance for quite a few years before that. So I think he genuinely also wants to promote dancing.

There's a lot easier ways to make money than by running dance events.

You're clearly not a fan of the Ceroc organisation, but ask yourself this. Who introduced most of the people who attend Southport to dancing in the first place? I think you'll find that the majority of them learned through Ceroc venues, so I'd say that Ceroc, as an organisation, has every right to capitilise on the market it has created! Perhaps more relevant to you is to question whether or not you would be operating as an independent modern jive teacher if Ceroc had not made modern jive as popular as it is today...

Yeah. see, this is where we disagree.

As I said here , I don't buy these "moral ownership" arguments - from either side of the camp.

[David Bailey]

HI- just trying to clarify???
in 2005 there was two JA Southports & 2 Francos Cambers + his Butlins makes 5???
IN 2009 we have how many organisors for the 10????

Fair enough - I'm just guessing at the numbers.

But my point is, however you slice it, there's many more large-scale weekender events running now than there were a few years back. I'd also say that most people would agree the events are generally better-quality overall, yes?

And, I think this increase in quantity and quality is largely due to Ceroc entering the market.

So, so far, overall, Ceroc has been good for the punter looking for a large-scale MJ weekender. This may change, fair enough - but so far, it's been good. Anyone disagree?

[stewart38]

how about we all put a deposit on for southport and see if they willl give it back if maybe 1000 people did it they may say yes..

could be worth a try

Did anyone understand this ?

Ironic if I end up as a translator

What a deposit on the forth coming , 'Ceroc event', at Southport in Feb, when lines are open ? Then when a 1000 people have paid their deposit they all ask for it back ?(see DB or C for further translation if required)

Southport Feb will sell out within 2 weeks my bet

I think

A bit of perspective please...Ceroc have not and will not take over the world.

2003

United Kingdom

2008

United Kingdom Northern Ireland Ireland

France Italy Spain UAE Canada Australlia Hong Kong USA


2013

?