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[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by DavidB
What is an arm roll?

Last night it was righthand to right hand. Gent draws lady to him by manouvering (a spell checker would be good) his elbow inside hers. This means that the gents pointy elbow is moving towards the ladies face. My arms are longer than most ladies, so it is usually very awkward for me.

last night this was used to pivot the lady into a Mambo step. I have no trouble pivoting into the Mambo step in freestyle without the elbow thingmy.

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Chicklet
Don't know the arm roll either but could the crucifix be what I call the "Lydia"??
And am I the only one who really thought it was called that?
Agree it's not an every day move and have only ever seen it taught in a workshop and I'm just remembering as I type that it was a Vicktor and Lydia workshop LOL.

Agree this is more of a special occasion move, I'm not exactly shy but I wouldn't be doing this with every Tom, Dick and Harry on the floor, indeed have turned myself out of it when invited to "get down" a few times before now.

Question, was it taught as an "invitational move"?
C

Someone else calls it the "Jolly Roger".

Michaela teaches it as an invitational move, with get down and slide one leg back between the guys legs as an alternative.

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Rachel
Oh - just read this again, cos it had got me thinking ....

When you say, OTT moves for the second week in a row .... Marc wasn't there last night, but he did teach Bedford last week, and I'd be very surprised if he had done any moves like that. I wasn't there, but I do usually go through his classes with him and 'vet' any of the moves, if necessary.

He certainly didn't do the crucifix or the foot between the mans' legs. Is there another move that he did which you think was unsuitable? Please let us know, cos feedback like that is vital.
Rachel

Whoops! I forgot, I was not at Bedford last week, I went to Rugby for the new venue launch instead instead. Recently would have been more accurate.

Perhaps the ladies had heard I wasn't there the previous week was another explanation for the influx?

Apologies for the error.

[Gus]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
Last night it was righthand to right hand. Gent draws lady to him by manouvering (a spell checker would be good) his elbow inside hers. This means that the gents pointy elbow is moving towards the ladies face. My arms are longer than most ladies, so it is usually very awkward for me.

This is a bit strange ... at least two of these moves sound like the moves Viktor and Lydia were introducing in their 2002/3 tour Must admit that they are not moves I'd generaly teach in an open class forum .... and I hope that Teachers are acknowledging the source of these moves

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Gus
This is a bit strange ... at least two of these moves sound like the moves Viktor and Lydia were introducing in their 2002/3 tour Must admit that they are not moves I'd generaly teach in an open class forum .... and I hope that Teachers are acknowledging the source of these moves

I remeber a similar move taught by Adam at a UCP workshop up here, and I'm sure that another "elbow over" move has been taught from the stage while I've been there...

[jivecat]

Originally posted by Rachel
That's probably because they'd heard Marc had been teaching there the last couple of weeks!!! (Though not last night - unfortunately.)

[I'm joking, of course ... I think!
Rachel

Must be ladies with excellent taste! When's he teaching at Leicester again, Rachel?

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Gus
This is a bit strange ... at least two of these moves sound like the moves Viktor and Lydia were introducing in their 2002/3 tour Must admit that they are not moves I'd generaly teach in an open class forum .... and I hope that Teachers are acknowledging the source of these moves

I have been to several Viktor classes and never heard him tell the source of a move. I doubt anybody knows the original source of most. Probably most are the result of multiple independent invention. Once you have demonstrated a move in public it is public domain. All of us dancers have benefited from this fact, we just have to accept ours being copied is payback.

I very much doubt that Blitz teachers acknowledge how many moves came from Ceroc, Leroc, etc

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
and I hope that Teachers are acknowledging the source of these moves

Which source would that be? I was taught the arm roll in the US in 2001 by Angel Figueroa. (I just didn't know what it was called.) He said it was a common Salsa move.

Unless a teacher goes to the trouble to prove that they have invented a move, then it is fair to assume that someone has done the before.

All a teacher can do is acknowledge where they got the move from, and I would only bother if it was a particularly impressive or unusual move.


And now I know what the move is, I'd be interested to see how it is being taught. It is a potentially very dangerous move for the lady.

David

[Gus]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
I very much doubt that Blitz teachers acknowledge how many moves came from Ceroc, Leroc, etc

Au contraire mon ami. Blitz do incorporate moves that have been harvested from other instructors ... but it is general practice to credit where they were first picked up ... a number of moves are taught as 'Viktor' moves ... though as DaveB correctly pints out Viktor may well not be the genesis of these moves ... BUT if he was the one who introduced many of us to these moves, then he has the right to be credited.

In my own workshops I give due credit to moves either taught or seen performed by N&N, Dan Baines and Roger Chin ... aswell as move sbrought back from NZ. The osmosis of new moves through the dancing community is healthy .... I just have a query if a move was taught as an 'official' Ceroc or Blitz move and by so doing the teaching orgnanisation sought to take credit for the move ... BUT I'm not saying they do..... (before I get flamed)

[Gus]

Originally posted by DavidB
Which source would that be? I was taught the arm roll in the US in 2001 by Angel Figueroa. (I just didn't know what it was called.) He said it was a common Salsa move.

Spot on ... my original statement was clearly flawed. what I should have said is that credit could be given to the teacher who introduced you to the move.

And now I know what the move is, I'd be interested to see how it is being taught. It is a potentially very dangerous move for the lady.

David

think this was a key point. The move is potentialy disasterous and is one (IMHO) that should not be taught outside a workshop. the first time I came across it was at Ceroc Cricklewood .... someone had seen the move, decided to teach it from stage and managed to scare half the audience sh*tless. It was only when I saw Viktor do the move a few months later I realised what the move was actualy supposed to look like

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by DavidB
And now I know what the move is, I'd be interested to see how it is being taught. It is a potentially very dangerous move for the lady.

I was taught as well as it can be from a stage to a class of around 100, with great emphasis on safety, as one would expect from Michaela. She knew it was an experienced crowd, and the beginners had been separated off into a refresher class. Nevertheless I "cheated", and did the move the way I do it in freestyle, with no arm roll. It is one of the moves I am garnering together for my blues set. Incidentally, Peter Phillips. (Lounge Lizard) also taught the arm roll at the Jook Jive venue.

[DavidY]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
Another innovation that I had not seen before unveiled at Bedford last night - this time in moving on. For some reason women from miles away that I normally see twice a year descended on us in droves. The movers on were split into packs at the end of each set of double rows.

At Nottingham last night, in the Beginners' class, they also tried another way of moving on. There were about 9 spare women and they were asked to intersperse themselves between women with partners. Normally they all line up in one place near the start of the first row.

Results:
* a bit of confusion initially (as you'd expect with any new method)
* when men arrived wanting to dance, they couldn't find any partner-less women to dance with
* when the numbers started to even out, the teacher had to ask a couple of times where any spare women were who were still left partnerless in the rows (eventually there were men left over)

IMO not a success - it may work better when there is a big imbalance, but where the numbers are reasonably even, the old-fashioned way seems to work better.

David

[Lynn]

Originally posted by DavidY
At Nottingham last night, in the Beginners' class, they also tried another way of moving on. There were about 9 spare women and they were asked to intersperse themselves between women with partners.

This is the way it works in the salsa class I go to - the class is in a circle and it allows later comers to slot into the circle - but sometimes there is a queue of several women waiting together. We tried it once in jive class but it didn't really work. We just as often have extra men rather than women.

Not that I'm complaining!

[bigdjiver]

The interspersed move-on was tried and abandoned at Bedford over a year ago. That experience led to some pessimism about the new end rows loop system, but it worked fine.

[stewart38]

So can anyone now list the new beginners moves ?

[Bigger Andy]

Originally posted by stewart38
So can anyone now list the new beginners moves ?

Stewart, see Funky Si's comment of 9th March. He said ...

Originally posted by Funky Si
I shall see if we can get a list of the new beginners moves on the Cerockent site, as I think you have a good point!

If this happens, everyone will be able to find out what they are

However, perhaps Funky Si doesn't even know what they all are as the Ceroc Kent website still hasn't been updated !

[bigdjiver]

I was a bit surprised to find that the ladies were expected to do the "hands on the man's chest" as a beginner move on Monday night. My experience is that many ladies find this embarrassing, although I saw no problem in this particular class.

Was it really taught throughout the land?

Did anybody see any adverse reactions?

[DavidY]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
I was a bit surprised to find that the ladies were expected to do the "hands on the man's chest" as a beginner move on Monday night. My experience is that many ladies find this embarrassing, although I saw no problem in this particular class.

Was it really taught throughout the land?

No, not even taught throughout Ceroc Central. At Nottingham on Monday we had an In & Out in Beginners' Moves, but no hands on chests.

[DavidY]

Looks like the list of Ceroc "Beginners" Moves may have changed again... (or at least they're trying out further changes)

Did anyone else do a Shoulder Drop (?) at a Ceroc beginners' class last night?

(Think the routine was something like First move (Push spin), Shoulder Drop, Shoulder Slide, Cerocspin, although I'm not sure I remembered the order correctly.)

Are there any more new Beginners moves?

[bigdjiver]

I joined the class late. Shoulder drop ??
It was a trip down memory lane, seeking help from ladies with only a few lessons experience.

Even more so than the Ceroc spin, I do not think that this should be a beginner move.

Apart from which, one of my pleasures is looking at the ladies, not turning my back on them.