Specious arguments, no. 1: Children

[TheTramp]

{ODA Mode most definitely on}

Teenagers! How do you turn them from selfish introverted monsters into something more human??

It sounds like we have identical daughters

Maybe by smacking them when they were naughty when they were young??

All previous generations of children were (potentially) smacked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's really only the last generation of children that have had legal protection. Yet, it hasn't really seriously damaged, either mentally or physically any (all?) of us - yes, I too was smacked too on occasion (but never deserved it of course ). Maybe that's why these days, children seem to get away with so much more than they used to? Lack of discipline?
{ODA Mode off}

Not being a parent, I haven't really ever had to confront the decision or think about it too much. I just found it interesting that two people who've said that they don't think that smacking is the way to go, have then almost immediately followed it up by saying that their children are selfish, introverted monsters (although, I did take both of those comments - especially Andy's - with a huge pinch of salt). Hence, most definitely said in an ODA mode

Trampy

[Andy McGregor]

, have then almost immediately followed it up by saying that their children are selfish, introverted monsters (although, I did take both of those comments - especially Andy's - with a huge pinch of salt). Hence, most definitely said in an ODA mode

Trampy

My 16 year old would be better described as sulky and uncommunicative when doing something she doesn't want to - rather than introverted - but that could easily be mistaken for introversion.

But when she's getting her own way or wants to get her own way she is delightful ...

[Gadget]

My 16 year old would be better described as sulky and uncommunicative when doing something she doesn't want to - rather than introverted - but that could easily be mistaken for introversion.

But when she's getting her own way or wants to get her own way she is delightful ...

But that's just women!!!

[Gadget]

{damn it... think before posting... think before posting...}

[Tiggerbabe]

Nah, she would appear to be perfectly normal - my son will be 15 on Tuesday - I seldom get more than a one word answer from him, unless he's looking for money or a lift

[Lory]

Advices oh wise forumites - please!!!


Elaine

Hi Elaine, as a mum of 2 teenagers myself I know it's a toughie but do try to find the good in her, praise her all you can, and try to ignore some of the annoying but harmless things. Don't run her down in front of her mates or siblings, instead tell them how proud you are of her, she might not feel so inclined to upset you!

Encourage her to be open and share what's REALLY going on in her life without the fear of you judging her unfavourably, if she knows it's a dead certainty she's going to get told off, she'll clam up and you wont find out anything.
Like Andy said, encourage her friends into you home, make them VERY welcome! Learn to accept, she IS normal, that her behaviour is sadly typical of the average teenagers!

Try to take an interest in what makes her tick, even if it means reading up about some obscure goth band! (she'll be impressed )

Ask her for advise on things sometimes (even if you don't need it), I bet she's more clued up on today's hair products and makeup than you are!

Also think there are times where you have to be a little bit sneaky, like if you get wind of something that they might be planning, that might not meet with your approval, instead of coming down hard and saying RIGHT, I know what your planning and it's NOT going to happen!
Make something up and just sling it casually into a conversation, eg, I heard of a girl on the TV doing 'blah blah' the other day and she got into terrible trouble, (listing your concerns).......I know you'd never do anything like that! Cos your far too sensible and good! Imagine what her mother must have gone through (thoughful sigh), I know you wouldn't want to put me through that, etc. And that's why I'm so proud of YOU!

And lastly, lighten up a little....

Remember when you were that age, I bet some of your BEST and fondest memories are ones of when you were up to no good! I know mine are!

[Lory]

my son will be 15 on Tuesday - I seldom get more than a one word answer from him, unless he's looking for money or a lift

Oi! You lot! Be grateful, my two never shut up!

Don't know where they get it from!

[MartinHarper]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's really only the last generation of children that have had legal protection.

Well, as this thread notes, "reasonable chastisement" is still a defence for parents, so this generation has roughly the same protection as others in that sense. The big difference is schools: corporal punishment in schools is forbidden.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Well, as this thread notes, "reasonable chastisement" is still a defence for parents, so this generation has roughly the same protection as others in that sense. The big difference is schools: corporal punishment in schools is forbidden.

more than that - a teacher cant even touch a child anymore without being threatened with assault charges. Its funny, but in the schools where the children really need the discipline they are much more aware of their rights over adults and in effect get LESS discipline than in some of the better schools.

[jivecat]

My daughter is now 16 and half and recently caught nits again! This time from a 17 year old, so I don't think hormonal changes work on the little blighters (nits that is, not teenagers!).


Elaine

Looks like I'll have to scrap that theory, then. Thanks for the data!

[Andy McGregor]

Looks like I'll have to scrap that theory, then. Thanks for the data!

I think the hormonal thing only applies to boys. Once a boy reaches puberty I'm told he's unlikely to get nits - then again, maybe those nits can't stand being near the baggy trousers teenage boys wear

[ElaineB]

Thanks for the advice Guys, especially Lory!

I must admit that yesterday I probably let the initial irritation get in the way of what should have been a very pleasant day and could have rethought my reactions to what I perceived to be a continual assault of 'teenage' behaviour!

As for Tramp - interesting thoughts! When I said 'introverted', I really meant towards myself and her father. No, I don't believe in smacking as I think that an explanation, punishment (withdrawing crisps or video's when she was younger!) worked far better. I am glad to say that she appears to have high moral values (she will turn into a traffic warden I am sure!) and is popular with her peers. She also managed five A's and five B's in her GCSE's, despite by her own admission, very little revision!

I just want to be a friend to my daughter, to pick up the pieces if need be and offer the love and support that she deserves! Just very difficult when she seems to consider grunting to be the best form of communication (to both parents, but not her friends!).

Elaine

[Lory]

I just want to be a friend to my daughter, to pick up the pieces if need be and offer the love and support that she deserves! Just very difficult when she seems to consider grunting to be the best form of communication (to both parents, but not her friends!).

Elaine

Aww that's lovely and all we could ever strive to want to be, as a Mum!

The most important thing, is to tell her just that, she might only grunt her acknowledgement but you can bet it sinks further in that it appears to!

[Andy McGregor]

I just want to be a friend to my daughter, to pick up the pieces if need be and offer the love and support that she deserves! Just very difficult when she seems to consider grunting to be the best form of communication (to both parents, but not her friends!).

Elaine

I think that, at this age, they seem to define themselves through their friends and their relationships with them. I try to stay in that loop by getting to know their friends. But I've got to be careful not to work too hard at it - it's a difficult and very fine line to tread.

[Emma]

I heard once about a theory that headlice prefer childrens's heads: adults don't get them because of the change in hormones/chemistry which the bugs don't like. DianaS said her son no longer got them at secondary school - could it be he'd reached puberty and this is the reason? Perhaps a secondary school teacher could tell us if the usual infant head lice epidemic still happens when they get older.

Older children tend not to get headlice mainly because they have less head to head contact (especially boys). Also headlice like clean hair, and adolescent boys don't

It's a myth that adults don't get headlice. One of the major problems with the headlice epidemic in this contry is that parents tend to treat their children and not themselves (present company excepted, I'm sure...) thus providing a nice safe haven for nits on their own heads. (Mine itches now!)

-This information brought to you by 'daughter of a nit-nurse(retired)'

On the subject of smacking - I was smacked, and it didn't do *me* any harm....hang on a minute....didn't it? How can I measure that - I've never met the unsmacked me . She might have been better adjusted, more confident, and rich (I can dream). I personally believe that there are other forms of discipline which are probably just as effective as a smack, if not moreso. As a teacher I am not allowed to smack, and discipline has never broken down in my classroom (honest). I also realise that it's different with your own kids and that under extreme stress any parent could be forgiven for resorting to smacking. However this doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to avoid it.

As an aside, I went on a course the other day and was told that they have discovered that at a certain stage of development teenagers lack the chemicals which make them motivated. Hardly a surprise to any parent, but perhaps it might help to know they aren't doing it on purpose (well..not ALL the time!!).