Strategies to keep beginners

[Gus]

Just found out that our local Ceroc club is giving away eight weeks of free entry to new members (as well as making their next freestyle free ). Is this a national Ceroc campaign? Has Ceroc finally turned into an altruistic charity or is this a localised attempt to keep beginners?

I wonder if it will work. Are beginners concerned about the cash outlay (and face it, £6 a week is a lot of money for something that can be scary) or are other factors more important?

[Andy McGregor]

Seems a bit cheap to me. They must have a long-term strategy. I wonder what it is

I've not seen this down here. And it costs £7 to get into some of our local Ceroc venues - that's £56 worth of freebies. I think I'll be a beginner too.

Seriously though, how will the regulars that pay £6 or £7 a night feel if beginners, who they are expected to have charity dances with, are getting it for free?

[cerocmetro]

Seems a bit cheap to me. They must have a long-term strategy. I wonder what it is

I've not seen this down here. And it costs £7 to get into some of our local Ceroc venues - that's £56 worth of freebies. I think I'll be a beginner too.

Seriously though, how will the regulars that pay £6 or £7 a night feel if beginners, who they are expected to have charity dances with, are getting it for free?

Why pay £6 or £7, we at CerocMetro offer it for £5.
Also we offer incentives to newcomers. We also offer free entries to existing dancers who bring along newcomers.

What is wrong with offering free for a few weeks to encourage new blood. The life cycle of the average dancer is 7 months, we have to think of the future.

If existing dancers commited to two years, I would offer them free entries for a few weeks every year. It has to work both ways surely.

I sell annual passes, they work out at about £3 a night for the people who have them, how cheap do you want it?


Adam

[MartinHarper]

If it's Nationwide, it's not got as far as Ceroc Cheltenham yet.

Beginners have simpler lessons, teach good leading, following and floorcraft skills to advanced dancers, and aren't going to become part of the competition any time soon. Free lessons is a good start, but charitable advanced dancers should really be leaving tips too.

[philsmove]

Come to Bristol you can get a LeRoc lesson for £4

Most of the classes here do incentives

(e.g. bring a friend and get in free)

but the last The classes I attended did not need incentives; I don’t think you could have got another couple on the floor

The “issue “ in Bristol at the moment is keeping the interest of advanced dancers

And yes Adam, having watch the CerocMetro team at W S Mare

some of us are thinking of moving to Stevenage

Or at least forming a team down here

[Andy McGregor]

What is wrong with offering free for a few weeks to encourage new blood. The life cycle of the average dancer is 7 months, we have to think of the future.

I think offering free classes for beginners is brilliant. The only issue is the expectation of the established dancers. They pay full-price and help the beginners - well I do, anyway. I suppose some appreciation for those helpful established dancers would be nice.

I knew Adam charged £5 for the Jive Masters nights but didn't realise it was the same in all his venues. Well done Adam So why are some Ceroc classes charging 40% more than Ceroc Metro

Just to stay on-topic: what other strategies have been used to keep beginners coming back?

[Gus]

Just to stay on-topic: what other strategies have been used to keep beginners coming back?

Well we tried something a bit radical ..... using experienced and well trained Blitz Jivers (aka Taxi Dancers), paying attention to them all night, putting the revision session in a separate room, making sure they dont feel alone and talking to them as they leave Yeah .. I know thats what you would expect as minimum standard but how many clubs have crew that havent got clue how to coach beginners? As an additional strategy, while we've been starting up, we've also had a team of at least 7 crew on hand each week and we've using a qualified MJ instructor to lead the revision class. So far seem to be working

[Tiggerbabe]

Well we tried something a bit radical .....

Not sure if you're taking the Michael here, Gus, but.............
You're right, I don't think that's radical at all - and whilst having the revision class in a separate room is desirable, it's only possible if your venue has another room you can use.
Up here, the revision class is always in another part of the venue, separate room in Stirling, Glasgow Uni (IIRC), and O'Donaghues. The Jumpin Jaks venues have loads of space available for the taxi dancers to use, the Invercarse, Dundee has space away from the main dance floor too. In fact the only venue I'm aware of that has the revision class on the same floor as the main dancers is 'Culter (and the dance floor there is SOOOOOOO long that it's not a problem at all)
Franck also has cd players available, for the taxis, so that the class can practice to music, which is very popular with the beginners

And Andy, I'm trying very hard not to reply to your "charity dances" comment as I know that you do dance with, encourage and help the beginners. I'm sure a lot of beginners who read (but don't post) the forum will be upset by comments like that

[TheTramp]

What Sheena said.

And Andy.... Whatever you do mate. Don't mention 'lemons' when you're talking about your charity dances.

Trampy

[Gadget]

~and we've using a qualified MJ instructor ~

Isn't that another thread?

I agree that free entrance to beginners is a good idea, but eight?? Maximum I would consider {if I was running an event} would be three:
First night, not sure.
Second night getting it a bit.
Third night should be hooked and wanting to come back.

To me, eight seems to put the venue in a "desperate" light - it also could put regulars off a bit: "they are getting in for free again?!" It would also not be condusive to keeping beginners after the eight have run out: It was good while it was free, but now I've been introduced to it & can do the basics I can go to any other venue or just stop since I don't think there is that much more to learn.

[Petal]

And Andy, I'm trying very hard not to reply to your "charity dances" comment as I know that you do dance with, encourage and help the beginners. I'm sure a lot of beginners who read (but don't post) the forum will be upset by comments like that

You read my thoughts sheena, i thought this a bit harsh, and maybe everyone should remember they too were a beginner once upon a time. It's the type of comment i think would put newbies off coming back if they knew they were thought of as a "charity case".

[tsh]

Is the issue with having people come back in weeks 2-4, or is it the 6-10 (or whatever) week period?

I saw a large number of (I assume) first timers last night, who seemed completely overwhelmed by what they felt was expected of them - I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't come back, but that was based on seeing them at the end of the lesson, rather than the end of the night. Discount vouchers sort of work for this, since it's nice to be able to 'spend' them! Actual cost isn't so important, imo.

One thing which I found a bit lacking was the availibility of beginners workshops - I think there was one in a 2 month window (and I can't make it!).

Sean

[Andy McGregor]

And Andy, I'm trying very hard not to reply to your "charity dances" comment as I know that you do dance with, encourage and help the beginners. I'm sure a lot of beginners who read (but don't post) the forum will be upset by comments like that

Sorry It was just a throw-away line: not meant to be taken seriously. Bad choice of words: my mistake

What I was illustrating was that we might feel less inclined to dance with beginners if we'd paid to get in and knew they hadn't, and weren't going to for 8 weeks!

[ChrisA]

What I was illustrating was that we might feel less inclined to dance with beginners if we'd paid to get in and knew they hadn't, and weren't going to for 8 weeks!

Cobblers, IMHO

Some of the new beginners that start should be encouraged to stay whether they pay or not... I'll dance with them anyway

I had an awesome new beginner when I was taxiing a couple of weeks ago. One of the most naturally good followers I've come across. She could have gone straight into the intermediates as far as I was concerned... I'd have been delighted for her to get in for free for a few weeks, cos she'd be a total asset to the night as well as deserving some encouragement, not that she looked like she needed much...

Chris

[Gadget]

What I was illustrating was that we might feel less inclined to dance with beginners if we'd paid to get in and knew they hadn't, and weren't going to for 8 weeks!

Less likley to dance with beginners because they paid less? So if an advanced dancer got in for free, you would be less likley to dance with them as well? And what about Taxis? It's part of the perks that you get in for free - are you less likley to dance with them because you actually paid to get in?

It seems that the issue you have is with beginners rather than paying.

[Andy McGregor]

Cobblers, IMHO

Some of the new beginners that start should be encouraged to stay whether they pay or not... I'll dance with them anyway

I had an awesome new beginner when I was taxiing a couple of weeks ago. One of the most naturally good followers I've come across. She could have gone straight into the intermediates as far as I was concerned... I'd have been delighted for her to get in for free for a few weeks, cos she'd be a total asset to the night as well as deserving some encouragement, not that she looked like she needed much...

Chris

And what about that dancer that hasn't a clue?; that you spend two tracks with and manage to keep smiling through them failing to get the most basic moves; the beginner that doesn't remember a thing and will need loads of help - and because you've been so friendly and helpful the beginner that asks you to dance with them two more times during the evening?

I'm not complaining about beginners, or them getting in for free. I'm saying that the organiser should, just occasionally, recognise the work his regulars do dancing with beginners and patiently showing them how to dance. Free entry once in a while, a drink, an ice-cream: or even just a "thank-you"

[Andy McGregor]

It seems that the issue you have is with beginners rather than paying.

I have no problem with beginners. They are tomorrows good dancers. My objective at any night is to dance with everyone in the room. My selection process at the start of a track is next-nearest-person-I-haven't-danced-with-yet. That means I usually dance with every beginner in the room. How many experienced dancers can put their hand on their heart and say that?

As I said above, if the organiser is offering beginners free entry, wouldn't it be nice to give something to his regulars too?

[ChrisA]

And what about that dancer that hasn't a clue?; that you spend two tracks with and manage to keep smiling through them failing to get the most basic moves; the beginner that doesn't remember a thing and will need loads of help - and because you've been so friendly and helpful the beginner that asks you to dance with them two more times during the evening?

I don't buy this. You're acting like a taxi dancer - very laudable but it's your choice to do this. Otherwise you could have one dance with them and when they ask you the second time you can nicely say that you've had several dances with them, and you'd like to dance with someone else at this time.

I'm not complaining about beginners, or them getting in for free. I'm saying that the organiser should, just occasionally, recognise the work his regulars do dancing with beginners and patiently showing them how to dance. Free entry once in a while, a drink, an ice-cream: or even just a "thank-you"

Well, this isn't the same point at all... you said:

What I was illustrating was that we might feel less inclined to dance with beginners if we'd paid to get in and knew they hadn't, and weren't going to for 8 weeks!

... which seems to imply to me that you're begrudging the fact that they're getting in for free and you're not.

But you've clarified that you don't mean that - fair enough.

However, my point remains - it's your choice to act like a TD with the beginners, so I don't see how the organiser somehow has a moral obligation to accord you a version of the privileges s/he accords to the actual taxis.

On my taxi nights I work damn hard to give the beginners as good a time as I can. When I'm not taxiing I dance with whom I please - which includes some of the beginners and almost all the people that ask me.

Chris

[Gus]

Not sure if you're taking the Michael here, Gus, but.............
You're right, I don't think that's radical at all - and whilst having the revision class in a separate room is desirable, it's only possible if your venue has another room you can use.

Yup ... was Mick taking ... lots of venues I know either dont have the facility or just dont bother. My main bugbear is that the majority of Taxi dancers I have seen really dont know how to coach beginners. Not their fault, they just haven't been trained properly ... and we wonder why we loose 90 - 96% of beginners within a few months

[ChrisA]

I have no problem with beginners. They are tomorrows good dancers. My objective at any night is to dance with everyone in the room. My selection process at the start of a track is next-nearest-person-I-haven't-danced-with-yet. That means I usually dance with every beginner in the room. How many experienced dancers can put their hand on their heart and say that?

Certainly not me, but I don't make a virtue out of it as you do.

I feel I put a lot back. I do dance with beginners, even when I'm not taxiing; I work damn hard when I am on duty, and I rarely refuse a dance, so I also put up with the injuries from a lot of yanking about that I get. I also hardly ever get perved at

So when I'm not taxiing, I'm there mostly for me.

As I said above, if the organiser is offering beginners free entry, wouldn't it be nice to give something to his regulars too?

Maybe... but I bet very few regulars give as much back as you do, judging by your MO above. So who deserves the organiser's beneficence? Should some get more than others?

Chris