What to say to beginners

[stewart38]

See, now I'm confused.

On the one hand, you'e suggesting that I lie to beginners, and act like I think they've been dancing for years and are really good, when it's blatantly obvious that they've been dancing for only a few weeks.
On the other hand, you're suggesting that I couldn't possibly tell somone I think they're good unless I honestly think that.
So... which is it?

I mention on another thread that I asked a girl if it was her 1st time she said no it was her 4th. I dont know if she has gone off to die or will be there next week.

I wont do that again but what should you say ?

I took another beginner to ceroc who after two events started the intermediate then even did an advanced class on her 4th trip. She has a great memory but .. clearly isnt ready for advance , what do you say ?

[David Bailey]

I mention on another thread that I asked a girl if it was her 1st time she said no it was her 4th. I dont know if she has gone off to die or will be there next week.

I wont do that again but what should you say ?

"Lovely to dance with you last week - can I have another?" sounds like a start

I took another beginner to ceroc who after two events started the intermediate then even did an advanced class on her 4th trip. She has a great memory but .. clearly isnt ready for advance , what do you say ?

Tricky one - maybe just be honest and say that? Tactfully of course...

[El Salsero Gringo]

I took another beginner to ceroc who after two events started the intermediate then even did an advanced class on her 4th trip. She has a great memory but .. clearly isnt ready for advance , what do you say ?

It's easier for women to move up faster, because they are learning to follow and not to lead. They are likely to gain more benefit from an intermediate class earlier than a man at an equivalent stage of experience.

Even given that you didn't think she was ready for the Advanced class, what is that makes you feel obliged to say anything at all? By the time she's on her fourth visit she's obviously happy to make her own way.

[clevedonboy]

My well worn line:

"I haven't noticed you here before, have I missed you or are you new?" Always seems to open a dialogue in a friendly fashion for all standards be they absolute beginners or returning intermediates

[stewart38]

My well worn line:

"I haven't noticed you here before, have I missed you or are you new?" Always seems to open a dialogue in a friendly fashion for all standards be they absolute beginners or returning intermediates

Yes and they respond Ive been dancing here for the last year


I would think most people on this forum wouldnt dance with beginners any way.

[Katie]

I would think most people on this forum wouldnt dance with beginners any way.

That is a sweeping generalisation! I think you'd be wrong.

Perhaps ESG should conduct a survey to find out.....

[Bill]

Even given that you didn't think she was ready for the Advanced class, what is that makes you feel obliged to say anything at all? By the time she's on her fourth visit she's obviously happy to make her own way.

But if a woman hasn't grasped the basics she's going to find it much harder to follow more complicated moves and so for the men who have just moved up they will find it even harder to lead.

I've seen thi shappen at Aberdeen where a couple of women moved up before they had 'mastered' the basic moves and every man had a hellish time trying to lead them in the class and so it wasn't at all enjoyable for the men and the women simply couldn't grasp what they were trying to do.

I think most dancers err on the side of caution and stay with the beginners until they really fel able to lead or follow the moves well. Some ask the taxi dancers who can be 'supportive' and suggest they do another few beginners classes and maybe a workshop !

[Little Monkey]

I would think most people on this forum wouldnt dance with beginners any way.

I think you're wrong. Most of the people I know from the forum (be it teachers, dj's, advanced dancers, intermediate dancers - whatever) do ask beginners to dance. And if they don't actively search them out, they very rarely say no if a beginner is brave enough to ask them for a dance. Wether they enjoy dancing with the beginner is another matter altogether , although I think most people still remember how it feels to be a "muggle".

LM

[El Salsero Gringo]

That is a sweeping generalisation! I think you'd be wrong.

Perhaps ESG should conduct a survey to find out.....

That's alright, Kate. I've learnt my lesson from last time. We don't need to have a survey because I already know the right answer.

.

[Gadget]

I would think most people on this forum wouldnt dance with beginners any way.

I take it that was sarcasm?

[stewart38]

That is a sweeping generalisation! I think you'd be wrong.

Perhaps ESG should conduct a survey to find out.....

I meant regulary not any snob value

[stewart38]

But if a woman hasn't grasped the basics she's going to find it much harder to follow more complicated moves and so for the men who have just moved up they will find it even harder to lead.

I've seen thi shappen at Aberdeen where a couple of women moved up before they had 'mastered' the basic moves and every man had a hellish time trying to lead them in the class and so it wasn't at all enjoyable for the men and the women simply couldn't grasp what they were trying to do.

Not to metion for any women who have to stand out

[El Salsero Gringo]

But if a woman hasn't grasped the basics she's going to find it much harder to follow more complicated moves and so for the men who have just moved up they will find it even harder to lead.

I've seen thi shappen at Aberdeen where a couple of women moved up before they had 'mastered' the basic moves and every man had a hellish time trying to lead them in the class and so it wasn't at all enjoyable for the men and the women simply couldn't grasp what they were trying to do.

We agree, I think, in the main.

It's a truism to say that if a woman isn't ready to move up then - she isn't ready to move up.

But to achieve a basic level of following ability doesn't require a catalogue of knowledge of all or most of the beginners moves, and only a basic level of following ability is needed to get benefit from the intermediate class. That same basic level of following ability is all that's necessary for the men in the class to benefit from dancing with that woman.

A woman may get that basic familiarity with following sooner than a man learns to lead sufficiently well to make the intermediate class useful to him and to his partners in the class.

Of course there are exceptions on both sides.


I suppose the real question is, if you see or know someone is in a class that's above them, and it's disadvantaging other people in the same class - are you prepared to tell them? In most cases I think I'd keep my own counsel. Wierdly, I've noticed this happening more in Salsa classes, especially those that make a big song and dance about not moving up unless you're 'good enough'. Perhaps when the organisers make a fuss about it encourages those who are terribly status conscious about these things to want to get ahead of themselves.

[drathzel]

I would think most people on this forum wouldnt dance with beginners any way.

excuse me

i would find that people on here, from reading posts, dance with beginners more!

[stewart38]

I think most people on this forum would dance with beginners anyway

[Bill]

We agree, I think, in the main.

It's a truism to say that if a woman isn't ready to move up then - she isn't ready to move up.

But to achieve a basic level of following ability doesn't require a catalogue of knowledge of all or most of the beginners moves, and only a basic level of following ability is needed to get benefit from the intermediate class.

I think women need more than a basic level of following before they start the Intermediate class. If she is only just coping with a first move and a yoyo she isn't going to be ready for anything more advanced - even though she might think she will. I do agree that most dancers are pretty honest about their abilities and deciding when to move up.

It also helps of course that when they move up the men and women actually listen to the teacher

Watched someone the other night ignore the walk through the first move and then completley mess it up with a number of women before they managed to show him what he was suppsoed to be doing !!! And then I heard he is pretty notorious for telling women that they are not doing the move correctly

[El Salsero Gringo]

I think women need more than a basic level of following before they start the Intermediate class. If she is only just coping with a first move and a yoyo she isn't going to be ready for anything more advanced

So actually, all we disagree on is a definition of 'basic level of following'.

But do you or don't you think that women get to a 'moving up' standard quicker on average than men?

And do you or don't you say something to someone who makes that move too early?

And if so, what do you say?