Teacher feedback

[David Bailey]

We've talked about Forum feedback and about dancer feedback (many times), but I don't recall seeing anything about feedback to teachers.

In my real-life profession, which I am (if I say so meself) pretty good at, I spend a lot of time pestering people to provide negative feedback (or "constructive criticism") on my work, as I know this type of feedback is the best way to improve, and to get to the top of my game / field.

For Ceroc, I've sometimes (but rarely) been asked by teachers my opinion of a class, and I admit I've been remiss in providing too much critique, 'coz I'm a wuss - perhaps I should have. Anyway....

Is there a structural system in Ceroc (or other MJ class) to encourage this type of feedback? I suspect not - if there is, it's pretty well hidden, which kind of defeats the object of the exercise.

So, assuming there's no such mechanism:
- How do teachers get better at teaching?
- Should there be such a system? If so, what form could it take?

Discuss...

Or, let the flame wars begin...

[El Salsero Gringo]

That's a very good idea. My gym nominated this week as "Feedback Week" and everyone attending a class was given a form to fill in to rate the teacher on different attributes, as well as to make suggestions or comments.

Perhaps Ceroc (either centrally, or each franchise individually) could have reply-paid postcards printed on which you could rate a class and venue 1-5 on various categories and put it in a box at the venue or in the post if you preferred.

[Russell Saxby]

Is there a structural system in Ceroc (or other MJ class) to encourage this type of feedback? I suspect not - if there is, it's pretty well hidden, which kind of defeats the object of the exercise.

Feeling a bit brave, but we can blame Gus for buying me that last but one Guinness

Happy to be a guiness pig, teaching every other week at Greenwich, or every Monday at Clapham... a PM after the Class will suffice, or by all means start a thread.. or do I have to provide a feedback form...cos you know that ain't gonna happen...

we do have a lovely suggestion box mind

[Piglet]

Or what about just telling the teacher what you thought of the class or an aspect of the teaching??

OK so this is maybe what you would do when you were well impressed with something rather than when you were naffed off (which I don't think I've ever experienced with a teacher).

We had a "new" (as in one from a different location) teacher this week and I'd never met her before. Her name was Elaine (I hope I've remembered that part correctly) and she was sh1t hot (excuse my French but I was well impressed) at getting everyone executing the moves properly - from what I observed and experienced anyway. She had her finger on the button as to what tips would help sort out particular problems and she was firm in saying she wasn't going to go on until everyone mastered what she was teaching - and it worked first time!!!!

Well done Elaine! I did tell you I was well impressed, but its worth mentioning again.

And just to add.... I've no complaints about my usual teachers in this respect at all. It's just something that stood out one night in particular.

[Gadget]

Is there a structural system in Ceroc (or other MJ class) to encourage this type of feedback? I suspect not - if there is, it's pretty well hidden, which kind of defeats the object of the exercise.

So, assuming there's no such mechanism:
- How do teachers get better at teaching?
- Should there be such a system? If so, what form could it take?

Teachers are the same as everyone else: critique and feedback can be hurtfull as well as enlightening. It needs some tact and construction to it {I'm working on the "tact" thing...}

You've also got to realise that while you may have found a class challenging, the person next to you might have found it boring. You may not have picked up on something, but most others thought it was crystal clear. Any feedback given is personal opinion - not a representative of any sort of majority or group.

And don't expect any feedback to be actioned or acted on: they are free to dissregard anything you say as rubbish. Feedback is just an opinion; no more or less vaid than anyone else's opinion - including the teachers.


I have given a fair bit of feedback to various teachers (normally by PM or e-mail) - some things you like, some things you don't. It's very easy to dwell on the negative and ignore the positive. You are also comparing one teacher with the best bits from every other teacher you've ever had: I don't think anyone can live up to that sort of model.
Personally, I would never give any feedback to a third party without giving the person/teacher being discussed the same information. (ie if someone asked what I thought of X's teaching, I would let X know my thoughts as well.) This has led to some undiplomatic consequences, but they are only my thoughts.

[David Bailey]

Or what about just telling the teacher what you thought of the class or an aspect of the teaching??

OK so this is maybe what you would do when you were well impressed with something rather than when you were naffed off (which I don't think I've ever experienced with a teacher).

The trouble is, the best way to improve is to find out what you're doing wrong. And I don't think most teachers would react well to someone coming up and saying to them "I didn't like XXX", even if most students had the guts to do so (I certainly don't).

No-one's perfect, even Ceroc teachers - everyone makes mistakes, or does things that don't work. So some form of structural feedback would seem a sensible way to provide anonymous input onto class success, assuming you care about improving the level of teaching. Or am I missing something?

[Lindsay]

Brady & I asked for feedback at our WCS workshop last w'end, gave out forms with Qs about content, pace, venue, etc. Was really positive and very useful, and people said they appreciated being asked.

[Jive Brummie]

Brady & I asked for feedback at our WCS workshop last w'end, gave out forms with Qs about content, pace, venue, etc. Was really positive and very useful, and people said they appreciated being asked.

I'm with Lindsay on this one. I think feedback is a useful tool for all teachers. None of us are perfect and the ones that think they are might as well hang up their dance shoes now!!! (not my words by the way, they are in fact from a well respected advance trainer from darn sarf)

J x x

P.S Anyone that comes to my class in Perth is more than welcome to give feedback, be it good or bad

[Danielle]

I've done a couple of Val and Dave's workshops and they always provide feedback forms at the end of the class!!!
Its great to be asked and their workshops are always sold out!

They have also given out feedback forms at there regular Monday night venue in the past asking about what sort of music the class likes/dislikes, what we want to see more of, dance styles we like etc!!!

I think they are fantastic teachers
and feedback, as long as its contructive, is always a good thing

[MartinHarper]

I don't think most teachers would react well to someone coming up and saying to them "I didn't like XXX", even if most students had the guts to do so.

Hmm.
I tried it a little while ago ("you taught move X with two different timings, and I think some folks got confused"), and the teachers was (understandably) defensive, but didn't really react badly. We did have to play that game where we pussyfoot around the issue for a few minutes, but there you are.

To be honest, though, I think the best pieces of feedback would be things that teachers can pick up directly. For example - is the class paying any attention? If not, that might indicate a problem with the material being taught, or the way it is being taught.

[Purple Sparkler]

I've given feedback to one of my teachers in the past, but it was more of the 'hey, a lot of the beginners are doing XYZ when I dance with them', to which his (very kind) reaction was to note this down to mention in the next class.

I was VERY tempted to tell one teacher and demo off one night, because as I came in before the beginners class (learning the man's part as I've said before), they were having an argument right next to the entry desk and thus in earshot of the people arriving about which one of them was going to teach the beginners class, along the lines of

Teacher: "I'll give you £40!"
Demo: "No, I'm not teaching beginners".

I found that extremely unprofessional and wish now that I'd said something to that effect.

I also keep meaning to ask the English teachers I have to tell us what the moves they're teaching are called. And I wish more of them had a long term plan for their classes and were clearer about what they want us to learn. Standalone classes are OK, but they only have a limited benefit in the long run.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I also keep meaning to ask the English teachers I have to tell us what the moves they're teaching are called.

Am I wrong to guess that you're "bigging up" certain beloved Australian teachers when you say that? How do you find the Scottish ones? Do things divide up so neatly by nationality?

And I wish more of them had a long term plan for their classes and were clearer about what they want us to learn. Standalone classes are OK, but they only have a limited benefit in the long run.

Standalone classes are the official Ceroc UK format, otherwise Ceroc loses the "any class, any where, any time" feel. Although I agree a long term plan for regulars at a venue would be nice.