Who would be a dj?

[tiger]

Over recent weeks even months, i suppose, there have been a lot of whinges,opinions,praise here on the forum. Generally it seems the experienced dancers are getting fussier and being more vocal. Seems to me like the dj's cant win as they are probably trying to cater for the majority whilst a minority are speaking out more. It would be interesting to hear some newbies opinions on the music.

Who would be a dj...

[bigdjiver]

Dancers applaud with their bodies.

[Lynn]

Over recent weeks even months, i suppose, there have been a lot of whinges,opinions,praise here on the forum. Generally it seems the experienced dancers are getting fussier and being more vocal. Seems to me like the dj's cant win as they are probably trying to cater for the majority whilst a minority are speaking out more. It would be interesting to hear some newbies opinions on the music.

Who would be a dj...

Remember that this forum is much more representative of the more experienced dancers than new dancers. And the experienced dancers need somewhere to express their opinions about the music, especially if the music makes a big difference in their experience of a night out.

I think 'newbies' don't notice the music as much - they are too busy thinking about the moves, timing etc - so music with a good strong beat is what they need. With experience, tastes can change. And the DJs have to provide a diet suitable for everyone on one plate as it were. So dancers go to where the music feeds them best.*

Maybe, if you want new dancers opions, start a thread about what style of music people like in the 'beginners corner'?

Good DJs are those who can keep most of the people happy most of the time.

(*Hmm, I think its obvious that I haven't had my dinner yet tonight!)

[bobgadjet]

Good DJs are those who can keep most of the people happy most of the time.

and I suppose GREAT DJ's are those who can keep Forumites happy most of the time

Sometimes, from what I see, I think that newbys don't even know they SHOULD be dancing to the beat of music Can they even HEAR the music, or indeed the beat ?

Are they EVER told there is a beat to dance to ?

Please tell me ?

[ducasi]

Who would be a dj...

I wouldn't mind trying it sometime... I'd have to work on my music collection first though...

[David Bailey]

Over recent weeks even months,

I think "years" is probably more appropriate, I might even say "decades" in the MJ world

Generally it seems the experienced dancers are getting fussier and being more vocal.

I think there is some truth in this - I've certainly got more picky in the past few years. Although it could be just another sign of me getting old and cantankerous.

Seems to me like the dj's cant win as they are probably trying to cater for the majority whilst a minority are speaking out more. It would be interesting to hear some newbies opinions on the music.

I agree that it'd be nice to get this, and that it'd be valuable.

However, and I don't want to be patronising, I don't think most new dancers think too much about the music one way or the other. When you start off, you're trying to learn the moves, the dancing, the etiquette, the scene and whole loads of other things; you don't really think too much about the music, it's just kind of there.

It's only when you get comfortable with dancing that you want to start interpretative dancing, because that gives you more of a challenge (and raises your enjoyment of the dance). But, interpretation does depend on the music - and it's difficult to interpret most pop tracks.

Of course, the counter-argument is that a really good dancer should be able to interpret anything at any time. But most of us aren't that good, and we like the help of dancing to tracks which suit our particular style of interpretation.

Who would be a dj...

You could make that argument about any walk of MJ life where you put yourself in a relatively high-profile position - event organiser, teacher, etc.

I don't think there's exactly a dearth of people wanting to DJ at the moment.

What I'd like to see is some form of Modern Jive DJ training - Ceroc train their teachers, why not provide something to train the DJs? At the moment, there seems to be little guidance or structure - is that correct?

[Minnie M]

.........What I'd like to see is some form of Modern Jive DJ training - Ceroc train their teachers, why not provide something to train the DJs? At the moment, there seems to be little guidance or structure - is that correct?

IMO I don't think that training would be of much use, what a DJ needs is a lot of experience + a very large and varied music selection (BTW being an experienced dancer also helps)

I could never be a DJ - too much like hard work (music research) and couldn't afford it (all that music to be purchased etc + equipment) and when you consider they are only paid for the time actually DJing (and not a lot on the MJ circuit so I hear) I would rather be a singer in a band (if I could sing )

[David Bailey]

IMO I don't think that training would be of much use, what a DJ needs is a lot of experience + a very large and varied music selection (BTW being an experienced dancer also helps)

Ooh, I seem to recall a thread or two about Dancing DJs...

I think DJ-ing is like any creative endeavour, you need talent, experience and discipline. And I think the discpline part of it can be helped by training. I could envisage a basic 1-day course covering things like "What BPM is good for MJ", "What types of tracks aren't good for MJ", "Mixing and matching", "Reading the floor" etc.

But improving the music at a venue is typically such a low business priority, because most people at most MJ venues really don't care that much about the music. Hell, up until a few years ago, I really didn't care that much about the music either.

The only time it makes sense to focus on the music is when you get a lot of experienced dancers together, and that's pretty rare.

I could never be a DJ - too much like hard work (music research) and couldn't afford it (all that music to be purchased etc + equipment) and when you consider they are only paid for the time actually DJing (and not a lot on the MJ circuit so I hear) I would rather be a singer in a band (if I could sing )

Yep, payment is poor - but hell, MJ teacher payment is also pretty poor.

Like teachers, I imagine a lot of the income comes from private gigs (or lessons), which people want you to do, but it's definitely a labour of love.

[ducasi]

However, and I don't want to be patronising, I don't think most new dancers think too much about the music one way or the other. When you start off, you're trying to learn the moves, the dancing, the etiquette, the scene and whole loads of other things; you don't really think too much about the music, it's just kind of there.

Obviously I'm not most, but I was "noticing" the music from the first week. If you go back and read my first impressions thread, although I wasn't talking about early on (there was enough other things to talk about) it didn't take long for me to start moaning about some of the music I had to listen to while dancing.

OK, I wasn't able at that time to work with the music to interpret it (and I'm still not great,) but it was something I was aware of from the start.

It's only when you get comfortable with dancing that you want to start interpretative dancing, because that gives you more of a challenge (and raises your enjoyment of the dance). But, interpretation does depend on the music - and it's difficult to interpret most pop tracks.

I'd say "many", but not "most".

Of course, the counter-argument is that a really good dancer should be able to interpret anything at any time. But most of us aren't that good, and we like the help of dancing to tracks which suit our particular style of interpretation.

Adding interpretation to up-tempo contemporary "pop" music is much more impressive than lots of dips and playing statues to yet another dreary song that is older than I am.

E.g., Madonna's new song is crying out for some creative interpretation. BEP's "Don't Funk ...", Gwen Stefani's "What You Waiting For", and even an instrumental track like "The Bongo Song" are all great for adding something extra to your dancing.

What songs do other people think are better for interpretation?

[TiggsTours]

Want to be a DJ?

You've got to be kidding! Who would ever want that!?

As they say, you can please some of the people some of the time, none of the people none of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time!

This thead seems to talk about the difference in taste in music between so-called "newbies" and "advanced" dancers, I think other threads have made it perfectly clear that there is a vast difference in opinion within both groups, not just between them, so why not move away from this "them" and "us" way of looking at things?

[MartinHarper]

I don't think most new dancers think too much about the music one way or the other.

I suspect most new dancers notice whether they enjoy listening to the music. Dancing to it is something for later.

Sometimes, from what I see, I think that newbys don't even know they SHOULD be dancing to the beat of music Can they even HEAR the music, or indeed the beat?

For the beginner guys, it's the difficulty of leading and keeping to the beat at the same time. The same effect can occur in women who are leading for the first time, even if they are otherwise very musical.

[LMC]

This thead seems to talk about the difference in taste in music between so-called "newbies" and "advanced" dancers, I think other threads have made it perfectly clear that there is a vast difference in opinion within both groups, not just between them, so why not move away from this "them" and "us" way of looking at things?

The key for me is variety

Sometimes it's good to just dance, without thinking about the music/interpretation too deeply. But I get bored if every track is a poppy one. And I love to be challenged but it's frustrating if all the tracks are 'interpretive' - I find it very difficult to dance to some of the slower tracks or those with loads of breaks - although I can usually have a laugh to 'All That Jazz' and 'Big Spender' now, rather than being scared off the floor, so there's hope for some of the others

I was spoilt as a beginner by Jon Brett being the DJ at my regular venue. So even though I've been dancing less than six months (and am useless at remembering names of artists/tracks) I don't think my taste is widely different from many "advanced" dancers.

[mooncalf]

Sometimes it's good to just dance, without thinking about the music/interpretation too deeply. .

I don't think about musical interpretation, it just kind of happens.

[David Bailey]

I'm certainly not trying to open up a "them and us" scenario, and apologies if that was the impression I gave. Please note I put in caveats.

But yes, beginner dancers generally don't have major likes / dislikes of music - as long as it's familiar and has a nice clear beat, they're generally OK with it.

Which is why most DJs in most classes seem to play boom-boom pop-y songs in between the beginner and intermediate classes, I believe - am I right?

Pretty much any song can be interpreted, with enough experience of leading and following. Interpreting "All That Jazz" is easy - like driving along a well-signposted road. Interpreting Bodyrockers' "I Like The Way You Move" is more challenging - like racing a car down a country lane. You may crash and burn, but it's a hell of a ride.

Obvious caveat; don't race down a country lane, kids, the Power Rangers are not real etc.

[doc martin]

However, and I don't want to be patronising, I don't think most new dancers think too much about the music one way or the other. When you start off, you're trying to learn the moves, the dancing, the etiquette, the scene and whole loads of other things; you don't really think too much about the music, it's just kind of there.

I don't agree with you on this. Having started dancing relatively recently I may have a bit better memory of what I thought of the music when I was a newbie

The main reason I started dancing was to be able to dance to rhythm and blues and I can still remember how happy I was when the DJ put on tracks like Sweet Home Chicago. I knew I could get up and dance to the whole track. It may not have been pretty, it certainly required a great deal of concentration and there was definitely no musical interpretation involved.

So I did think about the music, maybe not in the same sense that you mean, but in a way that meant that I knew which music gave me the most pleasure to dance to. I suspect many beginners are the same. Clearly a good, strong beat helps the enjoyment of the music when it is taking a lot of effort to stick to dancing in time, but a big part of the pleasure lies in participating in music you have loved.

Unfortunately this makes the DJs job even more difficult as he or she can have no inkling of the musical tastes of the beginners. One thing on his/her side is that, as a beginner, I was quite happy to sit out a few tracks if I didn't like them or thought them undanceable. If there were half a dozen tracks in the evening that were just right for me I was happy.

Nowadays I am both more and less fussy. I will dance to virtually anything, but I get most enjoyment from tracks I have scope to interpret.

It's only when you get comfortable with dancing that you want to start interpretative dancing, because that gives you more of a challenge (and raises your enjoyment of the dance). But, interpretation does depend on the music - and it's difficult to interpret most pop tracks.

Of course, the counter-argument is that a really good dancer should be able to interpret anything at any time. But most of us aren't that good, and we like the help of dancing to tracks which suit our particular style of interpretation.

It would be great if I could interpret everything but that will only come about by keeping dancing to things that at present I can't interpret and trying out ideas. This also means thump-thump-thump tracks. Having just done DavidB's musical interpretation workshop at the BFG I have seen how it could be done. As you say, it is difficult and it may take a bit of time to put into practise (have you got a few spare years to wait to find out how I get on?), but meanwhile I will keep on dancing to most anything.

So my conclusion is that the DJs should keep on playing a wide range of music. That maximises the total amount of enjoyment of the crowd.

To increase that total enjoyment, more advanced dancers need to get on and learn how to dance a style they like to all kinds of music. Putting it that way sounds kind of altruistic, which I like, but it really means maximising your own opportunities for pleasure (which I also like )

Edit: I took so long to write this post that Ducasi and MartinHarper had already made most of my points for me. Thanks guys.

[Dance Demon]

As they say, you can please some of the people some of the time, none of the people none of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time!

or even Some of the people all of the time...all of the people some of the time....but not all of the people all of the time......

[Lynn]

or even Some of the people all of the time...all of the people some of the time....but not all of the people all of the time......

or -

Good DJs are those who can keep most of the people happy most of the time.

And DD - I'm in the 'some of the people' category when it comes to your DJing.

[TiggsTours]

or even Some of the people all of the time...all of the people some of the time....but not all of the people all of the time......

Thank you for correcting me, I knew I'd got it wrong, but I knew you'd all know what I meant.

[Gadget]

An old (& long) thread, but some interesting related discussion:
The art of Deejaying

[stewart38]

Dancers applaud with their bodies.

this reminds me of a very effective ,clearly thought out and clear message that was conveyed during American War of Independence
it went like this........


The British are coming

rep on the way