What about the students ??

[Dr. Feelgood]

Originally posted by Gus


ask yourself a question, no matter how appealing the dancestyle ... how many sub-25's are seriously going to enjoy dancing at a place where the music pre-dates their birth "..... if you play Chart music they will come, oh yes ... they will come.."

In this part of the world, Scotland, Ceroc does play about 90% chart music (unfortunately) and the under 25s don't come. What is astonishing is the number of folk over 30, over 40 etc who appear to like this stuff.

Originally posted by Gus

When I talk about this type of music I mean the type of traxs you get played at your local 'disco' rather than hard dance club. Club traxs like Bloxter "you shoulkd be dancing" are a great example ... heavy club beat but effectively a rework of a 70's disco classic. In fact, a lot of succesfull club traxs are what I categorose as 2K Disco ... i.e. using a 70sDisco feel with a more defined beat ... making them ideal for Ceroc.

Why is a rehash of a 70s classic with a pounding 4 on the floor drum beat ideal for Ceroc? Bearing in mind that the dance usually danced at Ceroc is a form of jive?

Originally posted by Gus

but because there is a real absence of good club music played in Scotland you've not had much opporunity to enjoy this diverse and rich music field

diverse and rich music field? - splutter ....
... well, you've just mentioned another good thing about living in Scotland...

Originally posted by Gus

NB I am NOT advocating that modern chart/club music is the Holy Grail ... just that it is seen in many quarters as the poor relation to Modern Jive music ....

What is Modern Jive music? I thought that Modern Jive was supposed to be the dance and that the term modern was used as the justification for playing all that modern chart stuff...

Originally posted by Groovechick

As regards the music, I agree with Gus, play current chart music and you will attract younger folk. However, I couldn't tell you the last time (either in Edinburgh or Glasgow) I heard Fragma, ATB, Delirium, D'Ream, PPK, N-Trance or even Chicane. All I seem to hear is music for swing, jive or the all time favourite "Boogie, Woogie Company B". This is just so, so dire. There are, after all, classes for swing, jive, salsa etc that people can go to if they like that type of music. Why don't you just play more chart music and, hopefully, Ceroc would then be associated with upbeat modern tempos for the younger movers and shakers?

We get bombarded with chart music at Ceroc and it doesn't bring in punters. See my comments above.
"Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" (if that's the one you mean) is a fine song although there's plenty of other good jiving music around and it would be nice to have some more variety.
You say that there are "classes for swing, jive..." Did you know that Ceroc runs jive classes? There should be little surprise then that the occasional jivey tune gets played. On what grounds do you believe that modern chart music is the correct music to play at Ceroc? When I started going to Ceroc the particular venue played predominantly 70s disco (the originals, of course)... it wasn't any more appropriate for jiving to than current chart music but at least it was good to listen to.
I'm not sure what an 'upbeat, modern tempo' is. Music of all playable speeds has always existed...

A final point - I'm all for a bit of variety in the music which is played but currently the bias is very, very firmly in favour of modern chart music. A bit more jive and swing would even things up a bit. Might even get some under 25s in cos the stuff they do play sure as hell aint bringing 'em in

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood
What is astonishing is the number of folk over 30, over 40 etc who appear to like this stuff {chart music}

Why is it astonishing? (I'm 36) The only thing I would ever be surprised to find is someone with exactly the same taste in music as me.

Why is a rehash of a 70s classic with a pounding 4 on the floor drum beat ideal for Ceroc? Bearing in mind that the dance usually danced at Ceroc is a form of jive?
snip
On what grounds do you believe that modern chart music is the correct music to play at Ceroc? When I started going to Ceroc the particular venue played predominantly 70s disco (the originals, of course)... it wasn't any more appropriate for jiving to than current chart music but at least it was good to listen to.

So what is ideal for Ceroc? Leaving aside personal preferences in music - what is the ideal music for Modern Jive?

We get bombarded with chart music at Ceroc and it doesn't bring in punters.

After our only trip to Ceroc in Scotland last year (10th Anniversary Party) I would hate to see a night where there were more punters...

"Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" (if that's the one you mean) is a fine song

It certainly is. Although in my old age I prefer doing East Coast Swing to it, and not modern jive.

You say that there are "classes for swing, jive..." Did you know that Ceroc runs jive classes? There should be little surprise then that the occasional jivey tune gets played.

Aside from the fundamental differences in timing between modern jive and the various forms of 8- and 6-count swing (lindy, east coast swing, rock'n'roll, jitterbug, etc), I do agree with you. For most people at Ceroc, modern jive is the only dance they know. The fact that you can do it to lots of different styles of music makes it very versatile. I would expect to hear the occasional swing track, and the occasional '50s song. Just as I would hope to hear the occasional modern RnB song, and the occasional house track, and even an occasional rap, or drum&bass track. But they are far rarer than swing music at a ceroc night.

A final point - I'm all for a bit of variety in the music which is played but currently the bias is very, very firmly in favour of modern chart music. A bit more jive and swing would even things up a bit. Might even get some under 25s in cos the stuff they do play sure as hell aint bringing 'em in

Come down to London. Quite often I don't like the music at Ceroc nights down here, because they play far too much old stuff...

David

[Ronde!]

Originally posted by Dance Demon
Boy! thats some list. And It's just the sort of stuff that if you get a whole night of it, it would drive you nuts.

Yes, I agree, there are many that would despise that posting as a playlist. But most of the tracks would be great to get if one went out clubbing, as one does as a young 'un. Club Ceroc is even more fun than dance classes much of the time, a combination of the atmosphere and the freedom. And the faster beat of club music (which averages around 135 BPM) is a real boost to acquiring fluency and confidence.

I know there are pros and cons to any style of music and any mix. I love it all, except Billy Ray Cyrus, and I've never yet turned down a dance based on the music. Ceroc, like other hobbies, is a chance to meet other people and expand your taste, experiences and interests... like so much in life... which is why I always say

Live passionately,

[TheTramp]

So what is ideal for Ceroc? Leaving aside personal preferences in music - what is the ideal music for Modern Jive?

I don't think that there is any such thing. It's all a question of personal preferences. And if you went to a dance night, and asked 10 different people for the ideal Modern Jive track, you'd probably get 10 vastly different answers.

I still think that the only way to achieve success, is to play a wide variety af music. And hope that people in general finally realise that theirs isn't the only opinion on the dancefloor, and that there has to be some give and take by everyone.....

(Fat chance)

Steve

[Franck]

Here goes another thread veering off topic...

Anyway, regarding students, I reckon we get a reasonable number up here... Not huge, but then again, I don't think we are seeking a predominantly 'studenty' membership at any of the nights...
About 8 years ago, I did run classes at a Ceroc society in Edinburgh University, and it was very popular, it pretty much kick started the classes in Edinburgh! The main ingredients were that it had to be cheap (very cheap), and in 'trendy' premises, and of course that the night was 'officially' organized by a student. In the end, though, the students moved on to real life and the classes stopped in the university, but we opened regular classes in Edinburgh...

Because the Wednesday nights in Glasgow are in a Student's Union, most people expect to see mostly students and are (pleasantly) surprised to find the broad range of ages / walks of life that attend the nights.

I don't think the music has any effect at all, apart from the fact that if you get too much of one style, then you alienate one part (or more) of your membership, students have varying preferred styles too, and you can't just assume that because they are young they'll like club music or hip hop...

As someone pointed out above, students like to socialize with other students, so unless you have a special students night, you are unlikely to get that many students...
This is not limited to students, and I reckon as many people are put off by the perception Ceroc nights are full of students...

Franck.

[PeterL]

The idea of getting students to go is admirable.

But one of the main reasons I and so many others enjoy ceroc is the wide range of types and age groups that attend. All feel welcome. As an ex-student I remember not being short of social activities, while as a 30 year old going to clubs no longer appeals the way it used to.

It is nice that an organisation such as ceroc does not target a particular audience and maybe that dooms it to a mainly slightly older generation. However this is not a bad thing.

I think ceroc in Scotland atleast has the formula right. Young, Young at heart doesn't matter all are welcome and all have a good time once they learn to relax and enjoy dancing.

[Franck]

Originally posted by PeterL
Young, Young at heart doesn't matter all are welcome and all have a good time once they learn to relax and enjoy dancing.

Yep, could not agree more... As long as people are up for a good time and a dance or 10, what do I care how old they are?
We do need a good mix of people though, just to make sure the nights don't become 'cliquey'.

Franck.

[PeterL]

Originally posted by Franck
We do need a good mix of people though, just to make sure the nights don't become 'cliquey'.

This is exactly why I don't think it would be a good idea to target a particular audience. Ceroc in Scotland has a good mix of people and I dance with people of all age groups and interests an inundation od students may put people off and change the excellent atmosphere we have. Plus if we were over populated by students ceroc would be a bit quiet at exam time.

The best way of promoting ceroc is word of mouth. Most people I know have been introduced by a friend, once you have the bug you try to get everyone you know to go.

[Gus]

Originally posted by PeterL
[B]This is exactly why I don't think it would be a good idea to target a particular audience. Ceroc in Scotland has a good mix of people and I dance with people of all age groups and interests an inundation od students may put people off and change the excellent atmosphere we have. [b]

If your age range is balanced in Scotland great! ... but thats definitely not the case in many Ceroc clubs I've been to. I'm not being ageist but at my advanced years its a bit off-putting to walk into a venue and find myself one of the younger dancers and have to endure Swing, RnR and Frank Sinatra all night. The Music and the dancers should be similar ... i.e. a broad range ... too many clubs are firmly entrenched solely in the 40/50 age group.

At Middlewich on Friday we had quite literaly from 16 to 60 (OK ... so it was 58 but who's counting). The music ranged from Bad Bad Leroy Brown and Stop her on Sight through Santana and Van M Classics through to Jakatta, David Guetta and Avril L ..... and most people enjoyed most tracks ... sin't that whats its about?

PS The only record that (nearly) cleared the floor was 'Aint Nobody but us Chickens' by Lisa Stansfield ..... is that trying to tell us something?

[Holly]

Originally posted by Gus
PS The only record that (nearly) cleared the floor was 'Aint Nobody but us Chickens' by Lisa Stansfield ..... is that trying to tell us something?

What were you expecting?? It's a dire tune - and that's coming from a girl who likes cheese!

Holly

[Gus]

Originally posted by Holly


What were you expecting?? It's a dire tune - and that's coming from a girl who likes cheese!

Holly

Urrrr .... got to say that the 'Swing' album is standard ammunition for all Ceroc DJs ... I've tended to find it fairly reliable for the last two years ... though it seems now to be faling out of favour

[Dr. Feelgood]

Originally posted by Franck

... and you can't just assume that because they are young they'll like club music or hip hop...

How true, Franck. Age and musical taste are not related in any way.

Plenty of youngsters like swing and r'n'r etc and plenty of older folk seem to like modern stuff.
Go to a Pink Floyd concert (if you ever get another chance) and there'll be no shortage of teenagers there. Plenty of other other examples obviously exist.

I like stuff from centuries ago up to present day... I wouldn't, however, go through the motions of jive to all the music I love.

If someone were to ask the question, "Why do people start going to Ceroc" then the answer to why students, in the main, don't go might become apparent.

[Siobhan (Forum Plant)]

For me, variety is best.... a bit of everything makes the perfect ceroc night! Too much club/pop I get bored, too much swing I get bored.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Gus


Urrrr .... got to say that the 'Swing' album is standard ammunition for all Ceroc DJs ... I've tended to find it fairly reliable for the last two years ... though it seems now to be faling out of favour

I'm with Holly on this particular track - I hate it.

[TheTramp]

Ummm.....

Well, I quite like the Louis Jordan version.

Is that allowed??

Steve

[Ronde!]

Hmmm... I just thought of another possible reason we have such a large proportion of young Cerocers compared to some other venues... half our teachers, and all of our teacher trainees (I think), are under 30 or so, and the others are the most young-at-heart people I've ever met (though this might be the effect Ceroc has on people in general ).

Our teacher demographics must have subtle influences on music, atmosphere, and the kinds of parties and social events put on... and might explain why we go clubbing together (teachers and students), hang out at New Years Eve, invite each other to parties, and dare each other to wear sequins and glittery jeans, and generally have fun being silly much of the time...

Live passionately,

[Gus]

Originally posted by Ronde!
Hmmm... I just thought of another possible reason we have such a large proportion of young Cerocers compared to some other venues... half our teachers, and all of our teacher trainees (I think), are under 30 or so, and the others are the most young-at-heart people I've ever met (though this might be the effect Ceroc has on people in general ).
Live passionately,

I think thats its the attitude of the teacher thats most important. If its pure age ...well most of the female Scottish teachers I've met are mere embryos (in the nicest possible way) ... Lisa, Lorna, Mari etc ..... If age was the main fcator then all their classes would be filled full of pimply youths drooling over such gorgeous examples of womanhood ... (sorry ... going to have to lie down again..) OK ... you know what I mean!

At Nantwich, with exception Jo ... all the teachers were over 30 ... in my case considerably over 30 ... but we still get a lot of buy-in from the 20 year old market (well at least the ones we get through the door). Re the music ... sorry but EVERY youngster I know down here would far prefer to dance to Basement Jaxx, 3 Amigos or even Kylie to the vast majority of Swing! Its not that they dont like Swing, they just like class club music moreso.