Assimilating Salseros

[andydo]

That's looking wrong.

Why, at a concert when people clap along with a song, do they all clap on the same beat? (with the odd person clapping intentionally on the off beat)

I think that the deep 'base' marking of the rhythm corresonds to the impact of a foot on the ground. The stronger beat being the one most folk step with.

Just noticed this after my above post. I agree, its the strong base beat that you tend to notice and it's what we normally dance to in jive.

I would say that people normally clap on the off beats though, clapping on the beat sounds a bit lame. I'm reminded of a comment about people clapping like germans which turned out to be from this forum.

http://cerocscotland.com/forum/showp...0&postcount=25

The percussion beat is more noticeable on the 2, so that's why it feels more natural to clap on two, clapping being a form of percussion after all.

[spindr]

It is also possible to dance 234 678 of course but thats not 'dancing on two'.

That's dancing mambo!

SpinDr.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Dancing salsa on two, as it is normally understood these days, does not mean dancing 234 678, you still dance 123 567, but the break step is now shifted so that it falls on the 2 and the 6, rather than the 1 and the 5.

Yes, pause on the 1 and 5, break with the left foot on the 2, right foot on 6 (for the men) hence, 234 678, like a rumba.

There used to be a great article on www.salsafreak.com about sixty different ways to dance on different beats in salsa - all 'correct'. Pity I can't find it, it appears to have been taken down.

[Lynn]

Dancing salsa on two, as it is normally understood these days, does not mean dancing 234 678, you still dance 123 567, but the break step is now shifted so that it falls on the 2 and the 6, rather than the 1 and the 5.

I don't think its as simple as that - isn't the footwork different as well? OK, I've only done one 'on 2' class but AFAIR the basic footwork for the woman at least, was different. (It also felt 'smoother' to me, not sure why.)

[andydo]

Yes, pause on the 1 and 5, break with the left foot on the 2, right foot on 6 (for the men) hence, 234 678, like a rumba.

There used to be a great article on www.salsafreak.com about sixty different ways to dance on different beats in salsa - all 'correct'. Pity I can't find it, it appears to have been taken down.

No sorry, I was saying that it's definitely not 234 678, its 123 567, pausing on the 4 and 8 just as in dancing on the one.

I think this is the salsa freak article you are talking about, look at the steps called mambo tipico / eddie torres two. That is what I would understand as dancing on two, and I think its what you'd to get if you went to an on2 class at a salsa congress in the UK.


http://www.salsafreak.com/stories-s/steps.htm

Admittedly the site does also show a 234 678 on two step pattern called on two just to confuse things.

And here's another link for interest which agrees with my definition of on 2.

http://www.salsanewyork.com/ourdancemusic.htm

Anyway, my point is that paradoxically, dancing on 2 (as generally understood here in the UK in 2006) still means dancing to the same 123 567 rhythm.

The footwork for the basic steps is still the same, its just that it has been shifted 5 beats forward in time, while the pause has stayed in the same place. Without going into details it tends to give the follower a little more time to turn and slightly more notice of a turn, which is why it feels a little smoother I guess.

However if you danced 234 678, there would effectively be no difference, if wouldn't feel any smoother, you wouldn't have any extra time to turn because you are still dancing the same rhythm, same timing, its just been shifted one beat.

Anyway, trying to get back on topic. I'm confused about what the comment about salsa dancers dancing on the off beat was, unless it was a 234 678 dancer I suppose, but I'd have thought that was quite unlikely, most salsa being on the beat whether your dancing on 1 or on 2 (my definition).

[El Salsero Gringo]

No sorry, I was saying that it's definitely not 234 678, its 123 567, pausing on the 4 and 8 just as in dancing on the one.

OK - please tell me what each foot does on each beat, because I'm not following you. (by PM if you prefer, but maybe someone else is interested or can explain it to me?)

[Lynn]

The footwork for the basic steps is still the same, its just that it has been shifted 5 beats forward in time, while the pause has stayed in the same place. Without going into details it tends to give the follower a little more time to turn and slightly more notice of a turn, which is why it feels a little smoother I guess.

By 'different footwork' I meant eg that the woman doesn't start with a step back right (I think she starts with a step forward, anyone help?).

And yes there did seem to be 'more' time which felt smoother to me.

[andydo]

Well there was a full description of which foot goes where when on this site, which I didn't really want to repeat, but I've included it here if anyone is interested.

Yes, you are right Lynn, the lady steps forwards on 1. So count it as different footwork if you like, although if you looked at the footprints left behind they would be the same as if you were dancing on 1. As it says below though, it is also possible to start with the first step on the 6 rather than on the 1.

http://www.salsanewyork.com/ourdancemusic.htm



The ON 2 Basic Step - In our basic step, the man's left foot goes back and the woman's right foot goes forward on the 1st beat of this so-called 8 beat measure or bar. We step with our feet on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th, 6th, and 7th beats of the measure . We do not step on the 4th and 8th beats. We actually "break" our movement, in other words we change body direction, on the 2nd and 6th beats of the measure. We call it "breaking on 2", or "dancing on 2", or "bailando en dos". This is mambo, danced forward and back, in a line or slot, not side to side or in a circle or square. You can see this step precisely demonstrated and broken down into its separate elements in the Eddie Torres Teaches Salsa videos.

Our basic step is as follows:

1st beat of the measure - The man steps back with his left foot. The woman steps forward with her right foot.

2nd beat of the measure - The man steps farther back with his right foot, then changes direction, starting to lean forward with his body = "breaks forward on 2". The woman steps farther forward with her left foot, then changes direction, starting to lean back with her body = "breaking back on 2".

3rd beat of the measure - The man steps in place with his left foot, while his body is moving forward. The woman steps in place with her right foot, while her body is moving backward.

4th beat of the measure - No steps.

5th beat of the measure - The man steps forward with his right foot, in front of his left foot. The woman steps backward with her left foot, behind her right foot.

6th beat of the measure - The man steps farther forward with his left foot, then changes direction, starting to lean backward with his body = "breaks back on 6". The woman steps farther back with her right foot, then changes direction, starting to lean forward = "breaks forward on 6".

7th beat of the measure - The man steps in place with his right foot, while his body is moving backward. The woman steps in place with her left foot, while her body is moving forward.

8th beat of the measure - No steps.

Technically, it is proper to start the dance in the following way: You walk onto the dance floor with your partner, set up the standard partner position frame, and then begin on the 6th beat of the measure, with the man stepping forward with his left foot and the woman stepping back with her right. On the 7th beat, the couple changes direction, with the man rocking back onto his right foot and the woman rocking forward onto her left foot. They then go right into the basic step pattern which is maintained through the rest of the song: the man's left foot goes back and the woman's right foot goes forward on the 1st beat of the measure, and the pattern continues as described above in detail. Although this is technically the proper way to start, most New York dancers simply begin on the 1st beat of the measure as described above, sometimes not even setting up the partner position first.