Is it possible to make a living from dance?

[Lee Bartholomew]

Plus there are 4 well established operators in Lees target catchment area - Hastings, Bexhill, Eastbourne, Battle, Rye. Although only one of them promotes "Smooth Jive" - out of the other three one is "Latin Style Jive" and the other two "LeRoc MJ". Three of these teachers are also LeRoc Federation Members.

Two members.

The Smooth Jive operator makes her living from MJ and has 3-4 venues and is very well known locally and nationally.

I would not call what is taught there Smooth Jive. Case of jumping on a bandwagon. I would also say that person is not that well known nationally. I reckon 90% of the forum has not heard of her

I trust he will let us know how many dancers he gets at his new venue tonight... I sadly am unable to make it as I am off to the other Smooth Jive operator this week as they have a "Name" there.... I wonder if that operator got a wiff of Lees opening night tonight??????

Of course they knew. Had around 15 in which is the rough number was hoping for. Got alot of calls and emails from people saying that they couldn't make the first week and asking if it mattered if they made the first one.

Almost all of the people that came were new to dance which I think is a good thing.

I think the max can get in the hall is 100. Would be happy to build up 5 people a week. Gives me a chance to iron out teething problems (like wireless mic dying ) and to get some people up to scratch. Also a little rusty on the teaching front so good to build up slowly.


Think the only way to make a living from dance is to have around 10 odd venues. Advertising is alot and prob the biggest outlay. Needs to be spread.

[SPROGGS]

Two members.

Sorry...It's Three - check their Websites.

BTW the relocation of one of them to Battle...on his first night he had 112....

15 is not a bad start though. Bet it was hard work with 15 beginners!

SPROGGS

[Lee Bartholomew]

Sorry...It's Three - check their Websites.

BTW the relocation of one of them to Battle...on his first night he had 112....

15 is not a bad start though. Bet it was hard work with 15 beginners!

SPROGGS

MMmm According to their websites it's three, maybe Leroc fed don't know about one of them Affiliated members of the LeRoc Federation

The Battle opening night was of an already established club though that has been going years at another venue. It's building it from scratch without the support of the other venue operators that is the problem. I will get there with numbers. Softly softly, catchy monkey (or something)

[Minnie M]

Is it possible to make a living from dance?

Ask again in 2 years time

[Lee Bartholomew]

Is it possible to make a living from dance?

Ask again in 2 years time

What are you up to MM?

[bigdjiver]

I wonder how many forumites would invest in a dance business or venue?
Would it be possible to run a venue as a member owned cooperative?
Could we learn anything from working mens clubs?

[Minnie M]

What are you up to MM?

I must be careful what I write on here ..........

My cryptic comment was misread - a few people have PM'd me on this with the same thought

No, not starting anything myself - what I meant, if you can survive two years in profit you can start thinking about giving up your day job

I am quite happy enjoying dancing and doing my list.

[philsmove]

I asked a similar question 30 years ago about a passion of mine

Could I make a living out of flying Hot Air Balloons?

30 years later I can give you an answer

The answer is no, but you can have a lot of fun trying

Running your own business is not easy but it does has its rewards

One word of warning, in turning your hobby into a business you lose your hobby

I no longer fly balloons for fun, my “hobby” is dancing and I would never dream of turning it into a business

Good luck.

[Gus]

I wonder how many forumites would invest in a dance business or venue?
Would it be possible to run a venue as a member owned cooperative?
Could we learn anything from working mens clubs?

There is a group round here who operate as a cooperative (I think), Mottram Jive. Nice venues, friendly people ... dancing is nothing special but its there for the masses rather than the superstars. Quite a success story methinks.

Re making a living from it ... well, I think it depends if you follow all the legal and tax requirements properly. To make a net income (salary) of about 30k you'd need to have a turnover of about 60k .... with that level of business you then have to charge VAT as well as the standard niggles of insurances, employing your staff, paying NI etc. Once you have to pay VAT I think that the current model doesn't work .... as taking 17.5% off your income effectively removes your profit margin.

I must admit I'm unclear as to how the bigger operators manage to get round this. I think that if you teach all the lessons yourself it counts as 'educational' and is therefore VAT exempt (or zero-rated?) but as soon as you use someone else that all goes out the window .... but I'm 10 years out of date on VAT. Anyone got a better view on this thorny subject?

[philsmove]

you'd need to have a turnover of about 60k .... with that level of business you then have to charge VAT........ but I'm 10 years out of date on VAT.

The current VAT threshold 67K

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...08650#P25_1931

[Gadget]

I must admit I'm unclear as to how the bigger operators manage to get round this. I think that if you teach all the lessons yourself it counts as 'educational' and is therefore VAT exempt (or zero-rated?) but as soon as you use someone else that all goes out the window .... but I'm 10 years out of date on VAT. Anyone got a better view on this thorny subject?

Don't know, but I figured that they all were "self employed"... just that Ceroc won't hire you if you work for anyone else as well. :shrug: Isn't there some sort of tax thingie for using other companies (as someone self-employed is classed as)?

[Steven666]

Isn't there some sort of tax thingie for using other companies

Associate companies divide the limits set for corporation tax. For example a Limited company:

First £300,000 - 21% Corporation tax
Next £1,200,000 - 29.75% Corporation tax
Over £1,500,000 - 28% Corporation tax

If there is a associate company, then those limits are divided by the number of companies in total. So if there are 2 other associate companies meaning three companies in total then you'll be paying tax at 28% on profits over £500,000 instead of £1,500,000 and so forth.

As what an associate company is, that will take far too long to explain. Though simply it's when the same person or connected persons own more than one business. What is a connected person...this could go on...but I'll stop!

And of course, Ceroc venues are franchises...

(as someone self-employed is classed as)?

Not sure what you mean. Self employed people are taxed on their profits. It doesn't really matter if they run one business or twenty.

Anyways, not looked into it but is Ceroc a Limited company?

[Martin]

Bit of a woolly thread title, but hey-ho....it just struck me as someone who spends a lot of time on this forum, that there a lot of people on here for whom dancing is their absolute passion, and that their daytime job is a just a means to an end.

So what I want to know is, how many people on here derive their sole income through dance-related activities? Is it actually possible to make a living doing this? Also how many of you, if given the chance, would actually want to make this hobby your livelihood? I ask because the other night, it occurred to me that I'd whinge for Britain if I was required as part of my current job to attend a venue from 7.30pm-11pm three nights a week, but I don't mind doing it when it's voluntary and something I greatly enjoy.

Perhaps it's best summed up in that quote from Mark Twain: "Work consists of whatever a body is OBLIGED to do, and that Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do"...what does everyone else think?

Yes you can make a living out of teaching dance, and many people do.

In 1996/1997 I ran dance classes etc. in the UK and made 35k net per annum. I also kept my daytime job, which gave me 65k, and I lived off property investing as well... but of course if I wanted, I could have given up the day job, and lived reasonably. (even if I did not have multiple properties)

So in summary, I could have lived off just dance (and for some, 35k would be an ok wage), and I know many who just live from teaching dance.

[bigdjiver]

...Anyways, not looked into it but is Ceroc a Limited company?

I believe most of the franchises are limited companies, and there is one that trades as Ceroc-UK Ltd.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Just given up the day job (but started PT web design from home)