Open Jive Championships 2003 - Blackpool

[Will]

Everyone,

I was just wondering, as someone who dances in London and so doesn't know many of you, who is planning to go the Open Jive Championships run by Chance2Dance in Blackpool on 1st March?

I would have thought that due to its location it should have a fair few people from both London and Scotland. For those of you who don't know about it, it is (I'm told) 2nd only to The Ceroc National Championships in terms of size and prestige.

I'm really looking forward to it, and hopefully to putting names to faces of people who post here.

(I'm sure you'll all be buzzing and gagging for another big Competition after the Scottish Champs this weekend - Best of luck to everyone by the way)

[Gus]

Originally posted by Will
Everyone,
For those of you who don't know about it, it is (I'm told) 2nd only to The Ceroc National Championships in terms of size and prestige.

Sorry Will but its second to NONE, especialy Ceroc Champs. The Ceroc Champs don't allow teachers to enter ... and there is some latent ill feeling to Ceroc London ... hence all the better dancers are at Blackpool. Also, the panel of judges is without compare, not just restricted to Ceroc teachers.

Personal view only of course

[Will]

Well I've not been to blackpool yet, but I am so looking forward to it next year. I guess I'll be able to make up my own mind then.

I know Ceroc don't allow teachers to enter which I think is a shame, but it isn't like all those ceroc teachers then go and dance in Bristol or Blackpool (or am I wrong about that?). I can't comment on the judges, but as far as I could make out, Ceroc had the strongest line of competitors, ie. James & Hayley, Ray & Sophie, Clayton & Janine. (of course at the end of the day that's just my opinion and it is very subjective)

As for this latent anti-ceroc London feeling, I can't comment on it as I don't really know what it is about, but I do occassionally come across Anti-Ceroc feeling in general that really feels like it's based on envy which I think is very unfortunate. Ceroc & other dance organisations all make business for one another (I am living proof of that!), so it seems futile for them to start slagging each other off.

Now donning my flame-proof jacket.

[Ste]

Will

I saw the videos for Blackpool and Hammersmith 2002 , certainly intermediate competition and my recollection was that Blackpool was higher standard.

Overall I agree that Ceroc has helpd to create business for the other movements. I only went to other jive organisation events because of starting off at Ceroc.

I think one of the gripes is that Ceroc does not seem to promote other organisations whereas other organisations do promote each other ( remember all the bumph on one of the desks at Bristol Leroc?)....but then you have to remember that Ceroc is very much quality control quality control quality control. That's one of the reasons why if you go to Ceroc with an open mind ( and you aren't upset about something in your personal life etc ) you are almost guaranteed a good night. I have usually gone to say Fulham wondering if I am doing the right thing and after getting there, am really glad that I went.

How many people actually go to Blackpool?

By the way what is the Blitz organisation like? Does anyone here dance on Merseyside? Does anyone here do Latin American Ballroom?Whoops thats changing the subject...sorry.

[DavidB]

(I've never competed at either, and have never had the chance to go to the Blackpool comp, so this is more an impression based on what other people tell me.) From talking to competitors, Blackpool has the better reputation. It seems to be run more as a competition, and is the one that people would want to go back to and defend their title. (The Ceroc comp unfortunately has a reputation for this not being possible). For spectators, both events seem to have a good party atmosphere, plenty of dancing, and a good show.

There has been anti-Ceroc sentiment for years. Ceroc have never helped themselves in the way they get on with other dance styles, teachers and organisations. They appear to have a belief that their teacher selection and training guarantees excellence - whereas it just gives consistency. Ceroc haven't provided any leadership in developing Jive - there is little difference between what people do now, and what they did 10 years ago. There are just new moves and new music. And there are a lot of ex-Ceroc teachers around that have 'issues' with Ceroc HQ.

However a lot of people appreciate that Ceroc are responsible for more people dancing Jive in the UK than any other organisation. They do provide a standard that you can judge against, and you always know what to expect when you go to a Ceroc night. If I'm going somewhere different for any reason, I'll always look for a Ceroc night...

Comparisons between Ceroc and Microsoft are quite valid. Both supply a product that may not be the absolute best, but is good enough, and more importantly is what people want. And both are successful businesses.

David

[Bill]

Originally posted by DavidB
(I've never competed at either, and have never had the chance to go to the Blackpool comp, so this is more an impression based on what other people tell me.) .

I've been to both and I have to say.though this may be disloyal, that I prefer Blackpool for several reasons.one being the size of the venue. The Ceroc venue is too small for the number of people who attend. Freestyle has become a nightmare and indeed pretty dangerous and spectating is difficult so a good view is limited. In Blackpool it's possible to get a good 'ring side' seat at a table with friends and there's plenty of room to dance.

Although Gus has mentioned that the judges are more experienced and are on the whole respected dancers in their own right my main concern on this score is that there is a small 'fraternity' amongst the 'best' dancers ( or the most competitive ?) and the judges tend to know virtually everyone who gets to the final - indeed some of the judges will have helped teach or develop some of the competitors so there may be a charge in some quarters of bias/nepotism ???? :eek. Even if this is unfounded it could be difficult to refute completely.

Comparisons between Ceroc and Microsoft are quite valid. Both supply a product that may not be the absolute best, but is good enough, and more importantly is what people want. And both are successful businesses.

David

Agreed. All of us who have been through the Ceroc classes owe a huge debt to Ceroc for getting us started and whatever our gripes might be we still attend and enjoy the nigths and the parties. Thousands of people have benefited from Ceroc - friendships formed, relationships developed and a lot of fun been had so thanks to Ceroc...but like Microsoft it isn't the only product on the market and a little competition is not a bad thing.

[Franck]

Originally posted by DavidB
Comparisons between Ceroc and Microsoft are quite valid. Both supply a product that may not be the absolute best, but is good enough, and more importantly is what people want. And both are successful businesses.

Ouch David, that really hurts As an Apple man myself, being compared to Microsoft is the biggest insult you could lay at my door! I get comfort from the fact that Ceroc is in the business of making people happy and realise their potential (rather than make people's life a misery in the case of Microsoft )
I take your point though, and indeed agree with most of what you said. The Ceroc Champs is a brilliant event and I love the buzz there every year, but it is let down badly by the venue. I have heard rumours of a possible change of venue for 2003, so let's keep our fingers crossed!
Re. our attitude to other (competing?) organizations, we have been guilty of that in the past, but I have to say, that usually we have stayed clear of the under-hand tactics used by the competition As you and a few other have mentioned, dancing is a business whether we like it or not, and everyone struggles for survival! It is not easy to start and maintain a successful night (though it might appear that way once a night is established).
Times are changing though, and there is a much more open attitude generally. As you say, Ceroc like to focus on quality control, and in the past, a lot of other (so-called) modern jive organization, were no more than a guy (or girl) who thought they could teach because they were reasonably popular dancers
As the Modern-Jive scene is maturing, the "Cow-boys" are being weeded out in favour of really good alternatives, and starting with that forum, I would hope we could all live together happily and, as Will said, we all make business for each other!

Franck.

[Franck]

Originally posted by bill foreman
All of us who have been through the Ceroc classes owe a huge debt to Ceroc for getting us started and whatever our gripes might be we still attend and enjoy the nigths and the parties. Thousands of people have benefited from Ceroc - friendships formed, relationships developed and a lot of fun been had so thanks to Ceroc...

I would like to add to that. Ceroc is also one of the few organisations who have the will, clout and supporting structure to open in new territories. When Ceroc started to become successfull in Scotland, I once vowed that I would get the whole of Scotland dancing, and I am slowly getting there.
Once we have opened a successful night, and therefore created a market for dance classes, other organizations latch on and provide alternatives and choice, but often, Ceroc will have been there first.

Franck.

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Franck
Ouch David, that really hurts As an Apple man myself, being compared to Microsoft is the biggest insult you could lay at my door!

The alternative was McDonalds...

[Franck]

Originally posted by DavidB
The alternative was McDonalds...

and I thought you were a nice man too
It is great to be seen to be as successful as the afore-mentionned companies, but, we are nowhere near as successful as Microsoft or McDonalds (I wish!), though what we offer is miles better and will improve your life!

Franck.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Franck
Ouch David, that really hurts As an Apple man myself, being compared to Microsoft is the biggest insult you could lay at my door!

Frank ... there is no comparison between Ceroc HQ/Londno and Ceroc Scotland ..... Ceroc Scotland seems to me to have followed the original principles of Ceroc .. a dance for all. Over the last three months I've trogged up to Scotland three times because its a joy to be at your clubs. Getting to London is far easier for me but I would never contemplate traveling down there just to dance at a Ceroc venue.

Personal view of course

[Gus]

Originally posted by Will
I can't comment on the judges, but as far as I could make out, Ceroc had the strongest line of competitors, ie. James & Hayley, Ray & Sophie, Clayton & Janine. (of course at the end of the day that's just my opinion and it is very subjective)

Sorry Will but;

a) Clayon and Janine and Ray were at Blackpool

b) youre doing a great disservice to the Blitz, LeRoc and independant instructors and some of my own dancers who are on a level with the dancers who you've mentioned (and in fact who have beaten some of them in the past).

[sexyjiver]

Ste

Ceroc used to have a very strong representation in the North West of England. The franchise was held by Marc Almond, who decided to change all the Ceroc venues to Blitz. So Blitz is Ceroc with a swing twist. I have been Cerocing at Blitz venues for about 6 years, but always hope Ceroc will return soon. Blitz have a venue on Merseyside ish, at Bromborough on the Wirral. Octel Club.

Jonathan

[Dreadful Scathe]

Well, Im about to go to Ceroc in Bracknell - wonder if its any good

[Gus]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Well, Im about to go to Ceroc in Bracknell - wonder if its any good

Well ... how was it?

I've had the pleasure of dancing at a few venues west of London and so far found them to be of a high standard and pretty friendly. Especialy liked Annalise's venues, but them again I'm baised ... wonderfull person, great DJ and nice teacher .. what more could you want?

[Dreadful Scathe]

See my other thread Dodgy Ceroc Website
- it wasn't Ceroc but i was still good, quite a few really good dancers there. i really should take dance shoes with me - these 'normal' shoes are too wide I was far worse than normal :/

best venue Ive been to is probably cricklewood in London. Only time Ive been totally confused by an intermediate class and fantastic standard of dancing there

[TheTramp]

Franck ... there is no comparison between Ceroc HQ/London and Ceroc Scotland ..... Ceroc Scotland seems to me to have followed the original principles of Ceroc .. a dance for all. Over the last three months I've trogged up to Scotland three times because its a joy to be at your clubs. Getting to London is far easier for me but I would never contemplate traveling down there just to dance at a Ceroc venue.

Can I just say how much I agree with this. Not so surprisingly Will be up in Scotland again very soon

Steve

[Gus]

Forgotten all about this thread.

So ... who's going. after having had the entry forms for a few months foinally got round to filling them in and entering. Just as well, heard that all sections are busy .... even the Advanced, rumour that they may have to limit entrants into this category!! If so thats a great sign that people are feeling confident enough to give the 'big time' a crack ...... should be a really open contest.

Having said that, I think that the main people who benefit are the causal dancers who enter the Dance With a Stranger and at a push go in for the intermediate just for a laugh. Its a chance to meet dancers from all over the UK with a wide range of ability and styles. Its also a great place to see some of the best dnacers in the UK. Last year I was quite happy to spend over half and hour up on the balcony floor just watching the dancefloor ... great dancing and great music.

So ... see ya there?

[TheTramp]

'Fraid I'll be there.

Will possibly be entering showcase, although, since we haven't started working out the routine yet, I'm not convinced. We'll possibly be a late entry, if there's spaces left.

Apart from that, I'll do DWAS I think. But will still be there to watch everything, and hopefully to get lots of freestyle dances. Having not really enjoyed it last year (it was a fab event, it was me who wasn't really up for it), I'm hoping that it's going to be great in 2003.

Steve

[Gus]

So ... whos going to the MAIN competition of the year (IMHO) All those who went last year had a cracking time and got to see the best dancers in the UK .... with no restrictions for the advanced section.